quickman

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 10:36 AM) There was a comment early on how a radio station went after him and he wont go on that one. I wonder if that is the flagship. How much the sox must regret going on a station that has Mike North on it. That asshat stirs up crap like Kotex boy. I realize the radio staion is not the topic of this conversation but since you brought it up I will tend to disagree. First of all, the score has more power and reach to more people than ESPN1000 could ever dream having. That in itself helps more people listen to games. As far as the personalities, I am not a huge fan of all them but please tell me how Mike North does anything different with his comments than what is on this board. KW sucked this year, HE failed miserably, and that is what Mike North says. You can disagree, and think KW did well, but for the most part, he got schooled. This puts pressure on the whitesox and KW. Quite frankly KW 's game is losing its luster and at least there are a few people who are stating that fact. Sometimes I think whitesox fans don't live in reality. We b**** and moan to each other and on this board, but if someone else says anything bad, we get upset. Its lame.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) Thought it was interesting, though not shocking, the Brewers DFA'd OF Kevin Mench today. Brew Crew would've been on the hook for a few mill had they elected to keep him. He never did quite fit in up there. Mench is one year away from free agency and is probably looking for a one year deal. While it does not appear there's a fit with the White Sox, don't be surprised if you hear rumblings. They've liked this guy in the past. Although they like Carlos Quentin a lot, his 100% readiness for April is not assured, plus there are the nagging health issues of Dye and Thome. Not meant to turn this into the typical "he sucks" "no he doesn't" debate, just noting he was DFA'd and he might be someone the Sox will take a flier on. I will take him. He is better than anythign we currently have and the ballpark plays to his hitting. Bring him in.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) Oh KW, you never let me down. Blaming the "loose lips" of other people is just freaking pathetic. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Its because he misread the marketplace and what he could achieve. This is nothing new for the sox.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:34 PM) And if Hunter after 2 years of his deal, becomes a .240 hitter with only 15-20 HR's a season, and an OBP around the .300 mark, would you still be very happy that we are paying him $18M a season? Because I think something similar to that could become a very real possibility. He's not a middle of the order hitter, he's in his 30's, and he's obviously got a lot of wear and tear on his body after playing on astroturf for so long. Do we want to become like the Yankees where they are paying the likes of Pavano and Damon over $10M a season and they're not producing much at all? We HAVE to develop our young players. They offer payroll flexibility, and look at the Red Sox. Ellsbury, Buckholz, Pedroia etc. all young players contributing. I do not disagree with devloping our own players but I do disagree with the people doing the picking and developing. We really are not the best talent evaluators. So if we do end up going that route, I think we need to re-define our people. Businesses do it all the time, move people out and or around to re-invent or deliver better results.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:02 PM) It's also all about having $200 million to spend. but they are not cheap, just payroll limited, because we only drew 2 million fans last year. and because of the great TV and XM contracts recently infused in the teams.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:31 PM) The Sox won't spend the money? What? Even counting what we got back for Thome and Vazquez, the Sox have still outspent the Tigers each of the last few years. not anymore, the tigers payroll has been a bit lower because they had some young pitching there payroll was about even with the sox last year if you figure in the money the sox got back, that said, feel free to say what you want. Sox got schooled and outbided the last three weeks, and they have a history of not spending alot of money. that pretty much somes up my side of it.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) Meanwhile Yahoo Sports reports Milwaukee is close to landing Crede. The possible return is not mentioned. I will hunt up the link. we could use some bullpen help. come on bullpen! or a single A player to replace the great prospect we lost to our new everyday leftfielder.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:28 PM) And Quentin does what? Sit down at AAA? actually quentin is a nice 4th outfielder. In reality please tell me what quentin has proven to be a mjor league everyday outfielder on a team that is "going for it"

