harfman77

Seems a lot like Alex Rios before he signed his extension with the Jays. He will always play good defense, though it is likely that he starts to lose a step at this point as he ages and his defensive value will come back to the pack. The bat is never going to be enough to justify what he is going to get. I hope the Cubs sign him, I would love to see him be an anchor around their neck in three years when he is making $20M + a season.

I am not as high on Anderson as most here, I don't think he has the defense to be SS and there aren't a lot of other places for him to play. I would include him in a trade for a lot of guys, but only if I was able to get another SS back in the deal or a corresponding deal.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) Quintana is the type of player that Pittsburgh covets and needs, its amazing that thye have not been attached to him You would think they would be if the Sox let it known that he were available. I think since we haven't heard of interest from a team like Pit, you know that Sox really aren't looking to make a deal involving Q.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) In all honesty, if that kind of overpay package still exists for Quintana, it probably only exists from the Red Sox. They have the ammo and a GM who has a history of selling prospects for dudes he likes. I agree, I don't think DD is done tinkering with that rotation either. It was really bad last season and adding Price is not going to be enough to turn their fortunes around.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 10:06 AM) Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them? Depends on the return, if you are getting MLB ready guys back you should see what you have, if the team seems further away a year from now you can consider trading the other. It would be really difficult to trade to top flight pitchers in the same offseason.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) The Braves have done an incredible job and you're not wrong but the Sox would have to move Abreu/Sale/Quintana/Eaton. The Sox really have no complimentary pieces. Robertson and that's it. 1.) Stars (using the word liberally): Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton 2.) Young assets that are potential building blocks: Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson 3.) Nice young pieces: Thompson, E. Johnson and Montas 4.) Tradable assets in a teardown: Robertson and maybe Jones. My point being, would a tear down like the Braves be possible without anyone notable? I certainly don't think so. However, I think the Sox can swap some younger assets for better fits at positions of need. That being said, if I am them, I am considering selling high on Quintana/Robertson, keeping the QO pick and gambling one 1 yearr FAs (Pearce, Latos, a reliever) that could potentially flipped in July and building for 2017. Especially given how the college draftees have been flying to the Majors recently. Looking towards 2017, the Sox could add a lot of talent by doing the following: 1.) Getting a Miller like haul for Quintana 2.) Getting a good return for Robertson 3.) Getting three top 50 draft picks 4.) Getting a return for 1 yearr FAs that work out. 5.) Getting Anderson, Fulmer, Montas and Johnson to develop. I am on board with that approach. The issues I have are with spending a lot of money on guys that you don't will work in this environment and giving up 2/3 of the value you have in #3 to do so. I think the Sox could pull off a blockbuster with the Astros. Apparently Springer is being shopped and a deal that sent Q and Robertson from the Sox for Springer plus a package of prospects that included guys like JD Davis, AJ Reed and Michael Feliz. Next years team would not be much better, but in the spring of 2017 the Sox would be really poised to make some noise. C ?? 1B Reed 2B Sanchez SS Anderson 3B Davis LF Eaton CF Thompson RF Springer DH Abreu SP Sale SP Rodon SP Feliz SP Fulmer SP Johnson/FA/Danish/Beck CP Montas RP Jones RP Wendelken RP Webb RP Petricka RP LHRP RP LHRP

