StrangeSox

ha YHF went through a big, convoluted process before it was released. It was finished in 2000 or early 2001 I think, but the record company wouldn't release it for some reason so Wilco eventually had to buy the rights for it. I found this Greg Kot article circa 2001 describing the fallout prior to the album's release http://web.archive.org/web/20010826133635/...chi-leisure-hed

Didn't he emphatically state that no NFL executive had seen the tape before it was released by TMZ?

I can't believe how stupidly they've handled this thing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) Oh but guys got hurt and Marshall fumbled and Conte sucks and blah blah blah. So many f'n excuses for this guy. I'm sorry, isn't the weapons around Cutler sort of the key to your argument? I would think both of his WR weapons going out for a period and one of them making a costly fumble would be relevant.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) In a full season McCown isn't going to be the best QB in the league and have the run that he did. But I think he'd be just as good as Cutler in terms of winning games. McCown never LOST games with his play. He might not WIN them either. But with the weapons the Bears have, I dunno that a QB really needs to. Just be smart with the ball and let your play makers make the plays. With the defense and ST the Bears have, they need an explosive offense. How many NFL teams have explosive offenses with a mediocre "won't lose but can't win the game" QB's?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) 5 seasons isn't a small sample size. And 6 games for McCown and 10 games for Cutler isn't insignificant either when you're comparing how the two played in the same offense. The fact that McCown could come off the street and dominate but Cutler didn't is pretty telling. And the fact that people keep giving him excuses is bordering on pathetic these days. I was referring to McCown having a small sample size. McCown's performance in a limited number of games last year that was well outside anything he has done before or since isn't exactly strong evidence on Cutler, but I have zero interest in having this argument again.

don't draw strong conclusions from small sample sizes?

not sure McCown is a great point of comparison right now

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 07:45 AM) We want to think of 16 year olds as having the mental development of adults all the time, but there's plenty of evidence that says they don't. IIRC it's something like 22 or 24 before your brain is fully developed, particularly the risk-assessment part.

Luol Deng Responds To Hawks GM Danny Ferry's "African" Remark

Awesome

Jay is substantially better than "tall Rex Grossman." He's just not at the Rodgers-Manning level.

/gets into three-point stance

After sunday's game, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that Cutler is a good-not-great QB and that he probably won't be winning a SB without a stellar defense able to cover up for some of his inevitable mistakes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) So what does this mean, exactly? Yeah, it implicitly places some of the blame on the victim.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) So if this was, say, a woman bodybuilder, who had slugged her boyfriend, do you think there would be anywhere near the same reaction? Assuming for the sake of argument that she was as prominent as Ray Rice, no, but that says more about sexist views of domestic abuse that harm both men and women than anything. He'd probably be told to suck it up, take it like a man, stop being a p**** etc.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) It ends up being an assault charge that takes a year to get to a trial (if he doesn't get a plea deal), for which he spends a night in jail, probably pays a big fine and gets some community service and probation. I'm sure a civil suit gets filed and he pays the guy to go away. There's a zero percent chance that, as a first time offender in the league, he's suspended for a game or cut from the team. Zero chance. I agree that the NFL's penalties follow no logical pattern.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) Lol, no man. Not at all. Drunken bar fights happen nightly and people RARELY spend any time in jail for it. This wasn't a fight, though.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) Worse in the sense that he might have gone to jail for a night, but there's no way in hell he's losing his career. These guys punch each other in games with no fines or suspensions. If he had knocked out some random guy or girl in the elevator, I'm not sure that the prosecutors let him slide with a treatment program instead of going for 3rd degree aggravated assault like they originally charged.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) 25% serious. I think hitting a woman is terrible and much worse, but I do wonder why it's SO much worse than hitting a man. There's an implicit "women are inferior and need protecting" subtext there. I think it's more "knowledge of how DV situations usually play out," but it should be noted that men can and do suffer from emotional and psychological abuse as well.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:56 PM) Not really that ironic. Most people dont get charged with crimes for 1 single incident, especially if the victim doesnt really want the charges pressed. He had to enter a plea deal, which is what would be the likely outcome for most people given the same circumstances. Most people would get a slap on the wrist for knocking their partner out?

Metallica Master of Puppets 24/7 for the first 3 months is scientifically proven to result in a smarter, stronger, well-adjusted child.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed." You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals. This is kinda ironic though since the police/prosecutors decided to sweep it all under the rug, too. He's not getting a trial, he's able to walk away a free man without ever being charged.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it". That seems to be logical and an appropriate response. Plenty of people are strongly criticizing Rice, the NFL and the Ravens?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute". Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts. /shrugs You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished". Lynch mobs arent my thing. Strangesox, Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy. It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice. I was laughing at the overall tone of your post, especially the last line, because it's funny. I've already said I don't necessarily agree that a DV conviction (or an incident like this that clearly should have led to one) should generally get you barred from future employment opportunities. Given the very public nature of the NFL, things are different in this case because you have teams/the league with legitimate PR concerns. It's comparable to some random mid-level manager getting charged for animal abuse versus a CEO; the CEO is the public face of the company and draws a lot of negative attention when he does that, whereas some random employee no one ever hears about and is never connected to his employer doesn't. The NFL and the Ravens "investigated" when it happened, and tried to quickly sweep it under the rug with a short suspension. They were pretty widely criticized for that at the time. When the video leaked, lots of people were shocked by just how violent and brutal the assault actually was. The NFL and the Ravens then flailed some more and jumped to cutting him and an indefinite ban. They look pretty bad in this situation, and I somewhat agree with jenks that the NFL issuing a weak suspension, then announcing a new policy in response to the backlash over the weak suspension, then going above and beyond their new policy when a video that they're probably already seen becomes public is kinda bulls*** on their part. I don't see where Rice's rights are being violated, though. I don't like it, but almost all of us work at-will. Rice was cut from a contract, which the Ravens have every right to do at any time for almost any reason. He doesn't have a right to play in the NFL. As far as due process goes, I don't see how anything could ever legitimize what's so clear in that video, so there's not much there.