iamshack

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:48 AM) I keep feeling like we'll trade Viciedo, Flowers, and Teahen for Broxton. Seems a bit steep...

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:42 AM) Posting from my phone. Could be a rumor but I hear the Sox are deep in talks that involve some of our top prospects for pitching. Maybe we are also trading someone from our rotation? We have top prospects?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 09:07 AM) There must not have been anyone eligible in the Rule V draft that we could use. Raw arms, etc, don't equate to filling an immediate need. My understanding of this draft is they have to make the ML roster or be offered back is that right? Yep.

Matt Cassel had an emergency appendectomy. Probably will miss two games. Brodie Croyle starting this week against the Chargers. Cassel had appendectomy

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 07:57 AM) Suh was fined $15k for his hit on Cutler. I dunno, seemed like a good call in real time but questionable in the replays. Unless the NFL has another camera angle I'm not seeing, I don't see how that hit was fine-worthy. Regardless of whether he hit him in the back of the head, it has been described as unnecessary and a "non-football" move. I think the issue with the hit was what most of us in this thread pointed out - it was completely unnecessary to hit Cutler in that manner. It's pretty clear the NFL is trying to enforce the fundamental method of tackling instead of a take him down however you want free for all.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 08:56 AM) Having a decent player coming up at a position usually never prevented the Yankees from going after the big money guy. You're absolutely right, but I think they have learned from a lot of their mistakes in the past. They're still the biggest spenders of all, but I think they have become smarter spenders in the last few years...

QUOTE (farmteam @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:25 PM) Considering I'm planning on being in law school, would you mind telling me where you ended up/how you got there? You can do it in a PM if you like. Farmteam, I went to law school with the full intentions of practicing law afterwards. Ideally, I wanted to become active in sports and entertainment law, but then again, what twentysomething male law school student doesn't? I quickly realized that without any serious connections to that industry, it was probably a bit of a pipedream. So I began concentrating on IP law, as I wanted to do something that was sort of on the cusp of technology. Problem is that I didn't really find it all that interesting as I often got bored with all the technical cyberspace jargon. As for work experience, I worked as an intern for Mayor Daley for a few years, and then for a pretty prominent PI firm for another year. I enjoyed the experiences, but I found that I was sort of turned off by the culture of attorneys in Chicago...it's just very cutthroat, lots of big egos, lots of self-righteousness, etc. After I graduated I decided to take a look around at non-traditional fields before taking any position in the legal field I could find. I wanted to give myself a chance to do something I really liked before I immersed myself in the legal industry because I figured once I got in, I would never get out. So while I was poking around, I found an opportunity to work for a start-up in the green energy industry, something I was really interested in. I did all kinds of research into municipal, state, and federal incentives packages for green technologies, worked on power purchase agreements, and all kinds of other research we needed to get the company started. Meanwhile, I had been playing fantasy baseball in a keeper league for several years with some random guys. Got to being friends with a couple guys that ended up becoming energy traders here in Las Vegas. When I took the job with the startup company, they started asking lots of questions...we bounced a lot of ideas off eachother when we weren't trading Carl Crawford back and forth to one another. Eventually, they started recruiting me to come work with them out here. Long story short, I eventually took the position and moved out to Vegas. I've been trading electricity for over two years now and I have recently been asked to interview for two senior analyst positions, one in our renewables division, and another in our portfolio analytics division, both of which I am very interested in, and both of which willl open up a world of other opportunities for me, even outside the energy industry. All the sudden I look up and I'm in the middle of one of the hottest industries in the world right now, while many of the lawyers in Chicago and other big cities are really having to hustle for work right now (although some are undoubtedly doing very well still). So I guess I couldn't be more excited about where I am and the decision I made not to just leap in to the legal industry. While I am not practicing law currently, and really don't have much intention of doing so, my schooling definitely has come in handy and it is definitely something my employer calls upon on a regular basis. My experience will most likely give me an edge when I interview for other positions here. So while paying the loans each month really puts a dent in my bank account, I am still very happy I attended law school. I guess the moral of the story is that you never know where life is going to take you. You have to follow your heart with a good helping of your brain, and do the best to make good contacts along the way. Then make the best decisions you can with the information you have at the time. I can't stress that enough. Let me know of any questions you may have...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 08:46 AM) If you want to brag to me that I was wrong, I came into this offseason 100% convinced that Crawford would be a yankee. I figured the emergence of Gardner would preclude that from happening. I did figure the Red Sox would be in on him, but their trade for AGon made me think they would shy away from handing out two nine-figure deals in such quick succession.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 07:28 AM) I have a sudden urge to say the phrase "I told you so..." Yeah, yeah...good call, Balta. As late as 7pm Pacific last night, most people seemed to think Crawford was going to get screwed because the Yankees and Red Sox were not going to be big players for him, but rather, just bit players to make sure the other didn't get a steal because of lack of interest. Surprise, surprise. Edit: That being said, I like this signing in the grand scheme of things. Keeps the Bos-NYY dynamic going full-bore, a big bulky contract that has the potential to hamstring Boston a bit down the line, for a player who refuses to play a premium defensive positiion and whose value is based on his ability to run. I'm not sure how Keith Law can predict just how many steps CC will or will not lose as he passes his prime, but hey, he knows everything. Oh, and CC's on my keeper fantasy team

