iamshack

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 08:15 PM) yes, I'm sure he will, it's why a lot of players put teams on that list, but I think he will go to one of those teams with an extension signed. I guess I'd agree with you more if he didnt just fire his representation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:51 PM) You really don't think the inconsistent performances of the last season mattered more than the personalities? I doubt they'd have cared one iota how out of shape Jenks came to camp every year if he put up an ERA of 1.50 each year. Clearly they wouldn't have cared had he done that. But you see teams lose interest in players all the time because of players and coaches getting fed up with each other. Jerks' lack of accountability probably led to this result just as much as the actual performance issues. Add to that the salary expectations, the financial position of the team, and you get one team's trash being another team's treasure. I can't guarantee it, but my guess is the White Sox don't believe Jenks is washed up.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:57 PM) not really because you still have to waive it for certain teams. I could be wrong, but I didn't see where he said he would hold out if not traded. Guys put a NTC in for leverage. There's 15 teams on the list according to reports, he can limit it to a handful of teams and make the Royals pick from the reduced list, it's still a major factor. of course the Jays have 15 other teams not on the list they can ship him to, but may get less because he might make it clear he won't sign an extension with those teams. Look at what he's doing though...he's got a clause in his contract which implies he does not wish to be traded to half the League, then he gives the team an ultimatum to trade him. They're going to come back and say "Look, we'll honor your request, but not under these conditions. We need to do what's best for the Kansas City Royals going forward and this condition hinders that." My guess is he goes to a team on that list, ultimately.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:30 PM) Yeah, but would have to see who is on and who is not on his NTC, could change a lot. When you start demanding a trade, NTC's seem to become irrelevant.

QUOTE (Ron @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:13 PM) Doesn't sound like the Yankees have 'their chance' to me, he doesn't want to go there. There have been reports that he has said he'll go anywhere, despite that list. I guess we'll wait and see...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:57 PM) The financial situation one doesn't fit if you believe contention that the Sox had something like $7.5 million in offers out at the sametime to both Wood and Crain. If the Sox really believed in Jenks, they could have offered him the $6 million that Boston did, and made it publicly known that they tried to keep him. They could have even offered him a little less as a "hometown discount" and still made the contention of trying to keep him, if their opinion was he was worth keeping. Well I'm not certain that they did. But even if they did, they'd be getting two pitchers in that scenario rather than one. I think this is probably also a scenario wherein the two sides were sort of ready to part ways just because of the wear on everyone involved. Not even necessarily a performance-related issue, but just because of the personalities.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:05 PM) Well here is the Yankees big chance. Yep. I just wonder how Greinke would fare under that big of a spotlight.

