iamshack

I went with a friend of mine to buy a new truck a few years ago, fresh off of reading one of these articles from a former salesman. I mentioned the dealer kickback or reserve when they were claiming they couldn't budge off the price anymore, and I think the two of them almost spit out their coffee. They claimed they didn't negotiate the kickback, and so we walked out. Thirty minutes later they called us back and magically found a way to knock another two grand off the MSRP. If you read some of the articles, and take the advice, they really can work...

QUOTE (qwerty @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) I hope i don't have to remind people the track record mlb trade rumors started off with. It used to be one of the least reliable places around. Tim dierkes does not have much, if any, room to talk. I don't believe that was Tim who said that. I contacted Tim personally about this rumor, and he plainly said he checked with his own source, who contradicted the one here, and he was choosing not to mention it on his site.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 04:45 PM) I'm sorry, I guess I just don't understand "caught in the moment." The details were known at the time of the very first posts. And it was immediate that people decided KW should be fired or that he didn't know what he was doing. I simply don't understand that if you admit you don't know all of the details and don't know much about the players, how you could be so ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the trade was terrible. It doesn't make sense. I don't see how being rational is hard to do. Maybe it's just how I think and I should realize not everybody looks at things the same way I look at things. If I'm surprised by a trade, it's not my first reaction to flip out. I usually immediately step back and think, "what is possibly the thought process behind this?" I'm not saying all of his deals are good ones, but I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making trades. Mr. Rongey, I think you're absolutely correct, and you seem to be a very rational person, which is probably one of the reasons you were hired to do what you do. But let's face it....people are this way with EVERYTHING. Everyone likes to add their two cents, everyone always thinks they know everything. And honestly, ridiculous over-reactions like this are part of what drives all mediums that revolve around conversation. The best thing about it being able to go back and laugh at yourself (and others) for what they said at the time.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 05:05 PM) That is from sons of sam horn, which is outdated. Under the new cba even if arbitration is offered and declined... or not offered at all... the team and player can still negotiate throughout all of the off-season. Well that's good, because the old way sucks.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 04:04 PM) I would have less gray hair. And I don't want gray hair. Happy to have hair, I just don't want it to be gray. Ahh, the women like the salt and pepper look...just think, they'll call you the "Silver Fox."

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 03:47 PM) As far as I know... First, I wouldn't say the Royals and Indians have an "excellent" chance to win the division next year. The Sox have a better chance than just about any team in the division. You're understating the Sox ability within the Central. Second, what benefit of the doubt does anyone deserve? I completely understand why people were confused about that trade at the time, so then why didn't they just say, "I'm not sure about this. I wonder what they're thinking. I'll guess we'll see how it plays out." Instead of saying, "Kenny Williams doesn't know what he's doing! He should be fired on the spot! This is the dumbest trade I've ever seen!" I mean, what's the purpose of losing your proverbial breath in anger over a trade you don't understand? If you admit you don't know everything about the details of the trade and don't know the full story about the players involved, how can anyone be so damn positive that it is a "horrible trade?" What's wrong with being level-headed and asking, "what do they know that I don't?" And if they do deserve the benefit of the doubt, doesn't the GM deserve the same? Afterall, it's not like he has this history of awful trades. Sure, he has some questionable moves, but he hits more than he misses. I don't think the general public was aware of it, but many teams were quietly very concerned about him at the time. Well, you should be happy people tend to have extreme, knee-jerk reactions, Mr. Rongey. This helps pay your paycheck, doesn't it? Can you imagine the state of sports radio if everyone sat back and thought, "hmm, interesting, what do they know that I don't?" As for the thing with Freddy's arm issues, I agree, I am sure there were teams around baseball that were concerned about his health. I was just speaking for this forum.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 12:18 PM) Does anyone know if this is still true or not? Free Agency Arbitration Free Agency arbitration differs from reserve clause salary arbitration in that the player may ultimately choose which team controls his rights. When a player reaches free agency, there is a cutoff date by which his team can choose whether or not to offer him arbitration. If such an offer is made, it extends the exclusive negotiating window between the player and the team that held his rights. If no such offer is made, or if the player declines an offer of arbitration, the player cannot re-sign with that team until May 31 of the following season. Once a player accepts arbitration, his rights are assigned to that team for the next full season and a hearing is scheduled as part of the arbitration process (see below). As with reserve clause salary arbitration, a player and the offering team can avoid arbitration by agreeing to contract terms prior to the hearing. Otherwise the arbitration process moves forward.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 11:16 AM) We could debate all day who the best 2B in the AL is. I think we can all agree that even if Pedroia foolishly moves over to SS, that in no way shape or form leaves Gordon Beckham as the "premier 2B in the AL," as Quinarvy stated. Agreed. Second base has become very strong in the AL recently, much like SS was back at the beginning of the decade.

Great work in here guys. Thanks to all, and especially, Kal, for your efforts. "So I say to the Dalai Lama, 'How about a little something, you know, for the effort?'"

Yeah, Cano had an amazing year offensively, and Zobrist had a huge year both offensively and defensively. Dismissing Kinsler as having 1 good year is a bit crazy, IMHO.

We can all look back and say that we knew Freddy had arm problems, but I didn't see too many posts in that thread saying anything about arm troubles. It appeared Freddy was losing his fastball that year, but I think most people thought it was more "dead arm" than anything. If you look at Freddy's whip that year, he posted something like a 1.28, which is very respectful for a starter. Apparently he was just allowing a lot of big hits at the wrong time, because his ERA was over 4.5, and that's with a very solid last month or so. I think what helped Kenny was Freddy coming on strong in his last few starts and recapturing some of his value. Getting Floyd and Gio wasn't exactly a huge haul, considering Gavin's performance to that time, but Kenny was very confident that they would be able to fix his mechanical issues, stating almost immediately that they had analyzed his delivery for a full day before making the trade and finding flaws in it that would allow us to turn him around. But I seem to remember many thinking Gio was the bigger piece to that deal than Floyd. Obviously, things turned out about as well as can be expected with Gavin.