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 09:41 AM) If the White Sox want to move him, it comes down to 2 possibilities: 1) White Sox agree to pay most of his remaining salary. They don't have a history of doing this. 2) White Sox trade him to a team that has a need for 1B/DH and receive back a player making similar money. This would be the more likely option, but the number of teams that need La Roche is probably on the lower side. If the Sox are paying his salay, how is that clearing money for a big bat? More likely the Sox include some prospects so a team will eat LaRoches contract. LaRoche + Danish to the Rockies for lottery ticket prospect.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 05:47 AM) A haul like what Atlanta got makes me wonder if the Sox FO would reconsider who is " un-tradable ". I looked around a Diamondbacks forum and for the most part fans were not happy with what the Diamondbacks gave up. Hahn has said no one is untouchable in a trade.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 08:49 PM) It frustrates me reading of another team selling high on a player and taking advantage of another team's willingness to overpay to compete. White Sox NEVER make these deals and they desparately need to. And I don't want to hear, "these trades are rare," because it happens every damn offseason and at the trade deadline. We've seen from Kimbrell and now Miller what the return can be for good pitching. Take advantage of it, Hahn I agree, the Sox always seem to sell low in the trade market moving guys that have little value. It would be nice to stock up like the Braves have done. The Braves have done a really great job clearing payroll for the future while getting higher ceiling guys that have a pretty high floor as well.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) If your team is giving up only 1-2 runs and still losing, especially at the Cell, maybe defense isn't your biggest problem. Maybe its your last or close to last place offense. Or maybe we are out of the steroid era and need to get back to playing solid fundamental baseball. The problem is that if you keep trading off defense for offense, the amount of runs you need to score continues to climb so while you may score more runs than you did the season before, its not going to get you any closer to contending.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) My counter is you can't win games 0-0. You need to score some runs. Right now the Sox have no protection for Abreu. They are putrid offensively. In addition, the Sox have guys on their team who project to be very good defensively, but they also need to fill in the gaps of offense. Typically money goes to the offensive player, and little money goes to the defensive player. You can't lose games 0-0 either. If you backup the strength of your team (SP) with a top flight defense, you can win a lot of 2-1; 1-0 type of games. The problem for the Sox is that they are losing those games 3-2 and 2-1 because they can't make the defensive plays to support the strong starting pitching.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) So I'm not going to make some big winded post as what I am posting is purely based upon conjecture (along with some of Hahn's quotes) but I've heard Hahn talk a lot about working to fix our offense, but like last off-season, I've heard so little about our defense? It just makes me go hmmm, have we learned nothing from our struggles the past few years. I realize that good defensive, OBP guys don't grow on trees (and to be frank, OBP and good defense are the Sox two biggest achiles heels) but for us to consistently talk about offense just strikes the wrong chord to me. I have watched a team that has been fundamentally bad for the past few years and last off-season we tried to fix the offense while ignoring defense. Sox deserve the benefit of the doubt cause they have yet to make a move this off-season that made the defense worse, but they also haven't upgraded the defense either (which is fine...only position they addressed was catcher and net net I'd say that move was defensively neutral to slightly positive while offensively having the upside to be positive). I really couldn't agree more. I think this is a case of having a Frankestein off-season plan because we have too many cooks in the kitchen. Nothing that seems like a decisive step into creating an identity for this team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. I think the biggest issue is that there are too many holes on this team. The foundation is not really in place to compete. They have some pretty high end pieces in Sale, Q, and Abreu, but the foundation that those stars rest upon is pretty weak. Which is entirely the reason I think that rebuild makes sense to build a solid foundation. Then you are ready to compete when Sale becomes a FA and you have the chance to sign him back to be the cherry on top of your playoff run.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) 1.) Signing a guy to a nine digit contract is "the most White Sox move ever"? 2.) Upton's defense is average by UZR and above average by DRS. I remember scouts being fond of it too though I can't say that definitively. 3.) Do strikeouts matter when he'll improve big weaknesses with his power and OBP potential. 4.) KW does like Upton a lot. 1. Yes, signing a guy to a contract that will hamstring the purse strings while not addressing deficiencies is such a White Sox move. Ignoring improving things like defense with the thought that HR's are all that matters at the end of the day. Go back and look at the teams that have won the WS since 2010. The commonalities are top shelf defense, good baserunning, and guys that put a lot of balls in play. But the White Sox say screw that, lets hit taters. 2. http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/i...ng-uptons-value He has tools, makes poor decisions. s 3. Yes. It does no good to get someone on base when the guy behind him makes an unproductive out. I believe that the money could be distributed to upgrade multiple positions OBP without costing the Sox draft pick compensation. Power is really overrated by too many people and too many guys are getting a pass on K's. If you get guys on base and put the ball in play you increase your chances of scoring more often. Relying on the HR ball leads to offensive peaks and valleys.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) That's a fair price for Fernandez, I don't see that as exorbitant. Not for a guy that has only thrown 116 innings in the last two seasons and is already arb eligible. One of the top guys plus some other pieces would make sense but not both.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 10:46 AM) I hate seeing the comments that say the Sox should trade Sale because of his "injury concerns". How is he that different from any other pitcher? Yeah, he has a funky motion, but he's so tall and lanky that I don't think it's as bad for his elbow/arm/shoulder as people make it out to be. People have said that he's a TJ surgery waiting to happen since the day he was drafted, and nothing significant has happened to him yet. Knock on wood that nothing ever does. He isn't different. Thats why if you can trade him and re-distribute his value at other positions you are more protected in case one player is injured. .