Thanks for posting this. I happened by this group's website about a year and a half ago and ended up wasting my entire afternoon researching the story. There's some incredibly fascinating details involved in this mystery, including a little girl who supposedly heard Earhart calling for help on her radio as she was close to running out of fuel.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:34 PM) That's the whole point. The point is that Jenks did not fit into the White Sox' plan because of many factors. I don't think it was just a result of their opinion of him as a pitcher, but rather, the general market value of pitchers with closing experience, their current financial situation, his value on the trade market, as well as what they thought of his skill level today. It's not as if they have swollen coffers and just decided to let him walk away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:13 PM) The money was there is you believe that the Sox had an offer to Wood that wasn't mutually exclusive to Crain's. If the Sox thought he was really worth any kind of a contract, they would have held on to him and traded him for sure. They would have offered arbit at least. Money in the range of $6 million? It's not my belief that they have any intention of offering any relief pitcher that much money, let alone Wood or Jenks. As for offering him arbitration, he could have been awarded something around $8 million, and then what? I'm not sure they were certain there were any takers at that price. In fact, it's pretty evident there would not have been, considering he just signed for $6 million. What you're arguing is someone would have been willing to pay $8 million and give up players for him? I think that would have been a huge risk, one certainly the Sox were not willing to take.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:04 PM) They agreed to speak, and the Sox had no interest even a way reduced rate. That is telling to me. Ahh, that was not my understanding of it. I think they would have had interest in $3 million or so, which certainly speaks volumes as to their opinion of him, but is also a product of their financial situation right now. Had he been lights-out last season, I think we would still be looking at him in a Red Sox uniform this season, whether because we non-tendered him or because we signed him and then traded him to get a few warm bodies back.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 05:48 PM) Which is why I think the Sox kept trying to give him pitches with movement to go off. They also walked away completely from Jenks. Those are two pretty big indictments of where they think Bobby is. They really had no other choice. They had to non-tender him or pay him in the range of $7-8 million dollars next year. The two parties did agree to speak again once Bobby went through the free agency process, but the idea in Jenks' camp that he was worth $7-8 million, and the fact that he got $6 million from Boston pretty much prevented that from happening.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 05:34 PM) And yet, despite all that, when you're watching his fastball on TV, it looks about the same speed as Shingo's. I can't figure that part out. I think that's because it's been a bit straight lately. I'm certainly not trying to argue that Bobby can just show up and light up the AL East; I guess I just think he still has plenty left in his arm to return to prominence as a very tough reliever.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) Frankly, the Cardinals are playing a 6th round pick as their starter. Their season is over. Put the kid out there and let him start getting game experience, even if you think he's a complete moron and doesn't belong in an NFL huddle. Miracles do happen. The difference is Orton has actually played very well in Denver while Anderson has played predictably horrible in Arizona. Additionally, Skelton is probably the most talented QB on Arizona's roster, while Tebow is most-likely not. That being the case, Orton is really struggling with his rib injury. No need to put the guy through pain and chance for additional injury when you have Tebow sitting right there, especially since, as you said, their chance for the postseason is zero.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 05:29 PM) The numbers last year say that Jenks was in fact unlucky compared to where he should have been (way high BABIP, still decent stuff), and the Red Sox are the team most likely to buy that out of any in baseball thanks to Bill James. At least personally though, after watching him last year, I'll believe it when I see it. While that is true, it's not as if they are just relying on some cockamamie stat and ignoring a guy with broken-down stuff. If anything, I think Bobby's results last year were alarming because of the stuff he still has, not because he has lost his stuff and needs to learn to pitch again. Despite him losing some of the stuff he may have had 5 years ago, he still has quite a live arm relative to his competition.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 04:30 PM) Bobby has conditioning issues, he's battled numerous injuries over the past couple of years, his WHIP has ballooned since 2008, and he doesn't throw nearly as hard as he used to. Everything points to him being a mop-up guy making the veteran league minimum a year from now, so I'm not following Epstein's decision to throw $12M at him. I'm thankful for everything that Bobby's done for the ChiSox and wish him nothing but the best. But I just don't see this ending well. Especially in Boston, where the term "unforgiving" is probably the nicest way to characterize the fan base. He's still got 3 potential plus pitches (Hey! Alliteration!), and Curt Young is a pretty solid pitching coach. To say that everything points to Bobby as being a "mop-up guy" seems to me to be a bit of an exaggeration. The Red Sox showing him $12 million obviously points to the fact that they believe he can be an elite setup man or a potential closer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 05:02 PM) I just learned that the Chief Operating Officer in charge of the Denver Broncos football operations is the cousin of one "George W. Bush". I think that explains a lot. I'm really hoping they play Tebow on Sunday, because before my degenerate ass left Vegas to come back to Chicago this week, I put the Raiders -6.5 in my parlay

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 02:53 PM) Is This Randy Moss Anonymously Bashing Jeff Fisher On Nashville Radio? I actually think that is hilarious....wrong....but hilarious

