iamshack

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 06:22 AM) I really think a deal happens with the Astros pretty soon. I'm going to predict a Martes, Tucker, Reed, & Laureano package. That may feel light to some, but Reed was a top 30 prospect just 12 months ago and Laureano appears to be criminally underrated. Short of the Pirates offering Meadows, I think I take that deal, although I'm pretty high on Tucker. I get the sense something happens soon as well. I'd like to see Tucker/Fisher/Perez/Laureano/Reed.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 07:50 PM) Then call their bluffs and don't trade him. The other teams are waiting for the Sox to lower their demands because they all know the Sox want to trade him. Just don't trade him and maybe they will be forced to trade later. Yeah, agreed. I just find the whole notion preposterous.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 07:26 PM) This is exactly how I view the situation as well. The Red Sox were ultimately willing to give up Moncada because he is ready midseason 2017 at the earliest, and more likely midseason 2018. If the window isn't opening, it's closing, so they wanted to open it a little more. Bregman is apart of the Astros' current window, and the philosophy in Pittsburgh dictates that they have suitable replacements for current players. My prediction would be that I don't foresee Jose Quintana playing with Andrew McCutcheon, unless some 3rd party ponies up to acquire both of them. I think if the Pirates acquire Quintana, they'll probably send McCutcheon out for prospects and will either fill their outfield from within or have Melky included with the Sox picking up the majority of the tab while the Sox acquire another player in the deal (not Meadows). I would also imagine a McCutcheon deal happens prior to a Quintana deal, so while it may look like a 3 way trade, it would would actually be two separate trades between 3 teams, with the Pirates being the middle man. I just get annoyed that we allow teams to expand this notion of not moving players at the trade deadline from the mlb team to a full-blown we won't move players in the offseason that are part of a team's contention window. To me, that is a steaming hot load of bulls***. A player of Quintana's caliber and contract terms justifies a little moving and shaking to the rest of the roster in my opinion. Not only that, but it results in the White Sox being forced to take more risk on players by definition, as those who have less risk associated with them will now be part of the god damned contention window. So now you are accepting players further away from the majors, or else players the team itself sees no immediate use for. I have a very difficult time accepting this.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) I agree with this. I'm in the minority on this board but I'd absolutely take DeShone Kizer at 3. His Texas game was better than any QB in this class. He has obvious flaws but he has a big time arm, ran pro style stuff, makes ridiculous throws, stands in the pocket, can move around, and is said to be incredibly intelligent and will impress in workouts and on the whiteboard. His games against Texas and Virginia this year were great. I watched his game against Clemson from 2015 and there were a ton of dropped balls. He would be my guy. I agree with the bolded...I remember that game as well and he led a second half charge that was pretty unreal IIRC.

Eight rides in. Setting or pushing new output thresholds with each ride. Building up leg strength. Am out of the beginner rides and into the regular rides now. Still finishing in the top 20% or so. This thing is very addicting, folks.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:03 PM) Time for which trade you'd prefer: Trade A: Quintana + Frazier for Bregman + Martes + Stubbs Trade B: Quintana for Martes + Tucker + Stubbs + Fisher + Laureano Trade A.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 02:52 PM) Let's not talk in absolutes. He said he doesn't think Tucker would be in a deal due to the Astros thinking highly of him. Only the Sith talk in absolutes.

Jeesh, people are down on this guy. I hope scouts don't view the guy the way some folks tend to view him by just looking at his year-end WAR totals. The guy has shown the ability to absolutely mash for extended periods of time, including against elite pitching. The entirety of his body of work has basically included his experience of leaving Cuba and transitioning to life in the US, and to playing professional ball at the highest level. I tend to think he has handled things quite well, all things considered. Jose is absolutely the LAST guy on this team I have a desire to move, considering his skillset, his demeanor, the way he goes about his business, etc. He is a consummate professional and an outstanding role model for our young players, particularly our young spanish-speaking players. That being said, should the guy pick up where he left off in the second half last year, one would think he should absolutely bring back a few top prospects should bats be in demand come July.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) Based on what we've heard whispered, I think in every case Hahn is holding out for the top line guy in each system - Yankees, Astros, Pirates - and just waiting for one of them to blink. I hope it is a little more nuanced than this, but that's the general idea, yes. For instance, I don't care for Martes/Tucker as much as Meadows/Glasnow or Torres/Frazier. But if the Astros refuse to move Bregman, than I hope the ask by Hahn obviously compensates for the fact that Martes/Tucker may be a tier below the Pirates and Yankees top line guy(s).

