quickman

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 07:42 AM) The worst thing is that Jones has another year left on his deal. I have so little faith in KW right now to do the right thing. Jones blows, he should not be a target. THis would make an already bad season worse.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) That's why he would have been the perfect 4th outfielder. Of course, our horrible manager thought it would be a good idea to play him 90 pct of the time. actually if brian anderson was anything of a ballplayer Erstad would have been a fourth outfielder.But anderson sucks so thats why we were stuck with erstad.

hmm, according to this board I thought we had a great farm system. Glad I listened to myself instead of the youth on the board. unfortunately Wilder blows as well.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 04:08 PM) Wasn't comparing them at all, other than their age and what level they were at when they were called up, which I thought was your biggest problem with Egbert (since you've yet to mention a single other thing about him, other than the fact that you don't like him) from reading these posts. I agree 100 percent the guy barely cracks the spring training lineup. He may make it for a cup of coffee when we sink below the royals but forget it. The guys on the board fall in love with these long shots all the time.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 07:15 AM) I am reading that the Marlins and Rockies are showing interest in Buehrle as well. With all of these teams showing interest they should be able to get 3 high prospects for him. Now that is a lot. I am torn between trading him for the prospects and re-signing him now. That is a lot in return for one player. Does anyone know what the Marlins or Rockies would have to offer in return for Buehrle? if they can get that many high prospects who will play next year, then trade him now! Don't wait. This season is done, get the best deal and trade him. The season ticket holders need to figure out if we are going to renew next year!

they are both better than what we currently have, because what we currently have actually sucks, so to be better than that i would gladly them.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) So lets hear what you guys would give Mark Buehrle as a final offer if you had the Chicago White Sox checkbook... How many years and how many dollars would you spend? he won't be hear so it doesn't matter. he is gone to me. Time to move on.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 09:40 PM) Betemit has played some short and from what I've read, he can hold his own at the position. At this point Richar just doesn't strike me as a starter caliber player especially for next season, more of an Ozuna type. I love the way your thinking, and I think your dead on. Richar will be taking cintrons place if he can crack the squad next year. Cintron is gone so thye need some ozuna type players. I would love the deal with the dodgers, jsut wish it would happen sooner than later. We need a starting infielder and a bullpen guy. Fits both.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 06:24 PM) How the hell can anyone feel one way or another about this trade? Prospect for prospect. 24-year-old for A-baller. Who cares. Nothing to look twice at. If this means Iguchi is out the door sooner rather than later, maybe this trade develops some sort of significance...if not, I really couldn't care less. completely agree, both of them will never make it big or be starters for any major league team. This has nothing to do with Iguchi but may have soemthing to do with the fact that our minor league infielders blow. this is a guy who if we get injury prone like we have been can come up and play for two weeks and still have potential of getting a base hit which is something our other crappy minor league players cannot do including our top prospects.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:39 AM) I agree, I predict any trade won't occur until after that series. The problem is if the Reds beat the rush and start selling guys off. i too agree

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:41 PM) It's going to get real annoying if we have to listen to excuses for the next 100 games. don't listen and don't watch. its easier than you think.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) I'd do Dye for Billingsley straight up. We could use a righty power arm as a possible starter, or if not, a nasty set-up man. Dye's clearly deteriorating, and there's no way we're going to bring him back. Let's not get picky with these trade ideas....do I have to bring up the ludicrous trade proposals that were brought up on here for Garcia? Don't worry, some people just have insane ideas of what the value is for a player with a few months left on their contract. agreed, then trun around and trade Buerhle. Then have crede take a shot , come back before the deadline and trade him. Then trade Macdougle.

maybe the players were saying goodbye to each other. Its simple this team is done. Shake hands and wait for the trades. Time to declare this debacle over.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) Hey you make some good posts, tend to agree with your thoughts on the prospects although I hold out hope for a couple. Hope and 3 bucks get you a Starbucks though. As for Williams+rebuilding, he will try to do it as he goes, meaning on the fly. Time will tell if thats the right way. Very tough to restock and stay a contender, witness this year. I am not sure he has the patience for a total rebuild nor I do not think this market will have the patience either. I knew somebody who grew up at 29th and popular. Nice guy very smart baseball guy. thinks like you too! QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 12:28 PM) Difference is Jerry Krause only built the first team thanks to having the greatest player of all time arguably on the team. KW built his WS winner with our best hitter being Paul Konerko, our best SP a castoff, and found 2 shutdown closers for that season for nothing. KW actually built a team Krause lucked into the best player of all time and just used it properly. And really, who knows where this team would be if Krause kept the team? Would we still have Artest? Would a team of Curry, Chandler, Artest, Crawford, and a healthy Jay Williams be good? I mean cant really blame Krause for a guy ruining his career on a motorcycle. i know I realize the differences, I am jsut saying that maybe KW might not bethe best person to re-build a team with youth.

