harfman77

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) Just because a SP only pitches once every 5 days doesn't mean they aren't as valuable as position players. And DA is right, the days of overwhelming prospect offers are over. Everyone loves their prospects now, and GMs are going to be too gun-shy to pull the trigger on the deal it would take, especially with the general risk that pitchers have. I just saw an overwhelming prospect deal for a closer a week ago. Those days are not over, actually I think things are going to start moving more in that direction again since you have a few teams with such a large concentration of prospects that are trying to win now (Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs).

I don't think the Sox are any better at it than anyone else. The difference in the Sox is that there is a lack of national media scrutiny and speculation around the club because they are just not that interesting to the majority of baseball fans. They aren't a playoff team, aren't one of the big TV draws, so they pretty much are left to the local media to try and build speculation around what they will do. I can't think of a team that is more transparent than the Sox either, the reason it seems that they are so tight lipped is because we are all focused on them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 06:24 AM) You look at the package Boston supposedly offered for King Felix. If the Sox got the same players for Sale, they have weakened their team. Yeah, you might not win keepimg Sale, but to think you would win trading him isn't logical. If the goal is to get an immediate boost in your farm system ranking, or you plan to suck for a few years, trade him. If you want to win games, and have the guy who starts game 1 of every playoff series on the roster, you keep him. With the contract he has, to pick up his production somewhere else, it would cost a fortune. And then you look at the package that Cleveland got for Bartolo Colon. There are examples of one sided trades in both directions you can cite. You can see what Boston offered, you it wasn't accepted so obviously the Mariners knew it wasn't going to be enough. I have been against trading Sale up to this point, but, I don't see a way that this team improves when so much of their organizational player value is wrapped up in guys that appear in less than 40% of their games. Something needs to change. Ir has been let slip that it will take a small army to acquire Q, it will take a larger army to get Sale. If Dombroski called tomorrow and offered Rodriguez, Swihart, JBJ, Devers and Moncada thats a trade I would have a hard time justifying turning down.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) I think Hahn's first priority is Eaton, Quentin types. Guys who have had an issue or two but are young and could be had at a reasonable cost but have really nice upside. I don't play fantasy baseball anymore so I don't really have a list of names that might work. Lawrie is obviously a more experienced version, but he seems to fit. Catching is probably impossible to do that, hence one year make good contracts with a couple of guys. Lawrie biggest issue is that he is not well liked in the clubhouse, at least that is the reports in the media in Oakland and Toronto, and part of the reason the Brewers were willing to ship him out. Team chemistry is such a fragile and important thing that I don't think Lawrie is worth a gamble.