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:13 PM) I think we can safely assume that the best case scenario is the same in both circumstances, correct? Sox win the World Series, giant orgy, the entire city of Chicago loves the Sox, yada yada. Can we assume that the worst case scenario is the same? I don't think we can. I think that the worst case scenario with PK in the fold involves a minor drop in attendance. I think the worst case scenario with Lee and Putz involved gets way uglier, because I think you see fans revolting about why the Sox didn't resign PK and seeing a huge drop in attendance. Maybe that's just my opinion, but I think they went through those 3 scenarios, and that PK grades out just ahead in both the expected and worst case scenarios, whereas in the best case they are virtually the same. No, I can come up with plenty of worse case scenarios uglier than a minor drop in attendance. PK suffers a decline in performance due to some of his chronic injuries. Spirals into levels of 2003 suckitude. Team struggles mightily, forced to have a fire sale, trades PK to an upstart Baltimore Orioles team along with $12 million cash for a bucket of balls. PK's legacy in Chicago a bit tarnished, he is unceremoniously dealt, he becomes bitter at the organization, etc., etc. I think you bave to place yourself back in time a few years and remember when things weren't going so well...when some fans did want to trade him, when Pauly was fighting that thumb and putting up a sub-.800 OPS.....it's difficult to imagine now, but it's not something that is out of the realm of possibility at all. White Sox fans and Chicago fans are indeed sentimental. But they also have short memories...