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:18 AM) I'd be shocked if he was up before September, and more likely 2017. He's not ready. I'm not sure he his defense is ever going to be ready for the position.

This is the most White Sox move ever. Sign a guy that reinforces your weaknesses (too many K's, sub-par defense) at an expense that will hamstring you from improving those areas of weakness and cost you a pick and draft pool money to grow talent in your system. Justin Upton does not make this team a contender. This seems like a KW move all the way.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) ok lets go with bond, playoff time. 1 game... bond vs sale. all things being equal. sale, pitches around bond if the ball is outside the strike zone ok he may swing or not. if not, 4 balls he walks. sale hereby negated bonds at bat. do that 3 more times. so what, sale just took the best weapon had in bond out of the game by walking him. But then Bonds is already on base, which is still a win for his team rather then the 67% chance that he would have gotten out.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 03:16 PM) Using this logic, every position player is more valuable than any pitcher? No, it is saying that if you have a superstar position player and a super star pitcher the position player is more valuable or if you have a replacement level position player and pitcher. Mike Trout is more valuable than any pitcher because he impacts more games.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Why? Say the position player has on average an impact of 10% on each game. If a SP has an impact on average of 50% for each game he plays, then their impact over the course of the season is relatively equal. And once again, that's not counting the impact the SP does have on other games if he goes deep into the game and rests your bullpen. I don't know what the actual percentages are but you get the point. That is at least 140% impact on every game with out accounting for a bullpen. I would put position players at a 7% average and SP at about 32% with the bullpen being the other 5%. SP win impact would 9.92 over a season. (31 starts x 32% impact) Position player impact would be 10.5 (150 starts x 7% impact)

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) Manny Machado had the most PA of any position player this year at 713. 74 pitchers this year faced at least 713 batters this season, position players might have an impact on more games, but their impact on each individual game is pretty marginal compared to the very high impact pitchers have on the games they do pitch. And they also do impact other games. If your starting pitcher gets pulled in the 3rd inning because he sucked then you're using up your bullpen, and will have tired arms for the next game. A SP who goes a complete game will mean you have a rested bullpen for the next game. Manny Machado also logged 1367.2 innings at 3B this season and had 488 defensive chances.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) Boston traded the 25th and 76th rated prospects plus 2 other guys. Overwhelming you say. Reality 2009 25th rated prospect Brian Matusz 76th rated prospect Clint Negoette 2010 25th Carlos Santana 76th Roberto Hernandez 2011 Archie Bradley Jt Realmuto 2012 Archie Bradley Casey Kelly Overwhelming if you like what Phil Rogers rates your minor league system. Pretty underwhelming if you are trying to make your team better. Overwhelming in that they gave that up and more for a closer. 2013 Archie Bradley Michael Wacha 2014 Nick Castellanos Alen Hanson 2015 Archie Bradley JT Realmuto Getting that kind of package back for a guy that plays a 100 innnings a year is a win every time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) Teams don't give that up anymore. That is why, despite all the prospects Boston has to acquire an ace, they overbid every other team by more than $30 million to get Price. You can get lucky, and have some secondary guys pan out, but the overwhelming offer isn't going to be there. I am not sure that Boston is done adding pitching yet either though. They have some big holes in that rotation still.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) Just because a SP only pitches once every 5 days doesn't mean they aren't as valuable as position players. And DA is right, the days of overwhelming prospect offers are over. Everyone loves their prospects now, and GMs are going to be too gun-shy to pull the trigger on the deal it would take, especially with the general risk that pitchers have. What it means is that there are 80% of the games they have zero contribution to winning, whereas position players have an impact on ~95% of games. I understand the importance of good pitching, but good pitching with nothing else around it is worthless.