JUSTgottaBELIEVE

All of which occurred before Hahn took over as GM. Where has payroll ranked the last 6 seasons? The rebuild won’t work without at least a league average payroll (~$125M).

Imagine what this team could add this winter with a $160M payroll next season. Cole, Strasburg, Chapman, Puig. Combine that with the minor league reinforcements coming up and that’s a vastly different looking team. I mean imagine a rotation of Cole, Strasburg, Giolito (as the #3!), Cease, Kopech/Lopez/Rodon and a bullpen with Colome/Bummer/Chapman at the back end. Pitching just went from a weakness to a strength. I realize they won’t do this but just pointing out how much of a difference an extra $70Mb in payroll makes...

They were not consistently in the top 10 from 2006 thru 2013. Two seasons they fell out of it. And the high payroll from 2006 thru 2008 was a byproduct of the 2005 World Series team. They actually had what many would consider sustained success (by ALC standards) from 2005 thru 2008. World Series title, two playoff teams (three under the current format), perennial contender. Now back to my original point, you can’t pin all of this on Hahn and the front office when he’s worked with minuscule payrolls every year since taking the reign in 2013. If Jerry allows for a $160M+ payroll next year and beyond and they still can’t crack 3rd place in the division, then yes heads should roll. It’s extremely difficult to win a World Series with a bottom 10 payroll though. Has it been done since the 2003 Marlins?

Jerry hasn’t shown a willingness to maintain an above average payroll for an extended period (ever) so unless that changes it’s kind of hard to put it all on the front office that they haven’t been able to achieve sustained success. And yes, I know the Indians have dominated the division for years with a relatively low payroll but they also haven’t won a title since 1948 and will be unable to sustain success if they let their payroll slip to bottom 5 again. It’s no coincidence that 6 of the current playoff teams are also top 8 in payroll. This is typical. Usually, 6-8 playoff teams are top 10 in payroll. It’s not rocket science that a larger payroll allows a front office to hide more of their mistakes and add higher paid players to plug roster holes.

Sure, as long as Jerry is willing to spend above league average in payroll. You know like every other franchise that has sustained success and won titles in recent years - Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Giants, Cardinals.

I define sustained success as making the playoffs every year, regardless of how you get there. Does anyone care that the 2014 Giants were a wild card entry?

How so? The goal is to win the World Series. A team can do that as either a wild card or division winner. Of course, it’s an easier path as a division winner but it can be done as a wild card as well.

This whole rebuild was to win the World Series, which they can do as a wild card team ?

Sox don’t need to win the division to win the World Series.

As a 22 year old in his first full professional season. Near 800 OPS for the season.

That Charlotte lineup right now is an opposing AAA pitcher’s worst nightmare.

A certain slow footed, poorly rated defensive 1b that Jose replaced was also written off at the age of 32 after two subpar seasons. Just sayin’

Most Sox fans thought Paul Konerko was done in 2008 at the same age as Jose.

Amen

So Nova is worth $15-20M next year (and this year)? Assuming 1.5-2.0 WAR again next year. Yikes...

Bumgarner would be a great fit and pickup for the Sox.

Because he was only 26 years old and entering the prime of his career! Yet, he’s having one of the worst seasons of his career so maybe we’ve already witnessed the best version of Manny Machado (e.g., year before FA 2018 season). Generally, I’m not a fan of giving hundreds of millions to a player with questionable character. And no, I’m not just talking about the bullshit stuff like laying a bat by a catcher’s feet on a pop up or attempting to throw a bat at a pitcher but not hustling in the freakin playoffs and then showing zero remorse afterwords is a huge red flag regarding an individual’s character.

Agree 100%. It seems many here fall in love the big name guys that are now a shell of their former selves. 2019 Michael Wacha is not the same as 2017 Michael Wacha, not even close. Meanwhile, Nova’s fWAR over the past 4 seasons is pretty damn consistent: 2.3, 2.1, 1.2, 1.6 (so far). That consistency is worth something even if the upside is limited.

Has Hahn ever had success with starting pitchers signed to pillow contracts? The 4 guys you mention in the second grouping have been horrible/injured this year. You say smoke and mirrors with Nova because he has a low strikeout rate but it doesn’t matter that the other 4 have a higher strikeout rate when their walk rate is double. I really have no interest in seeing older versions of Covey and Banuelos next year.

Now at 1.6 fWAR for the season. Higher than Arrieta, Samardzija, Leake, Aaron Sanchez, Darvish, Porcello, Davies to name a few. If those guys are getting starts on contending teams, I see no problem with Nova as a #5/#6 next year if the price is right.

Ivan Nova is 6-2 since the start of last month.

Good things happen when you don’t walk guys and throw a lot of ground balls.

You might not want to check Manny’s clutch stats this season. His high leverage splits are worse than Abreu’s ?

Quite frankly, he’s still got some work to do before he hits 3 fWAR for this season. Just wait until his defense starts to erode in a few years.

Because he’s the most overrated player in baseball on this site imo