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) There's no way we're spending that kind of money. Not happening. I know that, but he asked and that is my point all together.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:10 PM) Sox apologist? I see, because I'm not a bitter 40 something that makes me a Sox apologist. I just don't see the nice 5 year core in Detroit you see, but maybe we are looking at different rosters. Well Tony whether its 5 or 4 or 3 or 2 years, who cares, they will spend the money and the sox won't. They are better than us, and will remain that way for some time. Furthermore I am not bitter, but being somewhat realistic. People with more years also have more history. They have heard and seen more. Right now, the sox are failing in whatever plan they had. I hope you do well in school one day you too will be an adult and be called bitter.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:52 PM) Loaded for years to come is also a stretch. The Tigers just traded away the entire top end of the farm system, and have an old core. They are in a fantastic position for the next two yeas, something I envy, but years to come is a bit of a stretch. Tony I don't want to be contraversal as we were in the other thread. My point in both of these threads is I don't think KW is doing a good job this off season. I think he has been schooled and its his job to be better and make the whitesox better. He went out in the papers and said they are going for it this year, three plans have now fell threw, Renteria, whom he wanted, Hunter, and now cabrera, plus he overpaid for a relief pitcher who may have already peaked, and his minor league system is average at best. ALL on his watch. You can disagree all you want, and you certianly have the right too, but his grade so far this offseason is at best a D in my book and his division will get better not worse.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:56 PM) Is it time for the firesale? A lot of our plans have backfired and now this one costs us a lot. We can play the "you still need to play the games" card but lets get real here. They were a playoff caliber team who added a HOF hitter and a decent pitcher for guys who had minimal contribution last season. That to me is a huuuuuuuge improvement. Cleveland is still loaded and don't think for a second that they won't try and respond to this move. Bay perhaps? Minnesota is dealing guys but I don't think they will fall off as much as expected because they talent they are getting in return is mlb ready and damn good. Royals are coming on fast and I wouldn't be shocked with Gordon and Butler in a full seasons work helping out a lot more. They may be just as good if not better then us. Sox. Old. Prospects contributing are nothing special. Pitching is undecided and OF/lineup still have holes. Pathetic front office...Anything else I am missing? 80 win team on paper max. In our division 70 wins max. actually I am with you, its not working out as planned therefore go to the re-build early. even signing Jones or rowand will not allow us to compete.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:52 PM) Loaded for years to come is also a stretch. The Tigers just traded away the entire top end of the farm system, and have an old core. They are in a fantastic position for the next two yeas, something I envy, but years to come is a bit of a stretch. i think they have young arms and a nice core for 5 years, and oh yeah they have an owner who will spend money and get what he wants. Last time I checked Detriot was smaller than chicago. You can continue to be a sox apologist, but they just got creamed the last three weeks. Now its plan C.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) I did that for a reason. Please, I don't go to my classes during winter meetings.... I am not baiting you however Quick. However, you are fast to call Williams out on bad moves, but what, in your my mind, would be a good move? I am interested... well Tony, now that he lost out on cabrera and Hunter I assume he is on to plan C. That again is an example of misreading things. I think its his job to figure this stuff out, and he is being out smarted by otehr GM's. At this point with what is out there I just don't think we can compete unless we fully open up the bank roll and buy the stuff we need. Even the stuff below will not win over the Tigers but if the sox parted with money instead of playing like we are the royals then here is what I would like to see. Sign andrew Jones - Play him in center Sign fukomdome - Play him in left trade for ryan freel- Play him at second and lead off or he can help play the oufield as a backup. Sign or trade for a veteran number 4 or 5 starter, as a back up to your kid pitchers. Trade Crede and uribe and focus on bullpen arms in return.

Kw gets sideswiped again and this one is a biggie. I wonder if we are now into plan 1C. Seeing Cabrera 19 times a year will kill us, and now the tigers are just loaded for years to come. I really do not see how we can compete with them. Wow, this one hurts more than the hunter thing.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) This logic is making me dizzy. You say "Hunter was the original target, step up or don't target at all" - are you saying he should have paid ANYTHING to get him? And has it occurred to you that Hunter was going to leap at the LAA offer without asking Kenny again, making it impossible to get him even if he wanted to? You have no idea what his backup, therefore he doesn't have one? He's enquired on numerous players - he obviously has backup plans. Why is he "stuck"? do you know about conversations we don't? And what about his actions makes you think he misjudged the worth of Hunter or others "involved"? There were similar offers on the table from Texas and another team, then LAA comes in and blows them all out of the water. Does that make LAA great geniuses, and KW an idiot? I think his entire plan revolved around hunter. Call me the idiot. Now, if you make that person your primary goal in the offseason, you need an idea of what others will pay. I am not saying they should have paid him, which they didn't, I am saying that he needs to understand the worth and teams involved prior to making that your goal. I think he mis calculated. I also think he stepped out and said they are going for it this year. They don't have the guns to do so. He is down ...maybe not out, but certainly wounded from the hunter deal. Now he is scrambling. In addition the Uribe signing was a huge mistake and going for it with danks and floyd really tells me they are not going for anything at all. We know the type of staff it takes to win this thing, next years staff is not the staff. We will just disagree. I don't think up to this point KW is doing a very good job. I will leave it at that.