So interestingly I took a day off from the bike after 6 days on it. Played basketball instead. By far the most energy I have had in months. So we know this...the bike is helping the lung capacity...just need to continue working on the leg strength.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 08:00 PM) Appreciate all the responses! If the Sox are determined to get positional prospects,which I would understand, I can't see us matching up to well. I would trade Albies only because his best position is SS, which he would be playing if not for Swanson. Not sure how the Sox fan base or brass feels about Anderson, but skepticism for his lack of patience would make Albies an attractive SS option. Our top three hitting prospects are Albies, Matian, and Acuna. As the new rankings come out by BP, Pipeline, Keith Law, some of you may be surprised how closely All three rank. I just can't imagine trading two of those three. Not that it isn't a justifiable asking point. I think Albies is the MOST available, not because of his talent but because of position depth. If Newcomb is a sufficient second piece I think a deal could be workable depending on the tertiary piece. I believe Riley(3b and probably our fourth best position prospect) could be had or one of our further away high ranking SP arms. If the sticking point is Acuna or Maitian I'd imagine the Braves won't bite. Just my perspective as a fan of course, but our front office seems loathe to trade from our lack of power prospect depth. I'd like Acuna ahead of Albies at this point I think. I'll bet the holdup with the Braves is exactly what you're alluding to. The White Sox want two of Albies/Acuna/Maitan, and the Braves are balking. I may be in the minority, but the Braves pitching prospects don't excite me a whole lot.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) They need to collect as many picks as possible in this draft and have to hit on most of them. If that doesnt happen then next offseason will be much much worse for them. How many is "most of them"? I still think you are a bit off on just how far away they are. They just need to get this thing rolling downhill a bit. They are getting there... Just look at the Cowboys.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 07:42 PM) I have yet to see a former GB receiver excel outside of GB during Aaron's tenure. Same can't be said for Brady. Moss and Welker were both studs for other teams and obv Gronk would be a stud anywhere (when he's healthy). Outside of Jordy, I'm not convinced Rodgers has ever worked with an elite WR. He makes guys like Davonte Adams look like top receivers when really he's just another guy on a team like the Bears. This is another myth that Rodgers has all these great receivers while Brady has nothing. Any one happen to catch how great these stud receivers were when Scott Tolzein and Matt Flynn were starting at QB a few years ago? I'm confident Randall Cobb is pretty solid.

They're both locks for the HoF, so just leave that be. I'd say they are both incredible, and I'd add Peyton to this list as well. They are all different quarterbacks, amazing in their own ways, and I consider myself lucky to have been able to watch pretty much all of their careers (obviously Aaron still has a ways to go).

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 04:50 PM) Good to hear. Biking has always been super difficult for me for whatever reason. I'm in pretty good cardio shape(I can run forever) but spinning will kill me right away. Yeah, I mean I am finding my leg strength is my biggest weakness. I can keep up with the pace, but sometimes I struggle to stay in the saddle when the resistance levels increase to a certain level. I can't run for s*** unless I am playing some sort of sport. The instructors are pretty hot too.

5 rides in...totally addicted. What an awesome workout.

I'd just let him have the first half to see what he can do, and then move him at the deadline.

