iamshack

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:57 AM) I wonder if being declared a te instead of a wr tied his hands a bit in negotiations. If he would have refused to sign, they would have paid him $7 million this year under the franchise tag. Then they could have tagged him again next year for $7.7 million.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) Are those three doctors saying "There is nothing wrong with this kid" or "The kid is healthy enough to pitch right now". That's not the same thing. Well, I am obviously reading just like you are, but from what I have read, they are saying there is nothing wrong with this kid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 11:04 AM) Do all of the doctors have the same information (MRI results, etc.) or are some going on different levels of investigation? pt has, IIRC, noted that with many full tears you can tell just by a physical examination and touching, whereas an MRI could show things that could someday lead to full tears that couldn't be as easily found without the high-res scan. Well I think the point of Close sending him to these different doctors is to try and prove to the Astros that he is healthy. So I imagine they are getting whatever access to him that they want. I'm pretty certain they have all seen MRIs at the very least.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) Matt Harvey being one of the more recent examples. Harvey said something to the time of, "I will do everything I my power to pitcher through this." But again, in that case, I don't think there were any doctors who were saying "he is perfectly healthy!" This is a situation where three doctors are saying "there is nothing wrong with this kid," and the Astros are saying "we see something abnormal here."

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) A full tear yes I agree they'd be saying more than "abnormal", but a deformity or partial tear of some sort leading to a difficult to interpret signal still would fit under the group of "things that have virtually always led to TJS a short time down the line" based on that discussion. But if there was a partial tear don't you think these other doctors would have spotted it, or at least agreed that the Astros' physicians had reason for concern? I'm just thinking it has to be something a bit more exotic than that for there to be such a disparity of opinions.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) Worth noting a point that came up in the Tanaka discussion in reply to this...I'm not quite sure there is such a thing as a Minor Tear. I believe it was Caulfield who stressed that literally everyone who has tried to pitch through a minor/partially torn tendon in the elbow has wound up tearing it fully within a couple years and going for the TJS. I don't think it would be something that "normal." I think if there was a tear, that there would be less consensus that he was healthy. My guess is this is something the Astros doctors have seen before and have been concerned about, or some abnormality that perhaps they haven't seen before, but that the majority of the medical community does not believe to be concerning.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) Jesus, that guy is way more patient than I would have been. Glad he taped it though and spread the word. Comcast is f***ing terrible. See, I thought he should have played with him a little more...I thought he was a bit impatient. I would have had much more fun with the guy

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) And if he takes that college scholarship then hurts his elbow and can't pitch anymore, he may never earn $3.1 million for the rest of this life. Very true. He could have injured himself in high school this year and never earned 3.1 million for the rest of his life. He might injure himself after signing for $6.5 million and never earn the hundreds of millions he might earn if he fulfills his potential as a pitcher. The what-ifs are endless.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) I think he's ineligible to play in college if Close acted as his agent rather than an advisor. He probably would have to play in an Independent League for a year. If he can retain eligibility he can go to a JC and be in the draft next year, or a 4 year college and wait 3. I am pretty sure he would be considered ineligible at this point to play in college. Maybe they give him a break, but whatever situation, you have to figure even if he takes his 40% slot money, if he's successful, he's not going to be a lifetime Astro. I'm just going off of Rosenthal's article, which states he can accept a college scholarship.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) If Aiken hired an agent, he can't go pitch in college, right? So...what happens there? Rosenthal's article states that Casey Close is a "family adviser" and that he can accept a college scholarship if he does not sign.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) Now I'm thinking their consolation prize may be enough for them to do this. The kid probably hired an agent, not an advisor, so he probably can't play in college, they are still giving him good money, they won't lose a pick, maybe they think he's a sucker, telling him his physical wasn't clean and pressuring him and his agent, all the while knowing if he doesn't sign, well, the second pick next year is better than forfeiting a pick next year. If they are playing games, they are going to have a hard time getting players to negotiate and take physicals for them. I just don't see where this is worth it unless there is something obviously wrong, yet the agent has 3 doctors that say he's fine. I'm glad this is happening in Houston and not with the White Sox. But he can take a college scholarship if he fails to sign. He can also re-enter the draft later if he chooses.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) But look at their #1 pick last year. Appel signed for $6.5 mill and he's been absolutely horrendous this year, and who knows if he'll ever become anything. Same thing with Aiken - who knows what he's going to become. It's easier to swallow a $3.16 million sunk cost than a $5 or $6.5 million sunk cost. I don't understand it, but there's fishy business going on here. This could get really ugly, even if Aiken IS hurt. I don't think Appel has anything to do with this. If they were uncomfortable with the proposition of taking on this much risk, why wouldn't they have drafted Nola or Schwarber or someone else with more predictability that they could sign for less? This is just a tremendous amount of risk to your reputation as an organization for the amount of reward present. I've got to believe they are intelligent enough to realize that.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) There is a piece to this whole puzzle that is missing. The piece that is missing is whether what they are seeing is valid or not, and whether that concern will manifest itself down the road or not. That's really it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:57 AM) Well that changes things, but why go that cheap on the #1 overall pick? He still agreed to sign way below slot. They rescinded the offer they made to the 5th round pick when they discovered the issue with Aiken's MRI. They had offered Nix an amount based on Aiken signing at $6.5 million. So now, they have to either pay someone they consider to possibly be damaged goods enough to agree to a contract, or else they lose the entire slot value form their pool, which would then cause them to exceed that pool by enough to cost them a future draft pick if they were to sign Nix. Essentially, they have to choose between overpaying someone they believe may be injured, losing their 5th round pick in this year's draft, losing their first round pick in this year's draft but getting the second pick next year, or losing their pick and getting no compensation at all. Or, they can convince Aiken to sign for something below the $6.5 million and receive a player they believe may be injured, but then be able to sign the 5th round pick.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:52 AM) Maybe someone in the front office suggested that they "find an abnormality" to try and save some resources? This is a team that wanted to give George Springer a 7 year, $13 million deal so he could play on Opening Day and, when he turned it down, they sent him to the minors. They are not the most ethically sound organization at the moment, but they have shown that they know how to game the system and have been willing to do so. The Springer situation is different though...that is just business, IMO. Maybe not the best for relationship-building, but that is business. This is in a whole other realm if they are simply imagining the injury. And like I said, to save $2-3 million? If that were true, just wait til the kid has logged 2-3 years of service time and they try and buy out his arb years and a FA year or two. They'll pay about 5 times that discount if indeed the kid is willing to sign with them at all.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:48 AM) Or they are trying to use remaining $$ on 21st rd pick Mac Marshall who was a top 75 guy with a strong commitment to LSU. If Aiken takes the $3 million, they could then offer Marshall close to $3 million to forego his LSU commitment. So yes I am skeptical. I guess I just don't see it. Then you piss off your number 1 pick and it's likely you're going to have to pay like 5 times that "discount" when it comes time to sign him to another long-term contract...

