harfman77

Can we just close this stupid thread already? This issue has been beaten to death.

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) General opinion on Alexei at soxtalk has not been good at all. Now the board seems to think alexei can attract a top 3 prospect from a team. If that is the case, I'm all for it, but I think if hahn wants to keep his job, he'll need to turn this ship around quickly, and he'll need alexei to do it. Soxtalk is quite schizophrenic on the players on the team. A guy comes up and he is going to be all world, if struggles in his first month he needs to be cut or traded for a bag of balls. Alexei is a valuable player, his power was down last season but he had his best season on the base paths. He is a good player and has pretty good value. As far as top prospects, no, but he could pull two mid level guys or three lottery tickets.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 08:38 AM) The thesis of your entire argument has been to get Dunn out of the way to open up playing time for a non-Dunn player. Now you want to replace him a guy who you just described as a "mirror of Dunn offensively," get no salary relief, AND give up a prospect in the process? You just undermined the objective part of your argument, completely. What you have just proposed does nothing but hurt the team's chances to win now and in the future. This is clearly nothing more than a personal vendetta and there's no reason for anyone to take your argument seriously. Amen.

Danish and Hawkins will still be a ways away to start 2016.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) The White Sox have a ton of faith in their pitching production through the minor leagues. Don't discount the chance that even if a guy like Hoffman is sliding, that the organization sees a mechanical reason for that to be happening, with the full knowledge that a tweak puts him back on track. That is why they drafted Chris Beck where they did, and the guy is flying through the organization. I agree, the Sox are going to make the decision based on which player they feel is going to be able to most help the major league club for a long time. If they love Hoffman as much has been speculated, this season is going perfectly for them, otherwise he will not be around when they pick.

Least surprising reveal. Ever. Makes perfect sense as he is the guy that the pitchers feel most comfortable with and the strength of this team should be its pitching. No reason not to roll the dice on him and see if he can finally put it together, it give Phegley time in AAA to work through things and get ready to step back up, if he does put a good season together you have an answer at C, if not he can be DFA'ed whenever you have a better option available.

Yes. Tyler Collins and Bruce Rondon come back, we throw in Molina to balance out the 40 man rosters.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 07:12 AM) My top three at the moment would have to be: 1. Rondon, 2. Beede and 3. Kolek. You cannot deny that Kolek has elite stuff that is once in a blue moon for a high school pitcher. I really do not care if he takes three years to make the majors, if he is the guy who projects the best for the future of all the guys remaining at the number three spot, I think the sox should pull the trigger even if it is at the expense of someone who could possibly contribute within a year. If I were to project a top 5 today it would be: 1 - Houston - Rodon - Rodon is down a little, but pairing him with Appel will be very appealing 2 - Miami - Kolek - Miami loves HS players with big upside, Kolek is that 3 - Sox - Hoffman - Pedestrian numbers this season, but the stuff is elite and he has the frame to be successful over the long hall. 4 - Cubs - Beede - Beede's arrow is pointed up and the Cubs are starved for pitching. Beede could be the fastest riser as a pro. 5 - Minnesota - Alex Jackson - Twins continue their trend of selecting prep players grabbing the top prep bat in the class.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 03:38 PM) Wouldn't have been as big an issue had they not laughably drafted KW Jr in the 6th. I mean, I get it, everyone does those kinds of drafts - but they do it in the late 30's. Drafting him in the 6th was terrible. True.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) With Corbin out... Danks + Cash + one of our MI prospects (Sanchez or Johnson?) for Chris Owings? Go into the season and try to build Danks value to do this. I mean, Hahn loves trading with Towers, so... Diamondbacks are looking to unload Gregorious and name Owings the starter. Not giving up Danks and a spect for any of the Dbacks shortstops anyway.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:34 PM) Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 2m Ozney Guillen, son of Ozzie Guillen, signed his 1st pro contract today with the Normal CornBelters. He was drafted in 2012 by the #WhiteSox. Oh the controversy there. His family thought he was a top ten pick and he ended up going in the mid-20's, now is playing independent league cause nobody else thinks he is good enough/worth the headache.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) I think everyone knows one of them (Viciedo, De Aza) is likely to be traded, if not before Opening Day then during the season. They want Danks to be as ready as possible to be the 4th OF at some point this year. Also likely showcasing Viciedo and De Aza against opposite handed pitchers to to and boost their values.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) I like that bat. We've had a bad defender behind the plate for years, why not try him? Do the Red Sox need an OF? NO THEY HAVE GRADY SIZEMORE Bad defender > Ryan Lavernaways defense