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 01:18 PM) You're O.J. Simpson crazy if you think KW is going to take on a $11-12 million dollar closer for 2011 who had by far the highest ERA of his career and blew 8 saves, one who's one year away from FA and is looking for 5/75. I think the shine is off his star a bit. I think the best thing he'll get is 3/$36 or so with an option. Something similar to what KRod got.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 11:53 AM) Agreed. Crawford for the next 2-4 years might be worth close to his annual salary, still overpaid in my mind but not ridiculous, but the last few years of that contract they are gonna regret. Werth won't lose near as much of his game as Crawford will throughout the length of their contracts. Most guys, maybe Crawford's an exception, stop stealing bases in their early to mid thirties. I see him dropping to 20-25 bags tops in 4 or 5 years. I think you're probably right in that regard, but I think it's hard to say for sure. I've been expecting Ichiro to slow down for the last 3-4 years, and it really hasn't happened. Now he's also a legendary worker, so he may be an extremely unique case. But it points out that just because it would seem that Crawford will slow down is not necessarily proof that he will.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 12:08 PM) Why do you think what you say is logic and reason? You've watched TV and read articles. I have lived it. If I were to say that everyone who lives in Las Vegas is a whore-mongering, gambling-addicted coke head, then I would expect you would have more knowledge of the situation than anyone else on this site. Just because I watched CSI or Casino a few times and read an article in the newspaper about Las Vegas, doesn't mean I know the place. Milk, I never meant to diminish your experience. I'm simply trying to argue that there are other angles present here as well. My apologies for not communicating that more clearly.

QUOTE (soxfan-kwman @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 11:18 AM) My theory is that 1 out of 10 people are not so nice. I think Red Sox fan's break that theory. I feel bad for Bobby. As for that son of sam horn Red Sox website, it's cruel & brutal. All they do is make fun of Bobby & compare him to Bartolo Colon, Brad Penny, Davud Wells & anyone shaped pudgy. Sure he had a bad year last year, but he can still throw a 100mph when he wants to. Two thoughts: Typical Red Sox fans & 2005 must still sting!!!! Give me a break guys....as if every time Bobby's pitched poorly the last few years it wasn't followed with a litany of jokes about Jenks' weight and shape?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 10:47 AM) Ah yes, attacking my intelligence because my personal experiences are different than yours. I had forgotten why I disliked you, but thanks for the reminder. Oh come on Milk, we need to stop the public sniping. But what else do you expect when you say 'I'll take my personal experience over any argument you could possibly make.' Don't you think that flies in the face of logic and reason a bit? And whether you like me or not, or whenever it is that you remembered that, it was pretty clear in your reply to my post, which began with the innocent phrase "I don't necessarily agree," that you followed with 'Well I lived there for 6 years, but whatever you say," that you had every intention of the tone of this debate being exactly what it has been.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 09:47 AM) IMO, the ENTIRE problem is psychological, which explains why every year the Twins destroy us and make it into the playoffs they get destroyed by any team they play, even if it's NOT the Yankees. Their team pitching and hitting were marginally better than ours last year, but they somehow won just about every game they played against us in grand blowout fashion. Statistically, being that they are marginally better in every way, that should result in them being 1 or 2 games better in head to head play...but it never turns out that way, because every time the Sox play them (no matter how good the Sox are), it's like Superman playing a solid block of Kryptonite for who knows what reason. Though if I had to venture a guess, the reason is that Hawk (and many others, including Ozzie Guillen in the Sox organization) gush over s***ty players like Carlos Gomez and how great he is -- when he sucks in every way possible -- not to mention build up the Twins as an invincible enemy. They need to take a queue from the 1980 US Olympic Hockey Coach, Herb Brooks with the Twins. Rather than coming in and building the Russians up as an invincible team and telling them that in comparison they suck, he chipped away at the Russians, making fun of them in every way he could think of, belittling them just enough every day that their aura of invincibility was dimmed in the eyes of the players. In contrast, if you ask Hawk, Ozzie, or anyone else in the Sox organization, the Twins are better than the Sox -- in every way, every single year -- so there is no point in trying. This entire conversation infuriates me, and serves as a lesson in exactly how you DO NOT COACH your players into thinking their opponents are better than they are. That's an interesting theory. I like it!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 10:53 PM) After watching a particularly horrible Jared's commercial I got to thinking there was no way in hell I would ever shop there because of their commercials. I was curious if there were other people who had the same sort of thoughts for specific commercials and companies/products? Absolutely. Menards comes to mind.