Clarkdog

With this bunch, we should just worry about taking care of our own business. I think the minute the Sox start to scoreboard watch, they start to slide. That is the curse of this team, the minute they know they are in a race they start to play stupidly, once they are out of it they relax and play to their capability. Don't worry about them (Royals, Twins). Concentrate on the games that the Sox are playing, that is all they can control.

Veal's older brother (Ronnie) was a quarterback for the U of A football team in the late 80's, so his name is known in the athletic department, and is likely what is driving his allegiance towards heading for college. His brother wasn't much of a football player, but Arizona is definately one of the top baseball programs in the country. Probably figures that he'll be taken care of, get a degree, and likely garner a bigger bonus if he plays a little college ball.

yeah im thinking your headed in the right direction....... So speculate away - I looked at the standings and figure IMO these are teams either classified as sellers or on the cusp between buying and selling. I also made the assumption that we wouldn't trade within the division. Then just went through the rosters and looked for "names. I'm sure I missed some so have at it.... TORONTO: Delgado, Halladay BALTIMORE: Ponson, Mora TAMPA BAY: Baldelli, Huff ANAHEIM: Percival, Erstad, Anderson TEXAS: A-Rod MONTREAL: Vazquez, Guerrero, Vidro METS: Glavine PIRATES: Giles COLORADO: Helton, Wilson, Walker REDS: Dunn, Griffey, Casey, Boone PADRES & BREWERS: Nothing there.

It may not take 90 games to win the division? How about it won't take 90 games to win the division? Minny is royally(no pun intended for the Royals or anything) f***ed, and KC will not win 90 games. I based the assumption of current performance of the Royals. They are playing at .554 - if they keep that pace that will finish with 89 wins. If they collapse - a big if considering the way they keep beating up teams within the division - I don't think they will fall to far from .500. A team will still need to finish at or over .500 to win this division. 82 wins for the Sox is playing at a .544 clip. The focus of the club should be on getting 90 wins. Playing better than mediorce and up to the level of the talent they have in the clubhouse.

The next 14 games will tell the tale. Go 12 - 2 in this stretch and you only need to play slightly over .600 to get to 90 wins. IMO you can't play worse than 10 - 4. If I'm KW, if Detroit or Tampa wins one game - I fire Manuel. Who knows, it may not take 90 wins to take the division.

I'd agree that the Sox will look to dump payroll if the team takes a dump in these four series prior to facing the Royals. But that may have been why KW (to be read: EE, RH1, and RH2) may have made the deal so far in front of the deadline, they still have the flexibility to get out. I think the possibility of Hawk's "Mind Blowing Deal" could happen if the Sox play well and are still buyers before 7/31. But I think the deal depends on whether the team they are talking to know whether they are buyers or sellers at this moment. There are a lot of teams that are on the fence as to whether or not they think they can get in the playoffs. Look at the Marlins, they think the are in it - that's why they go out and get Urbina, and hang on to Lowell. The Cubs thought the Marlins were sellers and held out to get Lowell's price down. Turns out they were dead wrong about Florida's intention, and now they have Jose Hernandez to show for being asleep at the wheel. I think if we want to speculate on where this "Mind Blowing" deal could be look at the teams on the cusp of Wild Card contention. Those that could be buyers or sellers. Then look at guys that are players that could be considered "mind-blowing" if we get them in a trade. HSC, am I on the right track?

Joe Jackson. The only player on this list with a ring as a member of the White Sox.

If you need proof that this team plays with little or no intensity look no further than the last three games: Example one: Second game of the double header, Alomar at first, Lee hits a high bounding ball that straddles the foul line, its fielded by the third baseman who fires to second to force Alomar who walks into the base standing. That play was way closer than it had to be. Clearly Alomar was not hustling down to second because he figured the ball was going to be foul. That's is not a hall-of-famer, that's a guy who is mailing it in. Example two: Wright and the half-assed way he ran that pickle play when he caught Crisp off of third after a ball hit back to the mound. The play lasted so long and was executed so poorly that it allowed the other runners to move into scoring position. It set the Indians up for the big inning and they never looked back. Example three: Second game of the double header, Top 9, Daubach at second, Valentin at first, No outs. The Sox have just scored a run and a threatening for more. Instead of sacrificing and moving Daubach and Valentine to third and second repsectively with only one out, Manuel sends up Konerko, Thomas, and Harris to swing away. At the very least by moving the runners over you take yourself out of the double play and put the tying run in scoring position, and if you hit the ball on the ground towards the middle infield the run at third will score. Instead, Konerko does not sacrifice, he was never sent to do it anyway. And Baez gets him. Thomas and Harris pop out, game over. By sacrificing in that situation the amount of pressure put on the Baez and the Indians defense would have been immense. By not sacrificing, all the Indians has to do was protect against the extra-base hit. When Manuel didn't send up someone to lay down a bunt (if such a things exists on this roster), I knew the game was over. That is textbook losing baseball.

