iamshack

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 09:07 AM) So I'm missing one thing here, what is the additional risk that we'd have to take on to apply pressure to them? No matter what we do the calculus isn't going to change - there are only a handful of teams left who could offer an appropriate price, and until more than 1 of them decides he's a priority the other teams can wait for our price to fall. What can the White Sox do to change this dynamic other than drop his price or wait? You tell them if they wait, the price increases. If you allow the Pirates the luxury of waiting until June or July to see how their big league team is faring, you take on the risk that Quintana will either injure himself or his performance will degrade, thus affecting his value on the market. To me, a few posters have nailed it on the head - there just is not a lot of real pressure on the Pirates to fork over what the White Sox want right now, particularly if they are looking up at the Cubs and saying "what are the odds..." But let's say they are competing in late June or early July and they need to add SP. Then they come knocking. You are going to let them have the same deal we asked for in the offseason? Maybe you will...but you need to make them believe that if they want to play hardball today, during the offseason, that they should fully expect that we will play hardball with them if they come back at the deadline. You have to at least make them believe there is that threat. For me, if I was Huntington, and I believed in my team, and I really like Quintana, that might just be enough to put me over the edge and just get the deal done now.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) And even so, that offer is more than vast majority of league could offer as their framework. Glasnow + Newman? A lot of teams have the ability to beat that offer.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away? That's exactly right. So you must wait until they do feel pressure. However, that requires you to take on additional risk yourself. We just need to remember that when Huntington comes calling when the pressure IS on them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 08:22 AM) If we're serious about making an appropriate deal I don't believe that will be the case (unless the value of the player goes up due to improvement in the player's performance). Our job here is to make the White Sox world series champions and that means acquiring as much talent as possible. If we aren't offered enough talent for our players, we should avoid moving them until someone offers an appropriate talent level. If that team had refused to meet your demands in the offseason and then they come to you midseason with a truly fair offer, do you turn it down to be vindictive? That might fit in "The Art of the Deal", but it's bad baseball GMing. We clearly have had some "issues" in the past with the nationals as an organization, yet when they put a strong deal on the table for Sale and Eaton we were content to do business with them. Well don't misunderstand what I'm writing. This isn't about being vindictive. It's about doing the same thing to them as they are to us. They are moving the market through their negotiating tactics. As to the bolded, honestly you shouldn't find yourself in this position often enough for it to really matter, but I do think you need to push back on these teams a bit. These other teams recognize that we are anxious to keep moving the ball on this rebuild, and yet they have no real pressure on themselves at the moment, and so they aren't offering appropriate value. What needs to happen is pressure needs to be applied to them. If they have every belief that they can take a wait and see approach, seeing where things stand in June and July, then we need to make sure they understand we will not take that risk of holding on to him for another 6 months without compensation. That is good baseball GM'ing. Good negotiating skills are a large portion of a GMs skillset.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) Asking for Bell is no where near asking for Betts. That's ridiculous. I don't buy this line of thinking anyways. It's the damned offseason. This is one of the reasons to transact in the offseason, so you have an opportunity move some pieces around as a response to a big acquisition. We've allowed these GMs to define conditions, simply because they don't want to move ANY pieces from their MLB roster. Now they're trying to define even further conditions, such as they won't move their top prospects, because they could POTENTIALLY be contributors to the MLB roster next year. While its unavoidable that the market will truly set the price for Jose, and even other assets, I think we need make these teams very much aware that they will pay a premium (should they hold this line) for approaching the transaction this way. Should they come back later, when their is true pressure on them to make an acquisition, the price will indeed be significantly more.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) Is there just the one style? I thought there were different models. Just one bike.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:53 PM) Which bike did you get? Peloton

Second ride in the books. Took another 30 minute advanced beginner class. Different instructor. Different class. I've enjoyed both of instructors and classes thus far. Bike has performed perfectly in all facets. I can tell I'm going to enjoy this already. Not only is it an outstanding workout, but because your output is calculated throughout the entire duration of the class, there is a way to measure yourself against other riders. In real time, a leaderboard is consistently showing your placement against all other riders who have taken the class. I've finished in the top 15% or so in both of my first classes, which is a very motivating factor for me. I've had a little trouble getting the heart rate monitor to work. I'm going to do some digging this evening and see if I can get it figured out. I'll keep reporting back.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) Look, I'm not trying to be a dick and enjoy discussing fan-generated trade proposals, but they got to be somewhat in the realm of reality to merit discussion. Your trade proposal has a 0.1% chance of happening and isn't going to generate any productive conversation on this board. You could always ignore his hypo.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) Please post what you think of it. I'm intrigued by the peloton for winter training... Took my first class this afternoon. First spin class ever, actually. Was an on-demand class (recorded earlier), but everything went perfectly. Streamed without any skips or blips. This was an advanced beginners class, as I am new to spinning, but well-versed in interval/circuit training, in fairly decent shape, etc. Didn't want it to be too easy. The bike itself is awesome. Incredibly well-built. Absolutely silent. I could tell it was solid and I was safe at all times. The class was great. As it was a beginners class, the gal sort of eased into some of the terminology, but because it was somewhat advanced, I felt like I got a great workout. The bike measures and displays on the monitor your cadence, resistance, output, calories burned, heart rate, etc. Everything you need to know and see to follow along with the instructor. I'll keep posting as I take more classes. Hoping to build myself up to where I am comfortable joining a live class in a week or so.