Robertson is traded to the Astros for Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, and Riley Ferrel Q is traded to the Nats for Trea Turner, Reynaldo Lopez, Pedro Severino, Jefry Rodriguez and Anderson Franco LaRoche and Chris Beck to the Rockies for a low level spect Sox sign Neftali Feliz, Will Middlebrooks, and draft Balbino Fuenmayor in the rule V draft.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 06:16 PM) The problem with that proposal is the Rockies GM needs to be drunk and on PCP to,say yes. No, it will just require the Sox to take an even worse contract in return. The idea of shedding the massive amount of money owed to either CarGo or Reyes would be attractive to the Rockies and they fill an empty 1B spot for a year. It would make sense for the Rockies, but for the Sox you are handcuffing your payroll in the future. If the Sox would eat half of LaRoches salary, they could possibly get a lottery ticket A ball prospect out of the deal as Colorado is going to have to pay someone to fill the position eventually anyway.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:42 AM) Sign C Alex Avila 1 year/2.25 million Sign C Dioner Navarro 1 year/TBA (3-4 million?) Sign SP Kenta Maeda 5 years/80 million (includes 20 million posting fee) Resign SP Jacob Turner to a minor league deal Trade 1B Adam LaRoche, SP Frankie Montas, SP Myles Jaye and RF Avisail Garcia to the Rockies for LF Carlos Gonzalez Trade SP Tyler Danish, SP Erik Johnson, and 3B Trey Michalczewski to the Reds for 3B Todd Frazier Lineup: CF Adam Eaton (L) 3B Todd Frazier 1B Jose Abreu LF Carlos Gonzalez (L) DH Melky Cabrera (S) RF Trayce Thompson C Dioner Navarro (S) SS Tyler Saladino 2B Micah Johnson (L) C Alex Avila (L), 1B/3B Mike Olt, OF J.B Shuck (L), 2B/SS Carlos Sanchez (S) Rotation: SP Chris Sale (L) SP Jose Quintana (L) SP Carlos Rodon (L) SP Kenta Maeda SP John Danks (L) RP Jacob Turner (long man) RP Zach Putnam RP Jake Petricka RP Dan Jennings (L) RP Zach Duke (L) RP Nate Jones CP David Robertson Thoughts? That would be terrible. Give up too many future pieces to put together a team that will finish at best third in the division and take on way too much salary to be able to spend money to improve the roster or the farm. If you are planning on rolling with a platoon of Avila and Navarro next season you are not planning on building a contender.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 02:27 PM) I'll stop, lest I become a pest in this thread. Just remember, Greg was against the move. File it under "he didn't like it." Thats where I file every move.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) Even if they're out of it they'll need someone to catch the baseball and throw it back to the pitcher. Unless either of those two just goes Buster Posey and their value explodes I can't imagine us dealing them. Even then, we'd just be more inclined to keep them for 2017 Also, let's not act like the White Sox will do us any favors and be out of it come midseason. They wait until August and September to collapse Nah if they get out of the race and either of these guys are worth anything at the trade deadline they have plenty of depth to get them through a half season with Kevan Smith and Rob Brantly. Neither will be good, but good enough to catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) If the consensus is that Carlos Sanchez is the 2B for next season, does Fernandez have the ability to play defensively elsewhere? His scouting report from last year said no, could handle third but not a good enough arm to play there. Not enough range or a good enough arm for the OF. And since he has been out of baseball for a year I imagine he hasn't gotten any better.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:31 AM) I saw some graph on SSS that had Flowers getting 38 pitches outside the zone called strikes. A whole 38 if it's accurate . Woooo damn think how bad the Sox would be if they didn't get those 38 called strikes which by the way could be on the ump or a pitchers rep. Way way way too much discussion about it. Catching a fly ball properly gives you a better chance to throw out runners as do a lot of little things make you a better defender. The fact that it is easily charted is the only reason it's even talked about in this crazy environment of stats. All the other little things other fielders do is less definable. I'm actually surprised we haven't seen stats yet on how accurate infielders throw to first yet. Pitch framing talk is the most ridiculous new stat in the history of baseball. Did they mention how many pitches in the zone that he got called balls? That would be an interesting counter metric.