maybe he is getting 20 calls a day because he doesn't call people back so the same people keep calling him. Or maybe its nonesense, but over evaluating and over inflating is the whitesox way. if it brings us better players i am for it. I just don't believe what he says.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:33 AM) Well considering how bad Garcia has looked this season at times (especially last night against the Royals), suddenly that trade doesn't look so bad right now does it? And quickman, has your opinion on Gio increased at all based on what he has done this season? I'm expecting a no answer here FWIW. ahh no in fact I don't think he will even make a rotation in the bigs. QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:30 AM) Is he a number 2? If so, and if Floyd is a top prospect, we got a steal. I've been waiting for Floyd to come up - why not? I can see leaving Gio down, but unless Floyd's hurt, why not? As for Floyd, of course Kenny wouldn't make a deal unless he thought it a good deal - and that would mean that he thought highly of Floyd. But Floyd was damaged goods and wouldn't command a top prospect price. Hopefully, he will he become a major league pitcher. So we have Rowand, Garcia and a prospect for Thome and Floyd. Assuming that we just don't re-sign MB and Dye, are we going to get a first round draft choice for each in compensation? I know compensation to some extent depends on whether they are class A FAs (which I assume they are, although some real mediocre ballplayers have been class As) (that's almost the deal, not quite as the years are different, but almost). Looks pretty reasonable, overall. Would look even better if Floyd could pitch major league baseball. Sorry I didn't use green. I suppose I was mocking all those who think GIo is great. That was my point. We got raped in this trade.It doesn't matter what Garcia is doing now. His trade value was higher than getting our own AA prospect back and a washed up crap pitcher at the ripe old age of 25. QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:50 AM) The Gio love is delusional. No one in baseball outside the Sox think he's a future #2. Look at what the Rox got for Jennings and you know Williams made a bad trade for Garcia. No one in baseball but many on this board love him. More delusional people? I think so. Let me thorw this one out there. lets say we go young and I am not against that as long as that is what is portrayed to the fans. Do you trust KW to build a team? Or is KW the next jerry Krause? just throwing it out there. I don't think KW can build a team, he can add to a team, he can get good value free agents, but he may not be able to rebuild a team. Just something to think about.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) Well I'd sort of disagree with that bolded part there. I mean Gio's numbers this season show promise, Fields's numbers from last season and his improved plate discipline this season show promise, Sweeney's OPS has risen over the past few seasons (and he was always a prospect who was going to take time). Anderson and Broadway I will agree with you though, but BA still has the "potential" to post those numbers which maggsmaggs said (although right now it's iffy if he can actually do that in the future with his work ethic), while Broadway will be a bottom of the rotation starter at best. DBAO your comments are well spoken and I agree with you most of the time. My assessment; I actually think Anderson had enough at bats in the majors to determine if he will be any good. Quite frankly I will disagree with the whole Anderson potential. As far as Gio goes, I think its a good start to put up numbers in AA. I agree he has done well. Anderson did well too and so did many others. i know you didn't imply this but others have gone on to say he will be a number 2 starter. i think that is reaching until he proves he can get a batter out in the major leagues. As for Fields, I hope he is good. Right now he has not yet gotten a hit, Before I lose faith in him I think I will give him the same amount of at bats as Anderson. As for sweeney, he has a very long swing. So did Borchard whom everyone had on there list to replace Dye or whoever about three years ago. He played well in the minors too only to show he could not handle mlb pitching. Sweeney clearly was not ready to come up but 6 more months of AAA doesn't mean he will be ready next year either, as so many on this board predicted in the spring. In my old and somewhat pessimistic eyes, I see very little in terms of real good prospects in this system. Its sad because young potential baseball players are truly the excitment of this game. We just don't have any. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 10:46 AM) I like Gio....I just don't see him as a #2 pitcher in the majors as people are pencilling him in for around here. If he ends up being a #4 for the next 5 years, then I have no problem at all with that. And yes, Adam Russell is quite overrated by some also. His best opportunity to help this team is as a power righty set-up man. I do like saying my comments are ignorant though, as everything I said about Gio was relayed to me by about 5 minor league experts. We need to call him up to AAA, as pitching in a hitter's park will give him a better example of what it's like to pitch at the Cell. We need Gio to be our Rich Hill. Predicting whether these guys make is like shooting goldfish in a lake. The guy has not pitched in the majors yet and already he is a number 2. Personally I would trade him again if it means bringing in a young major league talent, like Crawford. QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) Adam Russell is barely a prospect -- over a 4.00 ERA at the Met is not a sign of future success in baseball. As for Gio, I think you are dead right. You can look at BA, Sickels, whomever and he isn't rated above a B prospect. He is not a top-tier pitching prospect. Once again, Sox fans are failing to differentiate between being the Sox best prospect and actually being a good prospect. Odds are Gio never makes it to the bigs because of injury -- he simply doesn't have the frame to sustain the amount of pitches he throws. And if he does make it, the lack of movement on his fastball and his problem with homeruns probably make his ceiling as a #4. The minor league guys you talked to know more about Gio than the people that post here, so I'll go with their impression. amen.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) I really don't think he thought Atkins was a stud. I think he didn't know what he was doing and for some reason was hell-bent on dumping Durham (although as you said, not for salary dumping purposes). He also seemed to have convinced himself that Durham had little market value - Remember him saying to the media all that stuff about how there is no market for dumping players (something about the rules on compensation changing). He trusted Beane during that period, which is never a good idea, so he got snookered, plain and simple. Even look at last winter- did he get maximum return in young talent for Freddie Garcia? I completely agree with you but if GIO is truly a #2 guy like everyone on this board says he is, then didn't he get the max for him? You figure a #2 lefty (which I don't beleive) and a past #1 pick (who I think sucks) was pretty good for a guy who lost velocity and will want a 5 year deal next year. Now you and I most likley agree that what we got in return for freddie actaully sucked but the majority of the kids on this board Love the great GIO.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 09:58 PM) Do you believe all the hype that seems to come with a lot of our prospects ???? I thought it was a simple question. actually I am shocked you believed the hype over the years. of course they are overrated. They are horrible. QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) I think Owens will be an average CF in the big leagues. i think Fields will be more consistent than Crede and will do quite well one day at 3B. it's unfair to them now because they were called up to a group of veterans struggling at the plate. that rubs off, especially on the young guys just called up to the big leagues. Owens won't make it. He will soon be flipping burgers after spending some seasons pinch running for teams or filling there triple A roster. he is quite a horrible hitter and has a terrible arm. QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Gio = #2 starter if he stays healthy Brian = solid CF in the majors (not Sox though,) maybe .275, 20 homers, 15 SBs and great D Ryan = will start to show true self in mid 20's when he physically matures, .300 hitter with 20+ homer potential, solid D and great arm in RF Josh = all-star level third baseman or solid corner outfielder, possibly a .290 hitter with 30 homer power and 15 steals as well. No Gold gloves, but adequate D and will walk and strike out a lot. Broadway = 4-5 starter, capable of 200 innings, double digit wins, but poor WHIP and k's. Granted Brian won't do this with the Sox, Ryan needs two more years of weight training, Fields need some major league time, Gio needs some as well, but these guys are very are very talented, not Broadway though. These are my projections for their 2-4 peak years. I hope all these guys do what you predict, but what have they done to have you draw these conclusions. What have you seen to help you make these decisons? They have proven nothing and if anything some have shown very little promise. I am not saying i don't hope for them and I have no personal feeling one way or another but just because the whitesox say nice things about them doesn't mean it transitions. I am not picking on you nor picking a fight I am just trying to udnerstand how you come to these conclusions.