QUOTE (striker @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 01:17 PM) Sickels Pirates top 20. Rates Keller higher than Bell. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/31/...spects-for-2017 I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20. To me, that is a fair framework.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 07:34 AM) That's nice but Hahn told us all we will know what direction they are going with the first move of the offseason. I'm not gonna pick nit about it, the point is people need to relax and stop with the impatience and doomsday declarations. Strap in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride Yeah, nothing is fizzling...it's just a matter of it being a loooooonngg process that will be a struggle to be patient through. Just wait til AFTER the Q trade...then we'll really all be twiddling our thumbs.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 04:35 PM) This is something the Sox have seemed to covet in their first 2 trades this year, though. That's what I posted. We're on the same page.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Yes, but the tremendous value in prospects traded can be expressed in dollars as well. At the end of the day, more options means a worse market. Quintana's value also decreases even if he pitches like he did last year, because of a year less control. It isn't that he won't be a good asset next year, but there's no reason to believe that the offers we're getting now aren't the best ones that will ever show up. It's not a certainty, because who knows who else will enter the fray next year, but it is clearly unlikely. I fully understand what you are saying, but I'm just not sure the market is as precise or disciplined as you might think. I'm not concerned about the extra year of control as much as I just would like us to continue moving forward with this plan. Obviously, the return at this point is more important than the timing, but at some point, you'd like to be able to say "ok, I've moved my three primary pieces and this is what it looks like now that the dust has cleared." I guess we'll just wait and see.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 12:19 PM) The price DOESN'T increase, though. Next year's free agent SP class is fantastic, and a bunch of those guys are going to be available at the deadline. You're (all) right that we shouldn't feel the need to move Q for a weak deal, but this is STILL the best opportunity to move him in the foreseeable future, so the goal still absolutely needs to be moving him now. And I'll reiterate again that his "value" has nothing to do with what Chris Sale or other comparable pitchers got in return -- it has to do with how many suitors there are and what those suitors are willing to pay. Every time a guy moves (like Sale) the market changes, because the highest bidder just left the room. Isn't that where a lot of Quintana's value lies, though? In his contract? What about next year makes you think that these pitchers aren't going to be commanding deals in the realm of 3 times what Quintana makes? I'll be frank, as long as Quintana continues to perform, I am not concerned with market liquidity, because Q is going to stack up as an outstanding asset no matter how developed or diverse the competition.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) IF the Pirates put Meadows on the table I think this would be done without Glasnow. Agreed.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) The worry with Glasnow remains control. His stuff is serious, his K-rate is serious, but he has one truly substantial issue in that he has more 1 walk every 2 innings or more at basically every one of his minor league stops. That's comparable to Fulmer last year or Rodon as a rookie and almost 3 times the rate of Chris Sale. There's no reason for me to say that he can't improve upon that, but that's because I'm not a major league scout. What I will say is that if you're down on him, it's because your organization believes he will struggle to make progress on that issue. So, there is reason to at least be hesitant on him, if you think that is a problem you can't solve. If you think that's a problem you can solve, go for it. A guy with outstanding stuff and poor control has never been something the White Sox have strayed away from. If the Pirates' offer is Meadows, Glasnow +, I have a hard time believing the deal hasn't been worked out yet. IMO, the Pirates are most likely balking on the first piece.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) Unless you're a Jedi, I don't see why the Pirates would believe that statement. They should absolutely expect we're going to force them to pay a high price at the deadline, but they should expect that because we're going to force teams to pay a high price right now and we've already forced 2 teams to pay high prices. You said yourself you're not willing to punish a team for not putting a good deal on paper now. Stating that you will do that and then being unwilling to do that doesn't seem like a very skilled negotiation tactic to me. If they held onto McCutchen, found themselves 1 game back of the Cubs, and decided to move Meadows in June, you wouldn't say no to that and neither would I. Do you believe they are offering Meadows today? I don't think they are. I didn't say I was unwilling to do it, I've just said I'm not sure whether I would walk away from a deal that I wanted to make simply because it was the same deal I was offered and passed on, prior to being forced to take on additional risk. There are all sorts of moving parts here. There is virtually ZERO chance that all things will be the same in June/July as they are now. Ultimately, we need to make deals that benefit the organization, as you mentioned earlier.