iamshack

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:33 PM) I think teams are going to be reluctant to give up the farm for a RF with a sub 800 Ops despite the his WAR, especially when he doesn't have any truly stand out tools. In the same way, teams will be reluctant to give up the farm for Q because his stuff doesn't wow you, despite the consistent results Think this is spot-on.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) At the time it would have been very difficult to not select Rodon and watch the Cubs select him right after you. He was the right pick at the time and still can prove to be a quality starter Absolutely.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Morosi knows nothing. I keep seeing this. He was actually Rosenthal's understudy. He has many of the same sources.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) Soooooo you'd probably have to say his development trajectory is ahead of the other 2 then. In your words, of course. No.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) And if the Sox would have selected Schwarber or Turner, a lot of good they would have done the team too. The point is a better measurement of who the White Sox would rather have at this point is what it appears these players will do moving forward, not what they've done in previous meaningless seasons. Let me be absolutely clear: I like Carlos; he was absolutely a good draft pick. He did take a nice step forward last year, and this despite poor pitch framing. I honestly expected more out of him last year though, to be frank. If I had to do it over again, would I do it differently? Yes, I'd take Turner. None of the foregoing means I don't like Carlos or that the choice was a bad one.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Development trajectories? Wtf does that even mean? fWAR tells us Rodon has been the most valuable of the 3 thus far. It means Carlos has played the most in the MLB thus far, in this case.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) Typical White Sox fan response. He has 5 years of control, and was starting to come into his own last season. But ignore it. He was a horrible draft pick. Schwarbs was so much better. Even though he didn't play in 2016. If you seriously have a problem with the White Sox drafting Carlos Rodon, you will probably be disappointed almost every draft. I doubt any team has actually drafted the guy that turned into the best player on the board when they drafted every pick. Rodon is solid. If he is capable of a $200 million contract you apparently like his talent. I basically said none of this, but whatever keeps you happy, Dick.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) I'll give you a few guesses which of the 3 has accumulated the most fWAR since that draft. A lot of good his fWAR has done us, too! I'm saying if you're going off of their development trajectories since draft day, I suspect the order might switch.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) LMAO. The book is still out on everyone. Schwarber has 8 career hits vs. LHP and appears to be a DH. And by the time Carlos comes into his own he'll be due $200 million.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) I would think Sox fans would be happy with Rodon. He is pretty good. The book is still out on Carlos. As of right now, both Turner and Schwarbs are the better picks.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) Yeah, one thing I'm keeping in mind is all of Boston/Houston/Washington have huge incentive to leak to media that their untouchable is not available, they don't want to be in that bidding war when the Sox call and say "HOU just offered Bregman, do you want an opportunity to top it?" Yeah, I was just thinking how much it's almost bordering on collusion.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) It takes a lot of trust to take the time to build a major deal that includes a guy like Chris Sale, maybe even to the detriment of other deals. If you have in mind that the guy across the table is maybe jerking you around, do you still get there? Seems like human nature to me. Well, if nothing else good comes from it, hopefully it helps to create more perceived value for Sale.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) After what happened between the two teams a few years back, I wonder if a deal for Sale is even possible, let alone a mega deal. Yeah, I've seen you referencing this, but hopefully they can let bygones be bygones. It is in each of their best interests to work together.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) That proposal hugely undervalues Eaton, who posted a 6.23 WAR this season and has average 5 WAR the past three seasons. Turner looks like a great prospect, but the White Sox would be giving up way too much by including him in negotiations On his own, an Eaton package would likely have to start with Giolito/Lopez and Robles plus another good prospect or two Maybe so, but I think if you want Turner plus 2 or 3 of their remaining top guys I think you're dreaming. As I said, this is the middle ground.

Here's how I see it...there is a gap in the valuation of a guy like Turner in that one side sees 6 years of control of an all-star-caliber player as being worth more than Sale alone and the other side that says "I need to see a LOT more before I'm buying that." The Nats feel Sale may be worth Turner or Turner and something very marginal. The Sox say give me Turner plus 2-3 other top 25 in the MLB guys. This gap needs to be bridged. The way you do it is to bring back another guy from the Sox who has a lot of "projected value," in Eaton. That way the Nats can sell him as the replacement for losing Turner while also bringing back Sale. The White Sox capture an MLB-ready star to appease their fans as well as adding the depth and talent to their farm system necessary for a rebuild. Hell, I'd even throw in Robertson for another one of their top 15 guys. Sale/Eaton/Robertson for Turner/Giolito/Robles + 2 more top 10 and 2 top 20 prospects.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) Rizzo "Give me Adam" is way beyond a throw in to help offset a deal haha, it's a completely different trade negotiation. Eaton is under contract for what amounts to pennies: 2017 28 Chicago White Sox $4,000,000 4.030 2018 29 Chicago White Sox $6,000,000 2019 30 Chicago White Sox $8,400,000 2020 31 Chicago White Sox *$9,500,000 $9.5M Team Option, $1.5M Buyout 2021 32 Chicago White Sox *$10,500,000 $10.5M Team Option, $1.5M Buyout Earliest Free Agent: 2020 He is in his prime as well. Eaton would like require Giolito and Robles (I've read internally the Nationals consider Lopez to have surpassed Giolito in the pecking order) I know he is...of course the Nats are going to try and throw him in. But he might just be what it takes to get them to move off the stalemate. Given what we think of Adam's value, I wouldn't be opposed to using him that way.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) Yes it's doubtful. Discussed earlier how I thought Eaton could justify Giolito Robles themselves. However, I will say it depends on how much your scouts think of turner. If this truly is an opportunity to get a talent like that unlikely to be matched, maybe you do spend more. I think it goes a little something like this: Hahn - "Mike, you can offer Giolito and Robles all day long, but I've got to have Turner." Rizzo - "If I'm giving up Turner, I can't give you Giolito OR Robles...and I'm not even sure I can get a sign off on Turner, to be honest." Hahn - "You know our suite #, Mike." Rizzo - "Rick, you've got to help me offset Turner if I'm going to move him..." Hahn - "What about Melky?" Rizzo - "Come on Rick. I need someone who will be here for at least a couple years. Give me Adam." Hahn - Eaton is not off the table, but then I'm going to need Turner and your top 3-4 guys, Mike."