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:05 PM) I would say to keep your mind a bit more open. There are a lot of things you think may suck that are actually pretty interesting when you have your own stake in the claim. You probably will find the stuff you think is interesting kind of sucks. 2 years later I wouldn't have imagined how interested i'd be in internet start-ups and planning on going back for an MBA. I concur. Ross, just to add to what BMags has stated, you never know where life is going to take you. I have a career in an industry now that I hardly knew existed 3 years ago. I'm doing things I never thought possible, even more astounding, never even knew were possible, when I graduated from law school. So don't necessarily worry about particular fields or areas or paths, but rather focus on finishing your schooling, making good connections in any way possible, and just being open to as many possibilities as you can. Very few people know exactly what they want to do, or what they will ultimately end up doing, when they graduate college, let alone before that. Sure, there are cases where someone always knew they wanted to be a lawyer or a doctor or an actor, but for the most part, we all just go through life trying to make the best decision we can, with the information available to us, at that particular time. This is really all you can ask of yourself. And as long as you work hard, try to be friendly to those who treat you with respect, you'll find your way to something that you like doing and that pays reasonably well.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:06 PM) I think that, the fact of the matter is, the White Sox themselves care about two things - winning a championship and making money. I have to believe that they they did their homework and that they believe that, not only does having Paul Konerko give them as much if not a greater chance to win a World Series than signing Derrek Lee (or any other realistic options), but that he is also going to make them more money as well. There are people who will come to the park to specifically see Paul Konerko play - I don't think there is any question of that. Would there be as many people, or even half as many people, who would come to the park to see Derrek Lee and JJ Putz play? I think anybody who would say that this is purely a baseball move - whether a random fan or Jerry Reinsdorf himself - is being naive or misleading. There is more at stake here than simply improving the club. The Sox surely could have brought in Lee and Putz, but at what ultimate cost? By changing the face of the franchise, you are devaluing the brand itself; by keeping the face of the franchise, that value retains itself or increases. There is absolutely an ulterior aspect to this move because, quite frankly, Paul Konerko is Chicago White Sox baseball. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Winning would bring the fans and make money too. I would have chosen they go with a pure baseball decision, but then again, I think I'd understand letting him go more than most.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) I think, if anything, this proves that Jerry Reinsdorf isn't the cold-hearted business man that most people view him as, and the White Sox aren't in general. They are perhaps naive in resigning Konerko to the deal they did, because it assumes that he will continue being a similar player to that of the Paul Konerko from 2000-2010. And they are perhaps making both a financially and value-based irresponsible move, because Konerko's contract is worth more than anything Derrek Lee is going to get on the open market, they lose out on 2 draft picks, and they lose out on the $4 mill or whatever the difference may be between Lee and Konerko's deals. This is a move made for both the quality of the player, the loyalty that Reinsdorf has for Konerko, and for the public relations of the Chicago White Sox. With regards to his quality, I think it's fairly safe to say that Paul Konerko is still a good hitter. I strongly doubt he's a .900+ OPS guy going forward, but he's a much better than average hitter, and I don't see that suddenly falling off the face of the planet. Beyond that, in the final year of his deal, he is being paid such a reasonable amount that it may make sense to begin to develop a 1B that year while he is still playing, which would significantly cut into his playing time - it really wouldn't surprise me to see Konerko end up with fewer than 400 PAs in 2013. There is a level of loyalty that Reinsdorf shows to Konerko, and a lot of that has to do with Konerko being a long-time member of this organization, it has to do with him living near Reinsdorf in Arizona, and it has to do with him being a huge part in delivering the first World Series title in Chicago since World War I. There has always been a great deal of loyalty from Reinsdorf towards veteran players who have been very important figures in White Sox history, and those that show their loyalty towards the Sox will be shown that loyalty right back. It sends a message to those who play for the White Sox right now and the rest of the players in the league that, if you want to be a member of the Chicago White Sox, you will be, and you will be paid fairly. And, if you perform well during your tenure with the Chicago White Sox and act as a diplomat for the team, you will be rewarded with another contract, even if you may be a little older, and it may be above what you are actually worth. Beyond that, and I think one of the most important aspects of this move, is the move with regard to the average fan of the Chicago White Sox. I don't think you will find any disagreement amongst the members of the front office that the move the Sox should have made, to maximize their value, would have been to bring in Derrek Lee, use the left over funds to sign a reliever, let Konerko walk and collect the two draft picks. What happens though when Paul Konerko goes to Arizona and hits 40 homers? And Derrek Lee hits .220 halfway through May and then goes down with a wrist injury? And the reliever does his best Scott Linebrink impression? And the two draft picks bust? All of that is not likely to happen, but it's also not outside the realm of possibility. If that occurs, what happens to the average fan? Do you not believe that there will be some vehement dissidence towards the Chicago White Sox organization as a whole? I am not trying to suggest that Paul Konerko is somehow the cause of the Nostradamian end of the world prophecies, merely that his presence means a lot to White Sox fans. I do not believe that if Konerko struggles, there would be as much of an outrage by the fan base. That needs to be taken into consideration as well. --- In the end, I'm not going to pretend that I wanted Konerko back. As an economics student, I understand that you should try and maximize your intrinsic value, and I believed that signing Derrek Lee, using the excess money and signing a reliever, and gaining two draft picks was worth more than Paul Konerko. Some more accomplished businessmen than I disagreed. I'm not hurt or upset by the decision, and in fact can't disagree with it. It's still fairly likely that Paul Konerko will hit 75 homers over the next 3 years, and it's certainly possible that he will hit 100. He will get his 2000th hit, he will score his 1000th run, he will play in his 2000th game and it's entirely possible that he will get his 10th career stolen base and 10th career triple. The basic premise is that Paul Konerko has been a great player and almost certainly should continue to be a good player, and the White Sox have him for 3 more years. (BTW, I don't believe it is a coincidence that the DBacks offered a deal that was 3/$30, and the value of Konerko's deal, excluding the deferred money, is 3/$30.5) Wite, I agree with a lot of this. However, I also think at their core, White Sox fans care most about the ballclub winning another World Series Championship. PK is one of the most beloved, if not the most beloved White Sox player of this generation. But I think even the most sentimental fan would rather win a World Series Championship without PK than not win one with PK. And that should have been the ultimate goal - doing everything possible to win another WS Championship - rather than trying to win another WS Championship with Paul Konerko, which is apparently what is taking place. I'm just not sure that we have a margin for error here.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:34 PM) Some dope called the Score to say the Bears will win because the Pats will fall down on the field. He apparently forgot the Pats beat the Titans 59-0 with a field covered with snow and Brady threw 6TDs last year Was that last year? For some reason I thought that was 2 years ago when Matt Cassel was QB? Edit: Nevermind, you are correct sir. I was thinking of the 47-7 drubbing of the Cardinals in the snow on Sunday, Dec 21, 2008 with Cassel at the helm.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:17 PM) Damn, that was a nice rebuttal. That's why I tend not to get too caught up in split stats. They're too easy to manipulate. It's not a rebuttal at all. The two situations are not comparable. You're telling me you shouldn't utilize the data that shows Lee has played well since coming back from his injury in trying to predict whether he will bounce back?