Well el - A thought. Thing cannot get much worse for the Sox at this point, I think I have found some solace in the fact that they can now only get better. Either that Sox are going to find thier way out of this tailspin to come back and win the division; or serious changes to the organization are going to take place. I think the latter is going to be the case. Where will they start? First, Manuel is finished. I know that there have been rumors that he will stay on until the end of the season. KW has said that his job is secure as long as he wins the division. But I think that JR may have to pull the trigger sooner than that simply because Manuel is making him look like a fool. At the end of last season, JR held a meeting in the clubhouse talking of how there was going to a new emphasis on working and playing hard beginning with a boot camp atmosphere in spring training. As the field general, it doesn't seem like Manuel and Reinsdorf are on the same page. Besides, and I've raised this before, is anyone convince that Manuel is the type of manager that can win a playoff series? If you answer no, then he was never right for this job in 2001, 2002, or 2003. Second, KW has made a shambles of this organization. I admire him for having the sand to try and pull the trigger on big deals to make the team better. But the lesson we have painfully learned is that you cannot slug your way to a title. You need pitching, you need defense, and you need speed. Pepper in some sluggers into that mix and you have a championship team. The Alomar deal I liked, the Everett deal was a question mark, because we have too many of that type of player. He just happened to be a switch-hitter. We needed a centerfielder that had speed could get on base and field the position. Everett is not a centerfielder. There is hope in our system: Cotts, Reed, Honel, Borchard, etc; and hope in the bigs: Buerhle, Olivo, Crede, Harris, Mags. These are good players, we need to build the team the right way. We have had a number of players in this system the last three seasons, you cannot convince me that they all suck. If the rumors we have seen on this board are true then we are half way home here. Third, and this is more my hope than anything is that this orgainzation will look for the right people to fill these roles, not simply look within the organization for the best person it has to offer - find the best person regardless of where they come from. If the GM of this team is from inside or outside, great as longs as he/she HAS AS PLAN and knows how and what it will take to figure out what this team needs. And when this person hires the manager that they are the best to see the GM's plan through and that they are lockstep with each other on how the team should play in the field according to THE PLAN. My biggest criticism of both KW, JM, and really the entire organization is that they appear to have no plan whatsoever when it comes to running this ballclub. Hope is eternal.

1 - 5 against the worst teams in baseball? As the saying goes "Someone has got to pay!" You can't fire the players. If this were my team - Manuel would be packing his bags.

While I'd love to have Edmonds, this deal only oppens up a new hole in the pitching staff. Buehrle has won 5 straight, we need that arm to win the division and play deep in the playoffs. If you could find a way to get Edmonds w/o Buehrle it's going to be very expensive. And I don't think the Cards would do it.

Here we are on July 8 with 23 days left until the trading deadline. Though this organization has baffled me in the past with its personel moves, I believe some actual strategic thinking may have been factored in making the moves for Alomar and Everett as early as they did. Consider the following remaining schedules of the Sox, Twins, and Royals though July 31: Royals: 3 @ANA, 3 @TEX, 4 SEA, 2 OAK, 2 @MIN, 3 @DET, 3 SOX Twins: 3 @TEX, 3 @ANA, 4 OAK, 2 SEA, 2 KC, 3 @CLE, 3 BAL White Sox: 3 @DET, 4 @CLE, 4 DET, 2 CLE, 2 @ TOR, 3 TB, 3 KC Now taking into account the winning percentage of these teams against the AL Central: ANA: 1.000 (but let's assume they will win more than they lose, not win all of them) TEX: .333 SEA: .800 OAK: .600 MIN: .468 DET: .176 KC: .763 CLE: .540 BAL: .440 TOR: .545 TB: .400 SOX: .513 Coming into the final series of month it is possible that the three team could fair as such: Royals: 8 - 9 Twins: 8 - 9 White Sox: 11 - 7 That means the records at that point could be as follows leading up to the 3-game series in KC: Royals: 55 - 48 .533 -- White Sox: 54 - 51 .514 2 Twins: 52 - 52 .500 3.5 I personally believe the Sox will play better than 11-7, but I don't think the Twins and Royals will play better than .500. So the Sox could end up in first place going into KC. The Sox have a tougher road to hoe in August and September, the Twins have the easiest. But I think the Sox as a club right now are better equipped to handle the stiffer competition than they were. Dealing for Alomar and Everett before this stretch was key, because the hope is to maximize the Sox play when the opportunity to strike at the lead is best. But if they falter in this stretch a play at 9 - 9 clip or worse, the Sox can still recover from a personel standpoint and possibly deal themselves out before the deadline. I think KW (or whoever is in charge) is going to wait to see how much the 4.5 game lead can be cut into before the All-Star game before making that last deal for some bullpen/pitching help that could get us over the top.