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) It's just a gut feeling, but this really feels like a smear campaign. If they turn out right, then they look great, but this feels really shady. I guess I just don't understand why they would do this though, given their original offer. If they had made no offer, then fine, I could see it. But they showed every indication of wanting to pay the kid. Then they saw the MRI.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jul 14, 2014 -> 06:51 PM) Technically, based entirely on the application, they aren't doing anything wrong. But I think something is amiss with the "damages." They didn't actually have any loss since they filled the spot for the same time period. This is a penalty for reneging. Had you done something to prevent them from renting by August 1, then they are right. Here, though, I think you might have a case. And don't feel too bad. We've all been there in one way or another. I thought that was the point of the "application fee." This is usually to protect the landlord from incurring costs in the event that a potential tenant does not sign a lease. Here, the leasing company wants to keep damages (resulting from lost opportunity costs) for signing an application, but not signing a lease. This would be like having to make a first month's payment on a car just for the privilege of seeing if you qualify for financing for the purchase of the car. They can put whatever they want in the fine print, but this sure doesn't seem enforceable given the lack of consideration flowing from the landlord to the tenant.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) Well, yes and no. Injury? not exactly. Abnormalities? Yes. Almost all professional ballplayers show some abnormality on an MRI. Houston is arguing that this is a meaningful one and more than what one would expect. I don't know if they are right. Given that they were willing to pay him $6.5 million originally, I doubt they are just trying to save a few million here. It follows that they honestly believe he may be damaged goods and are just trying to make the best of the situation they find themselves in at this point. It seems like quite a risk to take just to save a few million bucks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) I remember reading multiple different times over the years that you could find an "injury" for pretty much anyone who has pitching for an amount of time. With all of the ligaments and tendons and muscles, that there was always technically something wrong with any pitcher. True? No? Yes.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 08:52 AM) Would Aiken be allowed to sit out next season and then become a free agent? I think he can either go to college or re-enter the draft. I don't think he can just become a FA.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 15, 2014 -> 09:06 AM) Interesting how this is working out. Sounds like Aiken's camp is now openly talking to the media, which is interesting. Tough to say without info or medical training whether HOU is BS'ing. Is there any means by which Aiken's camp can contest the idea that the physical is failed? Well they have a number of doctors saying he is not injured. The Astros are claiming there is a "significant abnormality" based on what they are seeing in the MRI, however, they can't disclose it publicly because of HIPPA rules. The issue becomes the fact that it is so difficult to determine exactly "when" something is proof of an injury. Aiken has doctors saying he is perfectly fine. He threw 97 in his last start. He claims to be suffering from no pain. Ultimately, I don't think the Astros can be forced to sign him if they believe he is injured. They may be operating from a position of leverage here, but they have plenty to lose as well. They originally offered him $6.5 million or whatever and then made offers to their other top 10 picks based on that outlay to their first round pick. But they don't want to pay the additional $2-3 million for what they believe is a player destined for injury if they can avoid it.

This is just BS...wtf is the $408 for again? There is no way the $408 can be just the application fee, is it? "Do not complete this application unless you are willing to deposit first month's rent now, sign a lease, and when lease is signed, pay full security deposit if the landlord accepts your application." WHAT? There is a term for this type of contract...I can't recall it, but I vaguely remember the concept from law school. Wtf is the point of the application if you have to be willing to deposit a month's rent, sign a lease, and pay a full security deposit IF the landlord accepts your application? Why not just be signing the lease to begin with if you have to be agreeing to the same terms regardless? Where is the consideration on the part of the landlord for you forking over all this money? The landlord can essentially just hold your month's rent for the pleasure of determining he would like to accept it. Unconscionable contract of adhesion?

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 14, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) Got a job offer in Iowa. Waiting for my wife's work to clear her to work from home (she's currently based out of their offices near Chicago). If she's cleared, we're off to Iowa City! Congrats!

Additionally, if you have a lawyer write a demand letter, they'll most likely just s*** their pants and give it back. This trick has worked well for me without having to involve many other parties.