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) Not sure that is possible. Turner, Giolito, Robles, Lopez, Ross, Cole, Kieboom, Nuese, Stevenson, and Severino? So basically Turner, Giolito, Cole, Nuese and Severino for Sale. Robles, Lopez, Ross, Kieboom and Stevenson for Eaton. It's easily possible with Turner included.

QUOTE (Username @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:11 AM) Rizzo on MLB network now and just basically said Turner isn't untouchable. Before I get anyone's hopes up he also said they're planning on having him for the future... But he said something to the extent of "that's not to say there isn't a trade out there that would require him in a deal" Would still be shocked to see him traded but interesting nonetheless. I smell a mega deal for Sale and Eaton...

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 08:04 PM) I don't think the HRs are legit, but the rest of his game appears to be. We're talking about a potential All-Star SS or CF and it could happen in the very near future. I would expect some regression/struggles next year, which is the only reason they may consider trading him, but personally I think his ceiling & floor are both too high to move. I think All-Star is an understatement...the numbers he put up last year are HOF type numbers. Obviously I get it's just a half season, but that kind of speed and power, along with that type of batting average is pretty unheard of. Say he comes down to earth and becomes a 12-18 homer guy...if he hits .315 with 40-50 SB for the next several years...that's Rickey Henderson-esque.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 07:30 PM) All depends if they're willing to give up Turner, which I seriously doubt. Question for you...obviously TT had a hell of a half-season, but what do we think his ceiling really is? Is he really the kind of player he showed himself to be last year in 73 games?

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) I just booked my annual trip to Vegas for March Madness, I'll be over there March 23-26 Shack Looking forward to it, Russ!

A lot of sources had EE going to the Stros.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:58 PM) Alright, this is gonna be the final time I reply to this thread. I don't care how many ABs he's had in the Majors. Half of them should have been in the Minors to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, he has 413 AB (2016) while he's actually tried a swing that isn't complete horse s***. His old swing was not conducive to any type of hard contact or power. While still inconsistent, look at he video on youtube of him in 2016. Throw the numbers out the window and forget his name is Avisail Garcia. I guarantee you'll love what you see in the admittedly few highlights I'm referring to. He's a finished product? Really? I'm simply saying to give up on a 25 year old who, BTW, heavily improved his exit velocities and launch angles in 2016, ya know, this past season, is not wise - just because you hate what you have seen so far. Keep an open mind dude. My original point which has been taken way out of context by a few of you guys. Our team is disgusting as it currently stands. The addition of Avi as a DH strictly, is not going to hurt a supposed rebuilding and otherwise trash team, until you have legitimate replacements. You guys would rather see 27 year old Coats at DH, who in my opinion is a AAAA player? Just like your opinion is that Avi is a AAAA player. Delmonico is the only other decent DH option you guys have come up with - as the roster currently stands. 1 WAR = an 8 million dollar salary in the current MLB marketplace. Avisail Garcia just got paid 3 million dollars. He got paid what he's been worth thus far. This move doesn't break the bank and it isn't taking the DH spot away from some super talented prospect. Maybe time will prove me wrong, maybe it'll prove you guys wrong, maybe it'll prove all of us wrong. Rymer Liriano has been the most talented guy mentioned in this thread, and I'd rather see him in LF than at DH. Until we get better options, yes, I personally would rather see more of Avisail Garcia than the other equally illegitimate options we have at DH. If we get AJ Reed or someone of the like, cool, get rid of Avi with 0 complaints from me. This is the American League. We won't have a rotating DH spot until we have enough talent on the roster to rotate, which we're not even close to having enough. It's about where we currently are as an organization, not that I think Avi is going to for sure become a stud all of a sudden. If we were still "going for it" I would have my pitchfork out too. The likely and worst-case scenario is that he still sucks and costs the Sox 3 million. I'm not delusional - I'm simply not red hot angry like many posters here at the prospect of signing such a player for 3 million dollars, because they hate him or have "seen enough". Enough with the crucifixion of someone for having an opinion that differs from yours. Yeah, I mean he's not well-liked here because of all the physical tools he has. He's a cocktease just like Dayan. But I smell what you're stepping in, and I don't see the big issue with giving him another shot this year, especially IF this is a rebuilding/development year.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:19 PM) Old swing. His hands are not in a position to explode on the baseball. New swing August 2016 Yeah, I get it. Did he struggle to stick with it when he struggled in September?