quickman

Did the sox officially announce this guy yet? If not why not?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 08:55 PM) This is a unique injury for a pitcher. From observation of his pitching and the pitch on which he injured his shoulder, I think it was caused by throwing sidearm on that pitch. He pitches like Contreras where he like to move his arm angle. The Sox told him not to do this early in the season and he wasn't effective. Once he started doing it again he was effective but we started hearing the " his arm is sore" stuff. The problem is with the way he drops down. He doesn't bend to the side to change the angle like most pitchers do, he stands straight up and throws with his arm to the side. This is what he did when the injury occurred. He can prevent the problems by not pitching this way but I don't know if he can be effective because he obviously wasn't comfortable pitching that way. This may be one problem with the "I'll do whatever I have to to win" attitude he has. The tendon reattachment went well and is a basic procedure, although not for a pitcher. He will need time to rebuild the strength pf the Latissimus Dorsi becuase his been immobilized but there shouldn't be a problem. The key will be is if he can pitch effectively without that angle change or can he and Cooper come up with an angle that still changes the plane of movement but isn't as hard on his shoulder. thanks very much for the insight. I suppose my real question is can we get away with Peavy throwing the old effective way for the next two years without injury. He has two years on his contract and really I don't care what happens after that. Sounds crass but we are paying him 15 million to be an ace.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:05 AM) It takes Freddy too long to get warmed up and going. He does alot more than most at this stage of his career. Plus we know he's "big game Freddy." There is no way he would be effective in a long relief/mop up role. Peavy will be healthy and ready for the early in the season if not the beginning of the season. Whether or not he can be effective again without the altered mechanics is anyone's guess. PTAC, these are very encouraging comments about Jake. That said, you mentioned his mechanics. He will most likely have the same mechanics, can we tie his current injury to those mechanics or was this a freak thing? My second question is he basically had most of last year off because of the injury, if mechanics were not responsible for the lat issue then my hope is the extra rest on his shoulder would be an extra benefit and maybe buy us a couple more years of bad mechanics. Is this voodoo logic on my part?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:56 AM) I was thinking a year at 3 or 4 million, but yeah, same idea. I can't see anyone giving Freddy multiple years, without it being a team option. one year 1.5 million

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:10 PM) Ok, I know nothing about this guy. What is so intriguing about him? I assume we are referring to the guy that had played with the Blue Jays? All I can tell is that even the one year he posted a good ERA he had a horrendous WHIP (>1.5). I assume he has a live, power arm or something? he is cheap closed 30 games for the blue Jays in 2007. became wild had a arm injury in 2009, couldnt crack the club in 2010 played in Vegas most of the year. I am not saying we should get him. I am just letting you know my guy tells me they are looking at him. (Currently throwing in AZ). I have asked for another update today. This info came first thing this morning.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:08 PM) Haha. I would be mad if they traded Viciedo for an old reliever. But if they got a younger player who is cost controlled, I have no problem with it. This team is built to win and while I dont' want to sacrifice the future and trade Dayan for a one year stop-gap, there are a lot of potential options that make sense, especially since as of now he has very few positions he could fit into. Ok we agree. My point all along is they are in the win now mode and they need a 5th starter/ long relief guy until they find out about peavy.( Sort of like a sean Lowe type of guy.This won't happen until closer to spring training when they get a better read on Peavy. They also need one or two other pretty decent relief pitchers. Bullpens make a huge difference in winning. Our best trading chip is viciedo. So unless they want to take on more payroll from a free agent he maybe our best bet. If you can get someone without him great. Next problem is having a starting pitcher in triple A who can come up for a start or two in case of rain outs, Injuries and so on. In the past we had some guys like that, but not seeing it there, for a "all in team". Maybe if people drop some in the spring training we can get a guy, but I think this is a hole as well.

Heard the Sox are still kicking the tires on Accardo. Very typical for the sox, getting a guy off injury and try him on a bounce back year. Fits there MO.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:48 AM) I'm one of Viciedo's biggest fans on this site. I love the raw tools but I also know he has limitations. However, you made a valid point about letting him spend this season in AAA and playing left field on a regular basis. I don't have a problem with that, but I also know we have major league needs and if the right offer is out there I'm okay moving Viciedo. slowly turning into me!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:53 AM) We definitely have a need for pitching. We could use a 5th starter and we can definitely use bullpen help. I've assumed for a while we could contemplate going after a young arm that is cost controlled at some point in time that the organization likes. Viciedo and Flowers are pretty good options as guys to move at this point in time. yep Viciedo especially. He has more upside to bring someone back. We need three relief pitchers and a 5th starter. One of those relief pitchers has to be pretty good.One can be a mop up guy. The other needs to be more long relief if we are moving pena to the back end of the rotation.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:07 PM) I was just teasing quickman. He's notorious for hating every single prospect that's ever lived. This goes back at least 5 years. True! although I liked Beckham and had hopes for Mitchell ( although I don't think that will pan out either) Lance Broadway Kyle Mcculloch Josh Fields Brian "golden rod" Andersen Royce ring Kris Honel Jason Stumm Super Joe Borchard Robert wells Matt ginter These are just number 1's. appreciate the tease, but its not just because I hate prospects, I just think it makes sense to get what you may need.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:32 PM) I'd really prefer not to deal Viciedo unless it's for a proven BP guy. My biggest fear is him turning into a monster one it clicks on for him. We really don't know what we have on our hands right now with him. He's so young...and you really don't see many guys who have the ball jump off his bat quite like him. Joe borchard was young, josh fields was young, brian golden boy Andersen was young. Main point is, where is he going to play, and is he currently needed.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) All prospects suck, right? Pretty much at least ours. My point whether I like prospects or not, is this guy is not needed, and we have needs. Now if he can throw out of the pen or start every fifth day then I would certainly hold onto him at least until he blows out his shoulder or peters out in triple A like most of the sox prospects. This team and KW in particular is not like other teams. They are not built on prospects or from the inside. Maybe thats why they have a lousy minor league system.