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 03:01 PM) Actually you identify him in one of your other posts "drunk Freel". That is why I mentioned about the 2B situation not being resolved. Who knows on this Chris Burke so called pending acquisition. As said in another thread, it's a Steve Phillips special and he dresses sharp but misses the mark. My solution is Freel but basically it's just someone on a message board proposing a solution. Means nothing. Supposedly he is available if you believe the media. However I see no connect with him to the White Sox. Due to the scarcity of decent leadoff hitters who can actually get on base and do other things for your club, if this is a guy they overpay for well then fine by me. Reds want young arms and we can send them 1-2. That's how you do it if you're going for it. Identify the hole, identify a proven player to fill the hole, and get him. For all this aggresiveness of KW, I would like to see him land a productive leadoff hitter vs. banking on a maybe. Before the yeah buts come out, to me he is the best out there at a position the Sox arguably aren't settled at. Once again just my take on it. i agree I would rather have freel, than owens, or any other potential leadoff hitter that is hitting the rumors. He solves alot of issues, then you can go and get Rowand and have quentin and the other crap minor leaguers revolve around the corner outfield positions.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) So, because the LAA were willing to over pay for Hunter at $18M per for 5 years, Williams mismanaged? Hunter was hte number one target, I have no idea what his back up was but it appeared or at least in the press they indicated they talked to rowand before hunter. therefore he is stuck. So yes in a way, he needed to be better prepared if he lost. H8unter was the orignal target, step up or don't target at all. it appears he mis judged his worth or the players involved. Its his job! not ours.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) He's already improved the team significantly at LF and in the bullpen, let loose a bunch of junk (Erstad, Pods, Myers, Phillips, Cintron) and the winter meetings just started. And he's done all that without spending any of the money that had been set for Hunter, which he can still spend on CF or elsewhere. And you keep at this thing that he has mismanaged the whole situation. So far, as far as I can tell, he's made a number of very good moves, with more to come (we hope). What has he "mismanaged"? Because I don't consider things he hasn't yet finished to be "mismanagement". Just because I disagree with his moves doesn't mean I am right. I think he targeted Hunter, he missed, his fall back options are limited, Hunter of course was the key, he brings star status, good D, and a nice bat, you could then live with owens leading off although I would rather have a drunk freel. He signed Uribe, which he mis calculated, and he over paid for linebrink who I think will get worse not better, but that needs to play out. Quentin is anice pick up but he may not pan out, you don't know, and to have these holes for a team that is old and suppose to go for it, I question the strategy. Now your right he is not done, but I think he will appease fans by getting Rowand which is no big deal quite frankly. I suppose we are hinging this season on Quentin and Floyd. Two big risks as it stands now.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) How should he have managed it, according to Quickman? fish ain't biting moderator boy.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) So, you would rather have this: 1. Owens 2. O'Cab Than this: 1. O'Cab 2. Quentin Seriously? I realize that having some speed at the top is good, but its not the end all of everything. I think that the lineup is far, far better with Quentin in it than Owens, and that is far, far more important than having more speed from your leadoff guy. For a team that is suppose to be going for it, I would rather he get a legit leadoff hitter. thats all, I realize that O cab can ahndle but its not optimal, its better than owens any day but neither are great for that slot. My point is, kw talks a big game but he has alot of holes. Maybe he fixes them. Maybe he doesn't but as it stands right now its not a great leadoff option eitherway.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) O'Cab well if thats the route, then KW missed again. Its like putting Iguchi at leadoff. not the best solution but serviceable. I realize owens blows, but he is on this team above anderson and sweeney because he can hit leadoff and he runs fast. eitherway my point is KW mismanaged the whole thing.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) I understand your viewpoint and it has merit. Things have not gone smoothly the last two years so I get it. On your Owens comment I'm baffled. If they get Rowand I doubt you will see Jerry Owens starting over the potential high impact guy they just traded for. They will let Quentin play, as they should. Maybe if he isn't healthy then Owens plays. I will still hold to my prediction they are aiming higher than Owens. Owens as a 4th Of, maybe. Owens as a starter, I don't believe they will do that. They are not settled at 2B (entirely) so the leadoff hitter situation may get resolved there. Which is why I am of the reserve judgement mode right now. if they get Rowand who is your leadoff guy?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) Because Owens will start over Quentin? Because we do not have a lead off guy, who is your leadoff guy?