After that AB tonight in the 12th, he should make it. If not Scioscia should have his head examined.

you noticed...... exactly......... So Steff and HSC - Who's behind it? Who is pulling the strings - EE and Rick Hahn? In any case I love the thinking you pick up two quality major league players who may be free agents next year. But, if I understand this correctly, as long as you tender an offer to them that they choose to reject and opt for free agency, the Sox will receive a compensatory draft pick sandwiched between the 1st and 2nd round. So for Alomar - what did we really give up? Royce Ring. I think it's fair to say the other player in that deal - Almonte and Salvo were not projected by the front office to make big contributions to the major league club. For Everett - we don't know yet. But it's encouraging to hear that guys like Rauch and Honel are not among the list of eight players to choose from. You could speculate that it would extend to guys like Borchard and Cotts as well (keep your fingers crossed). But there is likely to be a jewel in the deal for the Rangers. So another front-line prospect is lost with two mid-level prospects. With Alomar, Everett, Colon, Valentin, Daubach, Gordon, White, perhaps Thomas (I think that's all of them) potential free agents at the end of this season - the Sox could get up to EIGHT compensatory draft picks. That means they could have up to 9 or 10 of the top 100 players selected in the 2004 draft. To me that more than makes up for the prospects we are dealing. Granted these guy all start from square one. Plus in 2004 you still have a fairly decent core group of players: Buehrle, Loiaza, Garland, Wright, Koch, Konerko (if he can come around), Harris, Olivo, Crede, Lee (if feel like they might keep him now), Rowand, Maggs, etc. That's not too shabby. Is this a pipe dream, is my logic off? Let me know.

Don't get me wrong I am excited! Here are the emotioncons to prove it>: I just wasn't sure if he's lost a step on the basepaths. He's an incredibly smart base runner and has sound fundamentals as a situational hitter. The thing I like best though is that getting Alomar says to the team and the rest of the league that we mean business.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Alomar move. I think his glove, bat and experience could be a huge plzus for a pennant run. But as a team, did we just get slower? Where does Harris fit in? I like his speed at the top of the lineup. Is Alomar a leadoff guy? Methinks not. I like him hitting second A LOT. But does that put Willie back in CF? Or does he platoon with Rowand? Who is the odd man out?

Who replaces Wright (I would not move Garland)? I'd go with Josh Stewart. When it comes to holes in the ballclub, I rather be stronger up the middle and on the basepaths everyday than have a good 5th starter. As for this deal being a pipe dream, it may be. But the Marlins need to make a choice: Castillo or Lowell. My feeling is they want to keep Lowell and would look to reduce salary in other areas to keep him long term and sign him to a extension or in this offseason. At the same time, they're going to want something for Castillo rather than lose him to free agency. In Wright, Jimenez, and Rowand, they address needs in pitching and lowered payroll and fill the gaps left by Pierre and Castillo.

In response - I don't know if I would be willing to sub Garland for Wright in this deal. I think the upside on Garland is too high, he starting to show why he was a #1 pick. In terms of another minor league arm, I'd consider it but only for a mid-level prospect. If I'm the Sox, I lose Castillo at the end of the season, so I only net Pierre and a compensatoiry draft pick. That draft pick could make of for the loss of the prospect and some of the other players. As for Pierre's defense - from ESPN: Pierre struggled in center field when he first came up, but he has addressed his shortcomings and has worked hard to become a solid center fielder. His arm strength is well below average. He's never going to have a rocket, though he's made strides in quickening his release and getting to balls quicker to slow down baserunners.