ESPN has an insider article on last weekends big matchups. Here are some highlights. On Beede: "The big improvement with Beede is the control, but both his curve and change have been much more consistent pitches as well. His command will never be elite, but if he can get to within the margin of error with his fastball, he's a top-of-the-rotation guy. " On Nola: "his low arm angle has scouts concerned that lefties will eat him up at higher levels -- but you can't deny that his stock is up." Rodon: "He still shows a plus fastball and the occasional plus-plus slider, but neither pitch has been consistent, nor has his command." Weaver: "Weaver on the other hand, has seen his stock shoot up in the early spring. The right-hander's numbers are similar to last year (2.29 ERA, 19 walks 119 strikeouts in 98 2/3 innings last year, 2.25 ERA, 6 walks 24 strikeouts in 24 innings this year), but he's looked much better doing it with a better breaking ball and touching 97 mph on the radar gun." "Rodon still looks like a top five lock, with Weaver being a mid-first round target for teams like the Cleveland Indians and Kansas City Royals. "

Through this weekend Rodon - 6.2 IP 5H 2R 2ER 4BB 12K 1HBP Season - 2.45 ERA 36.2 IP 27H 15R 10ER 11BB 42K Beede - 7.1 IP 3H 2R 0ER 1BB 7K Season 0.84 ERA 32.1 IP 14H 6R 3ER 6BB 40K Hoffman - 6.1 IP 7H 6R 5ER 2BB 5K Season - 4.06 ERA 31 IP 23H 17R 14ER 15BB 37K Newcomb - 7 IP 2H 0R 0ER 3BB 8K Season - 0.00 ERA 24.2 IP 10H 1R 0ER 12BB 31K (four starts) Beede looks like he has found an answer for the questions around his control. Watched Rodon Friday night and wasn't all that impressed though maybe it was an off night, through too many pitches out of the zone and that will not work in pro ball. Throws too many pitches as it is.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 14, 2014 -> 07:13 PM) Jeff Lockridge ‏@jefflockridge 33m #Vandy's Tyler Beede hitting 95 and 96 on the radar gun vs #LSU leadoff man Andrew Stevenson The way things are going, Beede very well could be #1 overall.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Mar 13, 2014 -> 09:49 PM) I'd still be enormously shocked if Rodon didn't go 1-1. Its a long ways to go to draft day. Rodon has come back to the pack, he still has a chance but has not been in a class by himself this year.

Big day for Rodon and Beede as they will face their strongest competition thus far. Rodon v. #2 FSU (Luke Weaver) 5PM ESPN3 Beede v. #8 LSU (Aaron Nola) 5:30 PM (SEC Network) Hoffman v. Tulane - 5PM Newcomb v. Sacred Heart - 2 PM

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 12, 2014 -> 09:16 AM) Oh. Well for your sake I hope Jordan Danks never makes it because if we check this thread 5 years from now & Jordan is coming off his first All-Star appearance then you sir are going to feel like a genuine butt hole. I'll be OK if he does, but 5 years from now he will be 32 and headed into decline. To me he is the quintessential fourth OF, LH bat, solid defense, but not really the skillset to be an everyday guy. He has value to a team in a role, but if he is a starter something went terribly wrong.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 12, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) I like the really high opinion of Jordan Danks. One of these guys is going to pull a Quintana and rise well above expectations, and JorDanks might be the one with the work ethic to do it. He still K's a ton but if he can bring those walks and HRs up a little bit more and make a little more contact, his D will keep him a starting player, and then he'll have a shot. No, that was an accident, I thought it was John, didn't expect Jordan to be someone we would be talking about 5 years from now. Jordan is more in the 3-4 range, he has value in spots but is not going to be an everyday guy.

