quickman

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) Once again, KW mentions we're at our payroll limit. Let's hope he's bluffing, or else something strange happened to JR's finances. fathom seriously, this whole climate of economics is changing by the day. Another 50k jobs just got whacked today. Everyday there will be more. This is the time to go young. believe me I hate all this young crap, but it makes excellent business sense. JR is smart. By the way didn't he make his money in realestate, banking? Both of those suck. Just saying.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 07:21 PM) or maybe KW is serious about going with the young guys at 2nd and Alexei at SS. ding ding, and plan for 2010. I will go with that one, and if thats the case then Dye will be moved either now or during the year. Its not that bad of a strategy. Most people around here love to see the kids play. Now everyone has there chance.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 12:28 PM) this apparently was just now: http://www.metsblog.com/2008/12/09/outfiel...th-sox-for-dye/ If this were the case why wouldn't that have been a packaged deal in the last trade?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 11:34 AM) Me too, and it would be a huge PR hit for the organization. As they were saying on the radio today, the average fan understands giving up Swisher and Vazquez, but if they give up Dye for another prospect, then you'll start to hear more outrage. Its not like we are winning anything next year. keeping dye for another year doesn't make much sense. As I have stated in other threads they are cutting payroll, and they will not make up alot of what they cut. They are planning for a down year in baseball and the economy. Its just my take, but I think Dye goes, for younger players or prospects. they will nto back fill him with any big name free agent. They are doing what every other company in the US is doing. They are planning ahead for an off year. There job is to make money.

I think there might be more to it. Just a hunch. Maybe KW is letting DYE think about it. He has a deal in place, but because DYE means so much to him personally he is giving him some time. You never know, KW maybe trying to be nice to JD. If it does go through, I really hope we get another prospect as well. Just seems like we are selling a good asset short. Could we get more for Dye if we waited until the deadline? Not sure.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) From MLB.com's Hot Stove Blog. sounds like they want the sox to kick in money.

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:32 PM) http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/conte..._about_dye.html It almost sounds like this reporter got caught and now he is leaking his source to the Whitesox. Also he is hedging saying KW can change his mind on a wim. Too me this looks suspicious.

why do players live there? Blanco's brother now this. I am afraid Ozzie will be targeted next. People in that country do this type of thign for a living. This is just sick stuff.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:32 PM) Kurk was just on ESPN, and said he expects things to move a lot slower than they have in years past due to the economic climate with baseball. Don't expect a lot of the big FA's to leave the winter meetings with deals. right... the Economy will play a huge part in this whole thing. Teams are trying to predict the gate for 4 months from now. It maybe easy for the Cubs, mets Yanks, and Angels but practically everyone else will be very hard pressed. When you turn on the TV and see everything Happening, paying millions for baseball players really is last on the list. If the economics will be cut this year, teams just cannot predict the gate. By the way I am sure everyone knows that the tribune just filed bankruptcy. They will restructure soon. Its just starting, there will be more everyday.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) Philadelphia would be my guess Adam everett type contract with incentives? I think Boras miscalculated a couple of years ago. We wanted to extend Crede and Boras wanted him to be the 60 million dollar man.

for conversation sake any hints on where crede ends up? San fran maybe? Just seems like the market will dwindle on him rapidly. having Boras makes things worse.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:42 PM) Supposedly, he really, really wants to play for them. I have no idea why, as the cold weather will be hell on his fragile elbow. the cubs have turned into the redwings of baseball. people want to play for them and may even take less. They all want to be part of history. I literally hate the Cubs. There fans, team, ballpark and players sicken me. If Peavy ends up there for little in return, I wish him a dead arm.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) T minus how many hours before Broadway is traded for WT personally I think that would be great, if freel is not in this deal. Broadway is terrible. Isn't taveras represented by boras? if so it will be a short stay here.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:38 PM) I think that it's a tough sell for the fans if you cut payroll by about 30 mil AND increase season ticket prices 11% while hurting your team's chances of competing in 2009. I think that they'd have to at least spend some of the savings just as a show of good faith to the fans. leaving ticket prices the same doesn't mean more fans will come. I would argue that those fringe fans (moneywise) would not be renewing anyway this year with the economy the way it is. I also think that casual baseball fans will not be showing up as walk ups like usual.I think the sox know this already. In addition they are old and slow. Its the perfect time to dump high priced players for some young talent and again plan for an infused team after the economic crisis eases (2010) Personally the only thing I don't like about this trade is the return. I don't think its enough. If Freel was involved at least you have a leadoff hitter. Freel and Bailey would be my choice. By the way - Tampa's payroll - Low - they were right there, Twins payroll much lower than ours- They were just as good as us. Marlins always have a low payroll - they are always competitive. In these times build a new nucleus of players. I know many here are young, I saw my parents struggle in Viet Nam times, I saw 16 percent inflation in the late seventies, and cars lined up for gas at pumps that didn't have gas, but let me say what is happening now (just starting) will far outweigh anything anyone on this board will see for along time. I think the sox know this, and they know the tendency of there fan base.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 07:49 PM) Just a terrible, gross trade. The rumors about the Sox having huge financial issues are becoming more accurate by the day. fathom we will not be back filling payroll, we are totally rebuilding, cutting payroll. The Sox are a blue collar team, and the economy right now is not great for a blue collar crowd. Look for 2010. In the meantime we are trying to pick up some higher end players that are suppose to be ready. This trade though needs more from cinci even though Homer Bailey was arguably one of the best pitching Prospects in 2005 and 2006.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) I wonder if we will be hearing about a signing of Abreu or someone like that now that Dye is traded?? Why do people think we will backfill payroll. Thats not what is happening here. We are getting much younger and cheaper and plan to have a good team in 2010.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) If true, OC has to decline arbitration. If we're not trading for Roberts, then Furcal is the best fit for this team. why would we go after another shortstop? In addition we are suppose to get younger and trim payroll. We will not be signing furcal. For whatever reason people think we are actually trying to load up to win it all this year. We are not, call it what you want but this is the start of rebuilding.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 01:59 PM) Here's the home 1968 jersey Mitchel and Ness is selling from their site (and a few other sites:) Here's one that mlb.com and a couple more sites are selling: Now which is correct? Veeck started putting names on jerseys in 1960, but was it just for the road jerseys? I can't find any pictures and this is all I got from a uniform guide. The 68 authentic Home jersey that I have does not have the name on it. The road jerseys did. Now I am 47, I was a kid in 68 and I do not remember the sox having names on there home jerseys, just like the cubs back then.