Actually, I think the majority of these guys picked will never make it. Now, my issue is two fold, the first is the Whitesox continue to seel the world on how great these guys are. I realize some of this is postering, and thats fine, but as the story goes the more times you call wolf eventually nobody believes. Secondly with the track record of not only the sox but the majority of MLB teams I clearly do not undertand the grandstanding of members on this board who either buy into this nonsense that Kenny is selling or fall in love with these two bit players. My assumption and it surely has played out over the last couple of years is they all suck until they prove they are good, and currently not one of these dirt bags has proven they can play in the majors, so don't get all uptight when KW trades there sorry butts to other teams. Josh fields may have the best minor league talent but right now he has no major league talent at all and I realize he needs to play to get that, but lets not annoint him some great status when clearly he cannot play yet. i will take veterans over 20 year olds everyday until a 20 year old stands out.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:35 AM) whoa whoa whoa re-read my post - THE ANALYSTS said he could be as good as anyone in the draft, NOT POREDA himself. jeez already give him a bad rap first - Andy Sisco? We're calling him Andy now? second - The analysts at the draft specifically mentioned poreda saying that he could be as good as any of the pitchers at the top of the draft. Ok can you not see what your post said above. It doesn't say the analysts said it. You posted the analyst said he said it. Can't you see the difference? Just look at the box above above and read it out loud.

We have no one to go to. Not one pitcher in the minors can play in the majors. its a horrible mess.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) I'm not saying any of them will. But there's a difference between having doubts about our farm system and dumping on it at every chance. When the sox draft better and players stick I will get off there backs. Until then I am entitled to my opinion.

MLB players versus minor league players. We now know what the KC fans have been going through.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:36 PM) Well, if you can make assumptions that approximately none of our prospects will pan out, I don't see why I can't make assumptions as well. Well you just let me know which of our prospects are going to "work out" whatever that means. Tell me please, and also tell me when they will "work out". What year. I like my odds better.