Jenksismyhero

Well that's a kick in the balls. Apparently there might not be enough bowl games for the bowl eligible Big Ten teams. I'm sure Illinois would be the first team out. Need Wisconsin to beat Ohio State in order to get the bid.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:51 PM) It was on his clothes, but he scrubbed it off of his face and hands. That he was even allowed to go back to the station by himself with his own weapon used in a shooting that killed someone speaks to remarkably poor police work. I don't know that i have an issue with him washing the blood of someone off of his body. I wouldn't want that sitting on my face for hours. edit: and why is it problematic that he drove himself back to the station? Or enter his gun into evidence? Was he totally alone? Could he somehow clean the gun of evidence? That he shot Brown with his service weapon isn't really an issue. Maybe the number of bullets shot, but i'm sure they found all or most of the casings on the scene. I admit it doesn't scream "great chain of custody/evidence gathering," but I don't think it changes the ball game either way.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) I was looking for something else and found these series of posts. LOL, nope! They let Wilson drive himself back, alone. Then scrub himself clean of blood and gunshot residue. Then he got to enter his own gun into evidence. And of course there was never any written or recorded statement. How did they find blood on Wilson if he washed it off?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:39 PM) Using this elevated standard of proof in combination with the Ferguson ~both sides~ quasi-trial grand jury process, I estimate our criminal indictment rates will plummet by 90%. Which would drop it from its current rate of 95%. Not getting an indictment on weak evidence should be something you want.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) The NYPD recognized as far back as 1985 that chokeholds are potentially lethal and changed their policy so that officers stop using them. This officer used a chokehold on a nonviolent man suspected of evading a f***ing cigarette tax and his actions directly led to his death. His assault and battery killed Eric Garner. Maybe.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) yeah see that's exactly the problem. Police who engage in brutality use excessive force that's recognized as increasing fatality risk make terrible, tragic mistakes that kill people rarely get charged and even more rarely get convicted. Regular people, not so much. Texas executes people on far, far weaker evidence than this case. I mean I don't disagree, but I still think in my fight example, which this is basically a fight with different stages resulting in a death, a prosecutor isn't going to bring a murder charge against someone without being able to prove causation. From the med examiner's report alone, i think that's difficult to do here because it was one of several factors and the guy was clearly alive and breathing after the choke hold ended.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:22 PM) I honestly think that he should go to jail for some period of time because he put someone in a chokehold, a technique that the NYPD recognized was killing people three decades ago, and killed them. I don't have a problem with an assault/battery charge. Murder or manslaughter? I don't think I can go that far. Not with the info on the internet anyway. If the experts say that the chokehold is the major cause of the death, then I'd be ok with it.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) I'd hate to be defined by a lack of compassion, reason, and logic like you, so we're even. I'd hate to believe that not all people deserve to be treated equally. I honestly pity you. I think i'm being entirely logical. I'm telling you there appears to be a causation problem. You've yet to address that. And I think everyone should be treated equally. Including cops who make terrible, tragic mistakes, but mistakes that don't deserve decades or life in prison.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) End of the day, the indisputable facts are that a police officer used an illegal choke hold on a non-violent perp, and accidentally killed him. That, my friends, is negligent homicide or manslaughter at the very least. And undeniably deserves a f***ing INDICTMENT - which isn't a f***ing CHARGE. You can argue all you want about whether the cop deserves to do time for murder, but THAT'S not the discussion. The discussion is whether or not he deserves to GO THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM like ANY other human being who did what he did. That's not justice, no matter what side of the isle you're on. I mean I suppose that's a fair point, but when you have a video of the entire incident, I again go back to the question of causation. And if experts testified and couldn't say that the choke hold caused the death, well, then, what's the point of a trial other than to appease people like you who want some blood, regardless?