I think its interesting that he wanted Lillibridge for three years. I hope not, The guy may not even start, why focus on him that much. Also this tells me that we will not be adding much payroll this year,meaning saving money. Next year thome is off the books and the year after that Konerko I believe comes off the books. I believe next year and the year after we add payroll.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) In all, I'm surprised that the Braves were willing to give up Flowers for anyone not named Peavy. On the other hand, I'm disappointed that KW views Lillibridge so highly, especially after acquiring Betemit last month. KW really has his work cut out for him, as this team might need a new 2b, 3b, CF, and SP. actually this team stil needs everything it needed before both trades. The Lillibridge shortstop thing still confuses me.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 05:57 PM) The money saved will though. Rock a couple of things, First I think they are just saving money, not necessarily going to use it. We will see. Second, why another shortstop? We are moving rameriz over and we have beckham in a couple of years. Seems crazy to think Lillibridge is the center of this. Just seems a bit off. I am certianly not against this trade, just don't understand the package in return.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 07:39 PM) If there's one thing I've learned in the past 10 years, it's that White Sox prospects are terrible. None of them amount to anything, and yet we get angry when we lose a "highly-touted" one. Right they all suck. This board falls in love with these guys. Hopefully Buddy Bell's group will help change things around otherwise we cannot draft.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 26, 2008 -> 09:39 AM) I don't know...look at it from the White Sox standpoint. They could easily offer him arbitration, then automatically try to cut him down to $8-9 million. Let's say they surprised the world and offered $10 million or higher...it's not clear that Cabrera would win his case. I don't know, maybe he'll ask for $11-12.5 million per season, that's fairly realistic I suppose....but, for one, he's going to have to go through a very contentious arbitration proceeding, and all of the truly ugly things from 2008 are going to come out (and many we don't know about that were kept under wraps). Do you think he would want to go through that? MAYBE. Then you figure Furcal, at a similar age and coming off two-injured plagued seasons, is going to get something like 3 years and $39 million or 4 years and $40-45 million...I think at his age, Cabrera realizes it would be more intelligent to get the security of a 2-4 year deal than taking a risk with just a one year contract when he could get injured or any number of things could happen to lower his value going forward. The odds are very much against him significantly raising his value in 2009. You get what you pay for with Cabrera, just like Vazquez, warts and all. I just think a team like the Giants, A's (whoever loses out on Furcal), Dodgers, Twins, Tigers, Cardinals...well, there are quite a few teams out there looking for a SS, and he's the second or third best option. There might even be some teams that prefer the certainty of Cabrera at $10 million for 2-3 seasons over the larger risk, larger possible return of a Rafael Furcal signing. At least you mitigate your downside, arguably, by signing O-Cab. For these reasons, I think KW calls the bluff and goes for the arbitration offer, feeling pretty darned certain (95% chance) that Cabrera and his agent won't accept it. I completely agree on cabrera , no way he wants to stay with the sox. Offer it up, he will not take it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 25, 2008 -> 11:24 PM) Have you heard anything specifically about White Sox season ticket renewals and cutting payroll...or just the generic comments about the economy from KW, moving towards a younger and more athletic roster...I think it was the Barry Rozner article about having 75 cents to spend out of a dollar instead of 50 like it used to be. Correct that is what I saw, but you would think this was going to happen. Most companies are cutting back wether its people or expenses. It does surprise me that the Sox took this time to raise prices. Quite frankly, they should have held the line particularly this year. If you connect the dots it makes sense. This economy will eventually hit everyone.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 25, 2008 -> 01:40 PM) One thing to note...if the Sox do trade Dye, I'm going to be pissed that we traded Swisher. He could have taken over in LF, with Quentin moving to RF. Fathom, Payroll will be down this year, see Economic downturn, Cut back in season ticket renewels, Team being re-tooled to go younger and faster. bailey is a good talent that has not produced, right up KW 's alley. He thinks he can catch lightening in a bottle every year. In addition I love freel for a leadoff hitter. That said and we unload Dye and 12 million, is great. next year Thome leaves, the year after that Konerko leaves, and Buehrle might be in there within the next two years. makes perfect sense to me.