iamshack

The response to the Thornburg trade was "And powwow" (or whatever his handle is) strikes again! Apparently that wasn't the first deal he's scooped.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:54 AM) https://twitter.com/MarkZuckerman/status/806116929975058432 @MarkZuckerman #Nats have made their offer, now waiting for #WhiteSox to take it or leave it. Didn't see this in here. The Nats leak.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:29 AM) I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats. You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position. Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out. Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA. I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team. I honestly prefer the Nats package over the Red Sox package. I really want Devers if we do the Red Sox trade.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) If Boston would rather move Moncada than Benintendi, that's fine. Moncada was a higher ranked prospect for a long time and has more upside IMO, though he also has much more risk. He's definitely a worthy centerpiece in a Sale trade...much more so than Giolito or Robles. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but why?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better. There is not much of a history for us moving valuable mlb pieces. We've done ok with the pieces we have sold off recently. I think we'll do fine here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) Having a bad taste in your mouth about the front office is understandable. But at the same time, there is a ton of fire out there that shows they are doing exactly what everyone wants them to be doing. They are asking for the sun, but working to get the moon and Mars instead. I, for one, have confidence in the FO to do this. I don't necessarily blame them for holding out, either. In regards to my comments about Turner, I am just reading the tea leaves here. I truly think if the main two pieces from the Nats were agreed to, this would have continued to pick up steam last night.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:06 AM) But at the same time, if you're the White Sox and you're trading Chris Sale, you just can't settle. Either you get your guy (Turner) or you hold on to Sale/trade him elsewhere. Someone will bite eventually. If they don't (unlikely), then we have a HOF-caliber pitcher on our team. Yeah, but Sale's value can't necessarily be based on one anomalous precedent. You've got to look at a variety of things, which admittedly, are quite limited, which is partially why this is not a simple transaction.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:01 AM) I've been thinking about it. Are you guys as pissed about this bull s*** as I am? I don't care that Giolito and Robles are highly ranked. Why is Chris Sale getting an equal or possibly worse return than Shelby f***ing Miller? I do agree with others that we need to let go of the Shelby Miller thing.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:49 AM) We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread. I smell what you're stepping in but I just don't think it reflects the belief of our own FO.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:29 AM) I think the Nationals package is better and it's not close. Giolito/Robles >>>> than Devers/Kopech. Fair enough...perhaps the Nationals' package would need to be adjusted downwards, but the point remains, which has not been addressed... If the framework was truly agreed upon, this thing would be done or close to done. There is no indication of that, which to me, indicates that the Sox are still unwilling to move Sale without someone that has shown success in the major leagues.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:12 AM) 100% agree. Sox are pushing for as many of those second tier prospects, while floating some version of the Nationals offer to Boston & Houston in hopes of one of them topping. Washington giving up Turner is simply counterproductive to adding Sale. Their goal is maximize their two year window with Harper and Tuner is an important part of that. Not sure if it was you, or another poster, but someone pointed out Sale's value in the postseason as something that goes well beyond his in-season WAR. If you know you have to take down the Cubs, who is more important in the postseason, Sale or Turner? Decisions...

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:02 AM) You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package.... My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners. All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix. I don't disagree with you about Turner, I'm just saying I think Hahn and Co are holding out for Turner still. I think if the discussion was about the remaining prospects, and Giolito and Robles were agreed upon, they would have been hammering this thing out last night. The absence of rumors overnight suggests that did not happen. Not quite sure there is as big of a difference between Turner's perceived value and Benintendi's, but you certainly seem to feel as though Benintendi is a possible get while Turner is not. Is there really a huge difference between a package of Benintendi/Devers/Kopech and Turner/Giolito/Robles? I'd take the latter, but I think some here would choose the former.

So who wants to guess what is going on here? Do we think a package based on Giolito and Robles is an acceptable framework for the Sox? And that we are just haggling, as Rosenthal said, over the remaining pieces? I'm going to guess we still are asking for Turner in any deal. I know some folks think that is ridiculous, and I am not saying I don't agree, but my guess is this deal would be pretty close to done by now if we were ok with Giolito and Robles as the headliners. My guess is Hahn and Co are still asking for Turner, Giolito and Robles, while Washington is willing to agree to the latter two. Then, if Boston jumps in with an offer of either Benintendi or Moncada, but not the other pieces we desire, we can go back to Washington asking for Turner. That's just my feeling for how the Sox are hoping this will go.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 PM) Sounds like the hotel bar kicked the GMs out. Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 7m7 minutes ago The #Whitesox did not come close to trading Chris Sale tonight but acknowledge the #Nats were very aggressive in proposals Almost too funny, in the vein Quinn predicted, is that this post went entirely unnoticed. Not quite sure what this means...just assuming it is a White Sox leak, it certainly appears as if the target all along may be the Red Sox or Houston, and that the Nationals are just a pawn to drive the price up. Btw, the stuff in this thread last night was priceless.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:18 AM) How many bats other than Encarnacion are left on the market? The cost savings as well as the age advantage are worth $35-55 million alone...and signing him's (EE) going to cost a pick or picks...so isn't a hitter in the prime of his career a pretty darned valuable asset if you take off your WAR-colored glasses? Considering guys like Beltran and Holiday are getting deals for $16 and $13 million, yes, one would think so? However, the value being given to prospects right now is so great that teams are willing to find one year type stopgaps, even if they have to pay a premium in cash, to hold on to those prospects. Unless you get something you really like right now, I'd just as much hold onto him and move him in July either this year or next year.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:52 PM) I'd be really surprised if the Rox would look at a proposal of Hoffman for Abreu as anything but lunacy. I really like Jose in terms of a fan liking a guy, but he makes a lot of sense as a player to move. He's making money now, isn't under control in the super long term, and at his age we've likely seen the best of him. Get something shiny and send him along. In the same sense, you do still have to field a team. If Jose is not really getting much back at this point, to me he is an easy choice to keep around both because he's a good guy and because his bat may be more valuable at a deadline when bats are not so easy to come by.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:54 PM) Every year I'm shocked at fans pretending they know the value of a player more than the people that actually male a living doing it. Quit it with that.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) It may or may not be one of those nights. I do know that the Sox like to make some late night splashes at times... these GMs like to take advantage of every second of time they have at the Winter Meetings. Regardless, my 6 pack is ready to be consumed. The decanters are just becoming uncorked in the DC area! Strap yourself in for a long evening, folks! This is when s*** gets done at the Winter Meetings.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:37 PM) Heyman: Nationals source on Sale "We've got a real shot."

I hope there are a lot of final pieces.

Rosenthal just reiterated his tweet about the Nats being aggressive on MLB Tonight. Nothing new, however.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) PTATC is going to come out of nowhere to say "UNBELIEVABLE" That was pretty nuts, I must say.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) How good is the James Shields chapter? Pretty good? That was a foreword by Ken Williams

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) OMG dude I understand that. It doesnt stop him from having a plan and being transparent with some things in the media. Other executives handle it well and still lose no competitive advantage. Maybe Hahn's biggest problem is that he has no tact. If that is all it is than everything will be forgiven after his awesome moves pan out. He's a lawyer...he's trained to say a lot of words that don't pigeonhole him into any particular position

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) Exactly. Sale is a name brand player. Q and Eaton are not. Regardless of how much we all now love WAR these days and want to use it as a value standard in trades, it doesn't always work like that in the real world. I think even Q makes Eaton seem like a relatively unknown "star."