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) so you're saying the fact that this guy was fat absolves the police officer of the responsibility of considering the health of his perp before he attempts an illegal choke hold that could kill someone in this man's condition? got it. even the right wing pundits don't agree with you on this one. lol just absurd. Um, good? I'd hate to be defined by talking heads like you.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) you realize how absolutely ridiculous your reasoning is, right? so the choice that ONE officer made to perform an illegal choke hold on a non-violent man shouldn't matter because two other guys there didn't stop him? I love how Repubs are all "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" until it's convenient. It's not "illegal," it's in violation of NYPD procedures. Violation of a procedure isn't a criminal act. That's assault and battery, not murder. If you get into a fight with someone and they die 2 hours later, that may or may not be manslaughter. But you still have to prove that the fight and whatever damage you did caused the death. What i'm arguing here is that it's not crystal clear that the choke hold lead to the death. That was one of several factors cited by the med. examiner, and who knows what they and other experts testified to during the GJ hearings. And while the guy was non-violent, he was still resisting. Just to be clear. Doesn't make the officer's actions any better, but it does excuse the other officers who handcuffed him. I love how liberals are all "justice for all!" until it's convenient.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:06 PM) So if you shoot someone in a typically non-lethal spot, but they're anemic and they bleed out, that's not on you? See, it's not that simple. A shot and someone ending up dead is usually easy to show the proximate cause. Let's say a cop shoots someone, in the shoulder or chest, something not necessarily life threatening but possibly life threatening, and then that person jumps into a car and immediately gets into a car crash that definitely kills him. Would you charge the cop (or whomever) for murder? I don't think this case is as simple as "choke hold = death." I'm guessing, but i'd imagine that's what the hang up was here for the grand jury.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) If I put someone into a chokehold and they died, I would certainly have a manslaughter or negligent homicide case against me. Totally depends on the circumstances, but maybe. Again though, the choke hold wasn't the only act that caused the death. I'm not sure what the testimony was/would be about how much of a factor it was. Based on that, any cop that handcuffed him and forced him to lie on the ground should also be charged with his death.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) I think what is unfortunate is this gives more ammunition to those protesting over Ferguson when the two cases are completely different, imo. In terms of Ferguson, I don't necessarily think the wrong decision was reached, however, in terms of the NY case with the video, etc, I'm pretty much speechless at how no charges will be brought. The problem is you can't link the guys death directly to that one officer. The med examiner listed the chokehold as one of a number of factors.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) Ah yes, the people of new york should pay for that, not the officer who performed his job so poorly that someone died. You honestly think he should go to jail for the rest of his life for putting a guy into a chokehold for 5 seconds? And really, I think to be logical about it, you'd also have to want to put any officer there on the scene in jail as well, since their decisions to handcuff him and keep him on the ground is the biggest contributing factor to his death.

Probably an unpopular opinion: I kinda agree with the decision not to indict Pantaleo for murder. I mean, the choke hold was for a matter of seconds, and after the choke hold is over he's still alive, still breathing (even if he's saying it's difficult to do so). If you're going to charge Pantaleo, don't you have to charge all of the officers for letting the guy lay there in a position where he's unable to breathe? I think that's a clear civil liability case. No doubt about it, the NYPD should pay. But criminal charges? Decades or life in jail for that? I don't think I can go there.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) Yea, it is supposed to work with your cable or dish carrier I set mine up when the download came through, and just didnt play with it afterwards. I didnt feel like turning on my console everytime i watched tv, and it seems like you need to in order to make it work correctly. with one of the more bizarre love stories i have seen in a video game I haven't gotten to that part yet. I just got to the part with the main bad dude at Haven. I spent more time than I needed to in the Hinterlands I think.

Dragon Age Inquisitions is a lot of fun, for any RPG fans out there.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 12:36 PM) Never even touched TVii, does it work with DirecTV? I haven't tried mine yet. I opened it and it looked like for the Illinois game I could answer trivia questions. I assumed that's all you could do with it.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) Finally started in on Assassins creed III, what a game. Let me know your thoughts when you finish it. It ended up being maybe my least favorite AC game after the first one.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) I'm sure all those protesters set stores ablaze. Because they have nothing better to do. Because they're lazy and don't have jobs... I don't think anyone is ignoring that by and large the protests across the country were peaceful. But there were still morons committing crimes. And there are morons who support the morons committing crimes.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) Is police chief usually an elected position? County sheriff is in Illinois, but not local PD chief. Usually they're appointed, which is why I asked about the mayor. My point being, the people of Ferguson control what happens in Ferguson. Maybe not at the county level, but at the local level. If they think there's some grand injustice going on, take over local politics and the county isn't going to overstep them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:26 AM) The prosecutor who made sure charges didn't happen is the County Prosecutor. Sure, but what about the mayor and police chief?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:20 AM) This assumes that there aren't structural impediments to fair representation by local government for minority citizens deliberately put in place. If they're 67% of the population, elect their replacement.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) Have I ever said it didn't exist? Quit projecting an image that you have of me, because you don't know me. I know it exists. Just saying that instead of rioting and acting like idiots, maybe do something positive like police your community. Join the force. Would be a much more positive action than burning and looting a convenience store. Maybe get that force up to 50% black and see if that helps community relations any. See if it helps to ease tensions and get better police protection. Alpha, come on now, you know there's no problem within the black community. If white cops just left them alone the world would be right again!