Well I pulled the trigger and my Peloton arrived this morning and is all setup. Very solid, quiet bike. Interface and monitor seems very intuitive. Looking forward to taking my first class tonight or tomorrow morning.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) See that's the funny part. Two months ago, this front office should have been fired, and never allowed to work again. People were hoping the owner of this team would die, so that someone else could own the team. The same people who are posting gigantic lists of failed players now somehow believe that this same front office that brought us all of those players can't be questioned unless you have your own fully detailed plan in place to counter it with. The same people that brought us Rollins, Jackson, Latos et al are still the same people in charge. But now I have people telling me that I should not be allowed to question them, otherwise I might hurt somebody's feelings because they won't believe in the rebuild anymore. Literally nothing at the top has changed, but now they can't be questioned, even when fans have unrealistic expectations. Seriously I feel like I have walked into a Scientology convention. You aren't questioning much at all. You're serving as a black cloud. All you've really done is point out that we're going to be absolutely horrible over the next few years and that will suck.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:36 AM) I said his floor is likely a #4 or 5 starter due to his excellent control. He only walked 19 batter in 130 minor league innings this season His ceiling is probably a #2 starting pitcher, one with plus control and a solid WHIP. Keller is the "safer" of the two prospects, he has had some injury history, but nothing I would worry too much about. Glasnow has the higher ceiling for sure, and his power stuff is tantalizing. He really needs to cut down on the walks though, as more patient mlb hitters will use his wildness to their advantage. Think alot of 10+ strikeout games, but also alot of 6+ walk games...which will lead to very mixed results. My bad.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:24 AM) Meadows is a big sticking point for the Pirates. He is firmly part of their future, and I feel like he is pretty much considered untouchable by the Pirates front office. If he were on the table a deal would likely have been made by now. I don't see them moving Bell, he is expected to be a big contributor to the 2017 team. Trading him is addition by subtraction. Glasnow is a boom or bust prospect. If he can fix his control he could be an ace. If he can't cut down his walks it will be his downfall. Keller is a rising prospect with good control. He does not have the ceiling of Glasnow, but his floor might be a #4 or #5 starter given his plus control. The Pirates are likely offering: Pick one of Glasnow or Keller + Newman + Hayes/Tucker/Craig + a flyer White Sox likely believe that is not enough A guy with #4 or #5 potential should not be the headliner in a deal for Q. End of story.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:07 AM) There is zero reason that only one conversation should be had on this site. None. That little speech doesn't change that. Agreed. But that doesn't mean you've got to come into threads where positivity reigns and s*** on all our heads. Start a thread for like-minded folks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:02 AM) If the discussion is being had, I see no reason not to participate. For the love of...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) I never figured you as one who couldn't handle things you didn't want to see. I don't mind you expressing your opinion...but you've done that quite a bit at this point. We get it - you aren't happy with the returns and you're not looking forward to the next few lean years. Heck, I think you've even scared enough folks to result in them beating the same position player drum you're beating. But it's already getting old when you come into threads and deliberately throw water on everyone's enthusiasm just for the sake of making it abundantly clear of what your position on the matter is. Again, we get it - you don't like the returns - and that is your right. But eventually, if you aren't in the mood to attend the party, the appropriate thing to do is to go off and do something else, not try and convince the rest of us to stop enjoying ourselves. You are absolutely right about one thing...the next few years will likely be somewhat depressing. In light of that, allow us to have hope for the years to come after that, because that's really all we have anymore.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) Someone here is praying the rebuild fails so he can simply post he told us so. Yeah, he's making damn sure he's on the record all over the place.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) You can have whatever you want. I just don't see it as very realistic. Great. Go piss in someone else's cheerios, Mr. Sunshine.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:31 AM) Again, assuming the Sox find some actual position players to start slotting in at some point. Realistically, 2017 is a lost year. None of the players we are talking about will be on the opening day roster. They will all be in the minors. The front end of this group looks like it should start coming up mid season or later. Optimistically guys like Gio, Lopez and Moncada get a half a year on the major league roster. This season will be loaded with 4A and has been players playing everywhere. 2018 should be the first full season for a the front end of these guys. The rest of the guys are years away. The end of 2018 is super optimistic for guys like Basabe, Kopech, Dunning, and Collins. They are probably looking at 2019 to debut, and maybe start contributing. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 2018 as the worst year of the rebuild, and not 2017. I think you're probably right. You know what the difference is? Now we have hope. We get that you don't, but could you quit trying to crush ours?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) I'll respect Q's request and not use the R word anymore. But wtf are you thinkin'? lol. Now if you're shook, I understand. I know what it's like to be shook. Otherwise, you're not making any sense. I just want you to know, I am stealing this as my new signature.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) I know. I'm so glad I'm not a GM. It would be so stressful. I think it's much more stressful for us

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 09:25 AM) So either nobody knows what's going on or Bob is leaking stuff for us. The ladder does indeed seem pretty likely. How very Gagesque of you... Also could be the Yankees countering the White Sox leak with one of their own...

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) I'm not convinced we'd get THAT much more for 4 years of control vs. 3 years (or 3.5). Certainly not the same additional value as trading an elite pitcher with one year of control. There are diminishing returns on the back end. We shouldn't be greedy, but if the right deal isn't there, we can afford to wait. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. While generally, 4 years of control is preferable to 3, these trades don't exactly work off a scale like the NFL draft picks do or something. While I think it is optimal to acquire him now if you are another team, I don't think it is that big of a deal if you have to move him in 6 months or even a year from now. One thing I will add though, and I wrote this earlier in the thread, if one of these teams that is kicking the tires on Q now comes back in desperate straights in July, I am making them pay a premium for forcing me to go into the season with Q. Make them pay some consideration for their wait and see approach.

This game against the Expos in 2004 I remember being so amped up by Juan Uribe and thinking we really may be on to something here.