Lots of talk about guys like Ponson, Alomar, Castillo, etc. floating around. I think our need centers around help up the middle and and overall team speed. I like the idea of Alomar, but he's got a hefty contract, and his best years may be behind him. His numbers are projecting lower for 2003. I think a deal with the Marlins may have what we need to get over the hump. White Sox to Marlins: Danny Wright Aaron Rowand D'Angelo Jimenez Marlins to White Sox: Juan Pierre Luis Castillo The rationale for this deal is based upon the Marlins desire to reduce salary while being able to keep Mike Lowell. Lowell is going to demand a big payday a year from now, but Castillo's contract is up before his. I don't think the Marlins are going to deal Lowell to anyone - he's a keeper. In addition, the Marlins have lost three of thier frontline starters and would likely smile on a deal that brought MLB experience to the mound. For the Sox, you get a great pair of table setters for your 3-6 hitters. looking at the stats DJ's number may be similar to Castillo, but I think the intangible of DJ's laziness/lack of concentration cant be ignored. Plus I love Pierre, he's a real leadoff hitter and an improvement in CF. I love Rowand and his hustle, but we need contact and speed at the top of the lineup. In this deal I also thought about Willie Harris as a substitue for DJ or Rowand, but if Castillo departs in 2004, you still have Willie who then can play 2B, and it allows you to bring up Miles in 2004 to compete with him for the job.

Since this is being talked about on a number of threads, I figured I start a thread to bring the braintrust together on the best route to take toward the 7/31 deadline. The fact we are even talking about this is exciting and I think - like in '83 - the right move could propel the Sox to the division title and beyond. So here's the proposition - you get one move. What's it going to be, and justify your reason.

of playing like a team and their great chemistry is really being put to the test.... From CBSSportsline: The Twins, losers of four straight series and nine of their past 13 home games, seem to have lost that feel -- putting manager Ron Gardenhire on edge. "We thought we'd come out with a little more fire," Gardenhire said. "I know Buehrle pitched very well, but it was disappointing the way we went after the game like that. I didn't think we had much out there. Guys were lobbing balls between innings. "It's pretty frustrating to watch." Denny Hocking, who singled in the ninth and scored on Koskie's double that missed landing in the seats by inches, was taken aback by his manager's comment. "If he doesn't think we came to play, he ought to look at the tape and see how Mark Buehrle was pitching," Hocking said. Sounds like a lot of love in that clubhouse. Hope the Sox can keep the pressure on.

That's an awful lot of underperforming salary to take on for any team to get greater value in a contact/situational hitter and bullpen help in return. Koch and Konerko's value is too low to get anything meaningful back for them, and frankly we know that historically these guys are better than they are performing right now. We would just be asking to be fleeced in the deal.

I don't see how Konerko can work out of this slump without playing time. However, we cannot afford to play him right now. Daubach and Thomas are producing (sort of) far better that if Konerko is in the mix. I'm sure this has been brought up, but what is preventing Konerko from being sent down to Charlotte to get some regular ABs? If I were him, that's what I feel like I'd need to get back. I understand it's a pride thing, but right now he looks he is dead weight on this team. There is no pride in that.

Totally agree. I won't blame the umpire for the loss, but it's hard to have an approach to hitting or pitching when you have no clue where the strike zone is. Two cases in point, when in Colon's first at-bat he got strike called on him that was easily 6 inches off the outer edge. When he went out to pitch the following inning, he kept trying to hit that corner to find out where the edge of the strike zone was. That edge kept changing on Colon and Zambrano all day, so it's no wonder that they both had about as many walks as strikeouts. Marte, didn't have the same benefit. When out in a tight situation after getting O'Leary and then giving up the gork to Grudhsjkdfhwe; he needed to try and get Martinez to hit his pitch (to get the DP or K). When Marte attacked that outer edge on Martinez he missed with a fastball which was a outside, but then clearly hit the corner with his breaking ball, but that too was called a ball. So Marte on 2-0 had no choice to throw a fastball toward the middle of the plate because, at that moment, the corner wasn't being called. Martinez got a pitch he could drive, and you know the rest. My point is that the players only desire consistency in how balls and strikes are called. That game was confusing for all of them because it seemed the zone kept moving depending on who was up. Frankly, I'm surprised no one got tossed yesterday for arguing balls and strikes.

With that pop out in the 4th - Konerko is now under the Mendoza line. We were talking about this guy as an MVP last year. He is such a disappointment.