If we are "All in" lets look at the holes we have on this team. 5th starter and at least one bullpen arm. Viciedo is not that good. If he can be used to get either of these for our "all in" 2011. Trade him now.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 03:31 PM) I agree there's plenty of time. However, my concern is that if PK signs there is no money to find a quality bullpen arm and we will do it cheaply and suffer for it. I have been told that relievers are a dime a dozen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:20 AM) jonmorosi Source says #Diamondbacks don't have enough money left to win bidding for Konerko. Barring a late shift, he's going elsewhere. #WhiteSox This is great news.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:19 AM) it's common with a lot of players, every now and then you'll hear the announcers mention that a players family is in town when it's a home game. I am not sure what this has to do with where Konerko lives. Its a strange argument. Konerko has lived in AZ since high school.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:06 AM) Wait, are you telling me that Paul Konerko's family doesn't live in Chicago? (immediate, wife and children) I don't believe that. I am very sorry you don't believe that. They do come in the summer months. They do own a house here for the summer.They live in scottsdale as there primary residence. Your choice on what you believe.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:23 AM) I could see that being the case, but I thought the DBacks were a long shot and the Rangers were actually the other serious contender. My understanding is the Dbacks did make an offer and its for a couple of million less but its for three years. The Rangers have been involved and are in the ball park but its not been a priority and they have not added a third year. Just what I understand. My take is a deal will be done today eitherway.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 07:14 AM) Paul Konerko owes you and me and the White Sox nothing. If he chooses to go elsewhere, that's his decision and he's earned it. I hope he comes back. If the Sox can't wait around for him to make his decision fine, but don't blame him for taking his time. There's a lot of unsigned players out there. They deferred their money. Its not like they gave it back. They will still get it and chances are they probably don't need it in the next year. Nicely said, What i am hearing is the Dbacks and whitesox are very close on the money side of things. Konerko is truly thinking about this because He can spend three years at home with his wife and kids as they are in the growing age stage. Three years at home with your family around for about the same money (Dbacks offering a touch less) or three years on the road with your only team and a chance to win the division. Thats why this is taking another day.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 07:20 PM) Konerkos money situation is nothing like JJs, and neither is his injury history, nor his age. Konerko doesn't have to follow the money unless it is a huge difference. JJ chose the diamondbacks for two reasons ( as I emailed you before) The first is he lives in AZ which was part of this. The second is He would have signed with the Sox for the exact same amount. The sox offered him 3.2 million. I think he made the right choice both on the money side, getting a second year and on a personal side spending much more time at home.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 03:48 PM) I agree that was horrible. But if our options are Octavio Dotel, I have more confidence in Jenks. Not a knock on Dotel, he's a solid pitcher, but I think Jenks is better. I also fear the notion of a full bullpen by committee because they just don't seem to work (from a historical perspective). I know in theory they make a hell of a lot of sense but it appears that players like knowing what their role is and than adjusting to that role. Well i dont know why they would want Dotel. I don't remember who it was on the board yesterday but they said relievers are a dime a dozen. I know thats not true but I will say I would trade viciedo for a decent one.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 03:40 PM) His linedrive rate didn't see a significant jump between 08 and 09 although there was a 2 year period where his line drive rate was quite low. His K/9 increased this past season and his ground ball rate increased as well. I'm not disagreeing that Jenks threw some meatballs, but I also believe his numbers were inflated because a higher percentage of his mistakes were taken advantage of than is the "norm". I.e., the luck aspect. And I'm not one to throw out these advanced stats too often, but for 2M a year, I think the Sox would be fools not to bring him back. I remmember being up 5-1 against the indians? in the ninth inning only to win 5-4 and leave the bases loaded. I am done with that stuff.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) I just disagree with the notion that Jenks can't pitch. I agree he's been injury riddled and his lack of working out and being in decent shape has impacted him from being the pitcher he was a few years ago. However, last season Bobby was an incredibly unlucky pitcher as evidenced by the high BAPIP (.368). The few seasons prior to that he's still put up well above average ERA+'s (two years ago and elite level ERA+). In fact, 2010 was a season in which he posted one of his lowest FIP and Xfip of 2.59 and 2.62 of his career. Additionally, he's still striking out > a batter per inning. eventually his weight and conditioning will catch up to him. I think we are seeing that. I would rather have putz for 4.5 million than Jenks. for the same price. I have not been able to get updated info on Konerko. Looks like people are keeping quite for now.

I would argue that Putz is better than jenks and deserves the raise he seeks. JJ is looking for 4.5-5 million or a team willing to go muliple years. Jenks days are over and not for a championship caliper team. Sox only offered Putz 3.2 million for this year. Not enough.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 5, 2010 -> 05:18 PM) Am I the only one who thinks Werth is grossly overrated? He's a good player, but $18M/year for 7 years in his 30s? No way. This contract could end up worse than Soriano's. Like others have said this is truly nutty money. He is truly not worth this type of money.