If we are going into rebuild mode, sign him up and hope he realizes some of the potential that made him a top 10 prospect. If he fails its not a huge risk and if he succeeds you either have a long term piece or a trade chip to help reinforce the farm when Trey is ready. He is at least passable defensively, offensively he is a train wreck, but so were guys like Arrieta, Donaldson, and Grandal at one point as top prospects that flamed out and then a light went on. I wouldn't get in a bidding war for him or anything, but given the state of the team he is worth a flyer.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) Sanchez can be an elite defensive second baseman, but his bat has more potential than people here seem to think. He has shown flashes of being a decent contact hitter. I agree with you. I think he is going to be a really good OBP guy in the future. He is still really young and will be elite defensively at 2B and can be at least league average with the bat. He will never walk or K a ton or put up big power numbers, but he will put the ball in play a lot which is extremely valuable. He is still only 23, lots of upside left to realize. I really wanted Fernandez a year ago when he tried to defect the first time. But given the makeup of the team, I don't think that he is a piece that will turn around the fortunes of this team. He is average defensively, a great contact hitter, but with few other tools. I think by the time he is 27 Sanchez has a chance at being a better player. I would rather invest that money into getting some OF in the system.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 09:51 AM) Why does this keep popping up. I am certain that Robin understands which starting pitchers are right- and left-handed. Any deviation in the platoon would be related to rest/injury. And pitcher preference.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 07:41 AM) I would say this dramatically lowers the chances that the Sox deal Sale, and slightly lowers the the chances that they deal Quintana. You don't sign two veteran catchers with limited upside to one year deals if you are trying to rebuild. Unless they are stopgaps to a catching prospect that you hope to acquire in such a deal. I would say that these moves are not telling at all about what the Sox are planning to do. If anything, it makes me think that they are leaning toward a complete tear down by bringing in two guys on one year deals. A pretty low investment that can be flipped at the trade deadline to stock some more pieces if they have bounce back seasons.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) without sounding snarky, but the gm meeting hasn't even started.... lets wait for 2 weeks or so before spring training. I understand. But if we are looking at this team as constructed I don't think it makes much of a difference in what goes on with LaRoche. If the Sox get active next week, then maybe they can pay someone to take him off their hands if he ends up blocking someone with a better opportunity to produce.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:43 PM) As badly as we need a third baseman I would hate to see a deal of Quinatana for Frasier, even if there were more pieces involved. Agree, I don't care for Frazier much. He had a hot streak, but is sub standard defensively and outside of getting hot, is not much more than an average bat.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:41 PM) I hear you, and I'm not saying I don't want them to. He is just so valuable that I don't see how we could get a return that is worth it. Everyone knows the league is getting younger and younger so teams are more reluctant to give up a lot of their top prospects for proven veterans. I hope I am proven wrong. I hope so too, I see what the Red Sox just gave up for a closer and that makes me feel like the market is in place to capitalize on Q's value.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) To be fair, I don't think the Sox having a winning season with this current roster is that out of the question. We won 76 games in 2015. Replace 6 losses with 6 wins and we would have had a winning season. It's not that far-fetched. We're capable of having one with or without LaRoche on the roster. Maybe, but I see the other teams in the division getting stronger too, with holes at SS and 3B right now, not sure how this team makes much improvement unless you have a ton of faith in Erik Johnson and Alex Avila. If the idea is to move Sanchez to SS and bring Johnson into 2B you are making your pathetic defense even worse and devaluing the strength of this roster. Without some bold moves I think the team will be lucky to make 76 wins next season.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) I get really nervous about trading Q for offense or MLB ready prospects. I love the idea of it, but if it doesn't work out then it is going to set us back for years. Where is it going to set us back to? The problem is that we are already in that spot. Yes it is scary to trade your proven commodities for unknowns which is why you need to get more value in return then you are giving up, but unless this org makes some bold moves the team is going to be stuck in 3-4 place in the division for the rest of the time we have Abreu, Q, and Sale under contract.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 04:53 PM) Why does that seem to be the case with soooo many catchers (wondering if he can stay at catcher)? You hear that all the time. A lot of it has to do with learning to catch in professional baseball weighed against the ability to hit. If a kid has a special bat, he is likely going to get moved to another position so that they can advance him more quickly to the majors. If the kid has an average bat the team will take their time and try and let him develop defensively. Another factor is the size of the player, obviously crouching for 1000 innings a year takes a physical toll on a person and not all kids develop the frame to be able to withstand the strain that it puts on your body. Usually they will either move these kids off right away or give them a chance to develop and then move them off to another position once the injuries start coming into play. Which leaves you with what the majority of minor league catchers are, defensive catchers without a lot of offensive upside. Obviously there are exceptions, but the depth in most minor league systems are guys with defensive skills that teams hope will develop some offense to go along with their defense.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) Even if they have to absorb the total cost of that contract, they have to replace his bat, or they are not going to have a winning season. I sure hope that the front office is not going to make a move contingent upon being able to find a taker for LaRoche. They will likely not have a winning season even with replacing his bat. So no reason to eat money just for the sake of it.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) Ehh...I mean if he's a final piece type of guy after acquiring bigger pieces, sure I'd take him. I'm just really afraid of the FO signing Span and Freese and trying it again with more or less the same roster. To me that's worst case scenario. The defense and hitting on the roster is broken and needs to be fixed. Band aids won't do the trick. I agree with this, if he is not the final piece of the puzzle (which he definitely isn't given where things stand) he may improve us a little bit to the point where we are drafting 12th next year instead of 10. If we are going to be bad, we need to be really bad to get impact talent into the system. If we are going to be good, then go get Longoria and sign a defensive first SS and Span. I don't see all of that happening, so I would be reluctant to take him on given his age.

Pass. Hanley and Panda are just the latest examples of career NL guys coming over to the AL and getting overwhelmed. At their ages the likelihood of a bounce back to their previous career numbers is pretty low. Those prospects and that money can be better allocated. I would much rather take a flyer on the Korean guy and about a third of the cost.

I think LaRoche would be a lot better off back in the NL where he got to play defense everyday. He could fit in Colorado as a guy to hold a spot down in a rebuilding year if the Sox were to take on some money from the Rockies. Pitt may be interested if the Sox eat half the contract, the Brewers may be another option if they unload Lind at the winter meetings for prospects. They could try and turn a half season of LaRoche into more prospects at the deadline. The Giants would be a long shot if they end up moving Belt for pitching and then could platoon LaRoche with Posey. They always seem to squeeze a little extra out of veterans in the Giants org.