Here's a scale to use: 0 = never plays in the Bigs 1 = cup of coffee/outright bust 2 = useful role player or specialist for a couple years 3 = very useful bench/backup/utility/MR option 4 = borderline starting position player OR high quality setup man OR 5th starter, several seasons in the bigs 5 = average starting position player all around OR quality closer OR #4 type of starter, several seasons in the bigs 6 = above average starting position player all around OR dynamite closer OR #3 starter 7 = generally an All-Star level position player OR #2 type of starter 8 = perennial All-Star position player OR true ace SP 9 = HOF candidate Here are the names, no particular order: Jose Abreu - 7 Keon Barnum - 1 Rangel Ravelo - 3 Marcus Semien - 5 Micah Johnson - 4 Carlos Sanchez - 6 Leury Garcia - 3 Clelius Rondon - 1 Connor Gillaspie - 4 Matt Davidson - 5 Trey Michalscaweersdfski - 1 Avisail Garcia - 5 Dayan Viciedo - 5 Adam Eaton - 6 Jordan Danks - 7 Jared Mitchell - 1 Trayce Thompson - 1 Keenyn Walker - 1 Adam Engel - 2 Jacob May - 6 Micker Adolfo - 4 --- Chris Sale - 9 Jose Quintana - 8 Erik Johnson - 7 Chris Beck - 7 Scott Snodgress - 4 Daniel Webb - 4 Nate Jones - 4 Feel free to add more names to this as I don't want to type anymore.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 11, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) The research that has been done on this that debunks it has been centered on observing Pitch F/X data for players who have had large discrepancies in their "lineup protection" over short periods of time, typically in situations where a player is traded or lost to free agency. No one has been able to find any difference in the types of pitches that these players see. Here's a Dave Cameron article examining pitch types to McCutchen over four years: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/...lb/refresh/true The general conclusion is that scary hitters are scary regardless -- that even with a good hitter behind him, you don't want to serve it up to a guy that can hurt you. Guys like Abreu don't see intentional gopher balls no matter who is behind them, because one swing can affect the scoreboard in every situation. HR hitters don't get fewer strikes with no protection because they are already getting the fewest strikes possible. Lineup protection is just another one of those things that makes sense intuitively, but for which no actual evidence exists. If you can show an effect for it, you'd be discovering something new. But for now, there's no evidence of anyone actually being pitched to differently based on who hits behind him (pitchers excluded). Seems like it should be there, but it just isn't. Sure, I agree with the scary hitter thing, but I think the effects go to the non-scary hitters. I am going to go out and get Donovan Solano cause I want there to be as little damage as possible done when Stanton comes to the dish. If Solano puts it in play, I have a pretty good shot at getting him out, if he doubles, I get to pitch around Stanton.

The White Sox organizational hitting motto has to be "If you ain't swingin', you ain't trying."

So...lineup protection...some stat heads say that is a myth, but how can you know that? You can not correlate two unrelated situations as evidence, and since baseball is so situational, there are very few situations that are replicated for various players. I would agree that is has very little effect for elite players, but for marginal players I feel it is a very real thing. As a pitcher, there are certain players you want to beat you by putting the ball in play and others that you want to pitch around. If you have Beckham and Abreu coming up back to back, you are going to be more aggressive with Beckham as the result of contact is not as dangerous as if Abreu (theoretically) were to make contact.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 11, 2014 -> 08:21 AM) Tony Pena, Jr. This is the catcher Tony Pena's son. The same one from 08/09 that was the Royals SS. He pitched one inning for KC six years ago since then has been bouncing around the minors trying to pitch.