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) just a guess on my part, but that might mean he wanted to be the closer coming into ST so he can boost his value, possibly Sox not willing to do that I'm pretty sure we were trying to sign him as the closer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:29 PM) Why? The Sox weren't willing to go to 2+ years with Putz. That 2nd year was important too. He wasn't demanding 2+ years from us. He wanted $5-6 million on a 1-year deal from us.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) There's no guarantee about anyone, but you said you would sign Konerko for 2 years $20 million. This is an extra year, so worry about that 3 years from now, and I really doubt the extra $2.5 million they will be paying him more per year than what you previously said you would be comfortable with, is really going to cost them anything special. Actually, they are paying him $12 million the next 2 years and $6.5 million the 3rd year, with a $1million payment for 7 years after that. Considering .196 hitting strikeout machines with OPS less than .750 can get $10 million for 1 year, its a good deal. The extra $2.5 million this year probably just cost them JJ Putz. And yes, I said 2/$20. That's $17.5 million less than what they paid him ultimately. They're paying him almost double what I said I would be comfortable with.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:53 PM) I saw them, yes, it's still no guarantee he bounces back fully. Could he? Absolutely, but nobody has a clue on what type of $$ or years he's asking for and what if he wants to wait and PK was willing to get the deal done today, then the Sox could be looking for Mark Kotsay the sequel in January. So there is no guarantee about DLee, but there is about PK?

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) I highly doubt it's just White Sox fans that value Konerko over Lee at this point in their careers. In fact, most of my friends are Detroit fans, and I can definitively tell you that supporting this contract is not "obvious fan bias", it's rational thought around the country. Not that favoring DLee is irrational, but saying that supporting this contract is homerism is just incorrect. I don't value the opinions of other fans around the country any more than I do our own...in fact, I value the opinion of our own fans more since they actually see the player every day. But that doesn't mean squat. Things like this tend to be hindsight = 20/20. Everyone will be praising this contract if PK stays healthy and performs and cursing it if he doesn't.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) If Paulie's year last year means nothing then I guess it's impossible to combat your point. I'm basically saying that the extra 6M in 2013 is worth it to me if it means I'm getting the better player. PK does his damage against AL pitching. Lee should do better against NL pitching if he's going to be my 1B on a championship team. Great organizations very often have to pay a guy an extra year who may be past his prime. If you are a team with a dedication to winning-level payroll year in year out, that is one of the risks. I'm not saying you pile up crappy contracts, but as someone said earlier, right now we have this 2014-2020 payment and the money we're on the hook for regarding Linebrink. Over time, that's not a lot for someone like JR. I'm saying you should only be willing to pay the player for what you think he is capable of over the life of the contract. Not what he did last year or the year before that. PK's home runs from last year will achieve nothing for the 2011 team. And yet teams pay for past performance all the time.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 01:46 PM) The way you tell it, Lee had the MVP caliber year last year, not PK. And Lee was in the NL. I'd have been all for Lee if the price were going to be super cheap. But what Lee put up stats-wise is clearly below PK's current functioning level. Also, again, jersey sales are of worth to the Sox. That's basically advertising for them. They want tons of Sox jerseys all around the city. Dumping PK means these jerseys are no longer worn out and about, starting conversations around the city (and north side). Jersey-wearers are walking commercials for the White Sox, and this is an area they want to improve to help buzz for their team. In that sense you want the team leader staying. Teams do care about getting their logo out there, they go through pains to present it in various ways for a reason. Last year gets you NOTHING in this contract. Get that through your heads, people.

I don't think I could stand his constant spitting.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 11:42 AM) I thought your point was that he cared more about money than winning? This post seems to be evidence to the contrary. It was. I never said he wanted to go to hell, did I?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 12:34 PM) Look at what Jayson Werth got and tell me this is an overpay. That's a great measuring stick.