At the time, the contract was pretty steep, especially considering Beltre had always been a player with the tools and the talent, but never quite put together the seasons with the Dodgers that many thought he was capable of. He was constantly on peoples' "sleeper" lists. Then all the sudden he busts out in his FA year in an era marred by obvious steroid users. Let's just say there were some questions...I remember many people think Seattle overpaid to get him to sign there. Additionally, we're talking about a time before advanced metrics were widespread and so I don't really believe his defense is valued as much then as it turned out to be worth. My feeling is that it was a very risky signing that ended up panning out, but not necessarily for the reasons the Mariners thought it would...

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 06:20 PM) Absolutely...something that a lot of people forget is that it was during the Bulls game where the trade was first announced, and the announcers were saying there was a major leaguer involved in the deal coming to the Sox also. I didn't go back and read the thread, so I can't remember who it was (Rowand maybe?). When we found out the trade was just Gio/Gavin, that's when most of us got really pissed. Yeah, Dore announced Rowand was coming back in the trade at one point.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) I'm loving this thread. I'm actually wondering where the person who calls himself "Flash Tizzle" is. His post that includes the following is gold: "I knew Williams would f*** up any potential deal for a starting pitcher." If I find any other good ones, I may have to post. Good stuff. Flash is one of Kenny's harshest critics. You won't find many deals he is a particularly big fan of...

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) Oh wow, there is some good stuff in there. I love the guy that said Floyd "has an attitude problem." Like he knew that. It makes you wonder how people still say things like "they shoulda gotten more" or "Kenny's got some 'splainin' to do." I'm curious if there is anyone still posting here that made one of these types of comments and how they feel about it now. I mean it's one thing to have a gut feeling that it's not a good trade, but to be so absolutely certain it is a failure is another thing. You would think people would learn their lessons. Oh, there are plenty... It's quite funny to see Floyd and Fields for Rocco Baldelli as Fathom's "dream trade."

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 06:34 PM) Oh man...

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) Once Floyd flashed his complete ownage of the Tigers, I think people started to back off and realize that he is much better than the "total bust" label that followed him to Chicago. Remember DA and Pratt telling us he was the worst pitcher in the history of baseball? And I brought up Edwin Jackson and how he was showing signs of improvement, and they said he was the worst-ever too.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 05:25 PM) And until the following season started, they DID miss him in the sense that they thought Kenny got taken to the cleaners in the trade. Hopefully, by now, they understand what a terrific trade it turned out to be for the Sox. Oh. Well that's not how we're going to miss Dotel. We're actually going to miss Dotel's performance, is the point I am making.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 05:58 PM) The point was the attitude regarding his departure: he was worthless while he was here, yet when he was traded, those same people thought the Sox should've gotten more for for him in return. It's the overall undervaluing of players while they're here, yet understanding their value after they depart. Ahh, I agree with that. I thought your point was that once he was gone, people would miss him.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 05:37 PM) kind of like people did with Freddy after 2006. During that season, I took countless calls from people that wanted him run out of town. I told them that once he's gone, they'd miss him. Then of course he gets traded for Floyd and, at the time, just about everyone complained that the Sox didn't get enough for him. Of course, they got Gavin Floyd. But did anyone miss him when he was gone? Garcia was not good in 06' until the last several weeks of the season, when all the sudden he turned into Ed Harris from Major League and almost no-hit the Angels in his second to last start...but I don't think many people missed him, especially when he won like 1 game for the Phillies in 07' before going down with an injury.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) December 7th-10th in Indianapolis You guys should go...it's a lot of fun. Last year it was out here in Vegas at the Bellagio and my friend and I headed over there one night. Saw and met a lot of cool people, including the Ozzeroo, Steve Phillips (no, I did not see his mistress), Mike Scoscia, Terry Francona, Tommy Lasorda, Ron Washington, Dusty "big pimpin" Baker, Ken Rosenthal, Jim Hendry, Joe Nathan, Peter Gammons, and others. It's really a lot of fun, although I am not sure there will be as many personalities this year as Indianapolis clearly isn't Sin City.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 10:28 AM) I know it's a lot of money (not mine fortunately), but I still think that Dotel is the best option out there and personally I would offer him arbitration. The worst that happens is he accepts and we overpay for what should be a quality reliever. JMHO. I think Dotel's been undervalued by most Sox fans as well. I think the best bet is to not offer him arb though and try to resign him to a 2/$6 m deal or something though.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 09:22 AM) For a minor league deal? Absolutely, it hurts nothing, and gives a nice backup plan to Teahen. If Viciedo moves to something other than 3B, it can be done without blocking anyone. I can't really see him getting a major league deal, can you?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 07:24 AM) No doubt he's damn good with the glove, but there have also been times (2007, 2008) when his back was clearly hindering his play. And that's when he could even take the field. I own just one actual, official, White Sox jersey - and it has the name CREDE on the back. He was one of my favorite players to watch play defense. I'm just saying, unfortunately, his health is a huge issue, and his bat hasn't been consistently good since 2006. I bought a WS Crede road jersey after 05'. Unfortunately someone broke into my condo a few months later, and that is one of the things they took. Darn crooks! If the guy would sign a minor league contract - and we may be the only organization he would do that with - I would definitely sign him up.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) No, i am reading CURRENT playmate girlfriend http://deadspin.com/5415494/same-person-ke...girlfriend-says Apparently Grady has a little stalker who is causing them both some problems. The photos were stolen, not leaked Even more exciting!