quickman

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 08:57 AM) I don't know if I would say we're great at developing 3B. The jury is still out on Fields. Snopek and Norton were disappointments. Ventura was already a polished player coming out of Okla. State. I guess you can give them credit for Carlos Lee, but everyone had a sense he was not a legit corner infielder and that he would need to be moved. Most organizations are "hit" and "miss" on pitching prospects. We still have Josh Fogg, Kip Wells, Majewski, Rauch, Matt Guerrier, Josh Rupe, Frank Francisco (mostly a Red Sox prospect), Grilli (SF prospect, mostly) and a few others who have made contributions at the big league level. Of course, there's McCarthy (looks like he is now in the Texas bullpen in favor of Cameron Loe) as well. Buehrle was a low draft pick we spotted and incubated. Garland was largely a product of our system. Ok, I will rephrase they may do a better job with drafting 3rd baseman, I realize many don't all make it. I would say the following is a decent track record and yes I am including carlos lee, even though he did not make it as a 3rd baseman; Bill melton Robin ventura joe crede carlos lee josh fields- Looks good but who knows Just seems like they do a better job here, could be just perception. No sense really debating, eitherway its a crap shoot and they need to get better at it.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) OH TQ, I miss your POV on here. But please dont bring up Royce Ring comparative to Gio. Royce was a closer at all levels, Gio is a young talented lefty starter, who has been very successful in the ranks. all right , we will just need to re-sync in 3 years if were not dead by then and see if GIO boy makes any impact. By then the sox should look completely different. Please do not misunderstand, I have no problem with young talent, I do have a problem when they suck. Its about performance, all the time, everyday. They get paid lots of money to perform, they need to step it up, and the sox need better scouts.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 10:23 PM) So why would KW even bother drafting him? KW hates players he perceives to be selfish (ie see Frank Thomas and Jon Rauch). Sure he or his scouts met wtih this guy when he was in college. Didn't they research a first round pick before throwing a ton of money at him? Bob Most likely not, and most likely the scouts and player development drafted him, which maybe one of the reasons why KW said there jobs are on the line. KW indeed makes hte slection and is part of the process, but his player development guys do the homework, and quite frankly they were wrong at least up until now. Either that or they thought he was good, just like they think others are good that never make it. Its like shooting fish in a barrel. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Isn't there anything else to talk about? The fact that there have been about 30 threads started on the subject of Erstad/Anderson is actually pretty sad. Anderson just looks terrible and at this point I'm not even sure he's as good a player as Erstad. The whole subject is just tired and played out. The biggest tragedy involving the outfield is that KW refused to upgrade it this offseason instead going with 2 players who are incredibly similar to each other, one being 8 years older and incredibly injury prone, the other has attitude problems and appears to be a terrible offensive player incapable of making any sort of adjustments at the plate. Then you have the below average insanely oft-injured LF/leadoff hitter to finish of a trifecta of crap. I do agree with you, and i think the sox know it as well. They made room on the 40 man, because something is up on the trade front. Don't know when but something is coming,

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) Nothing like running a top prospect out of town after only 400 AB's when his trade value is minimum and you've got no one to fill the gap he'd leave. actually its too bad he was ouR top prospect. But i do think our manager, coaches, even general manager knows what this guy is like just a little more than everyone on this board. the phillies basically gave up on Floyd and now we are stuck with a guy with a lot of talent but needs a psych doctor. Floyd was a bigger talent than Anderson. The fit is not there, and unfortunatly the sox didn't address this issue earlier. Thats there fault, and they are paying for it now. QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) How many times are you going to the same thing? We know you think Anderson is the worst player that's ever lived. We know you think every single minor leaguer sucks. Move on. All you're doing is post-padding. How many times is there an Anderson thread?How many times will people defend him? thats how many times I will say the same thing. Don't read it.

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 09:48 PM) And through his first 400 or so AB in the majors has not been considerably worse than a lot of stars/solid MLB players were in their first 400. It's called maturation and development, something our stupid no good couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag Larussa esque over managing bigot of a leader has no use for. If you think I'm being too hard on Ozzie, read what he had to say about BA last night. How f***ed are we gonna be when we're employing more than one young white guy in new positions over the next few years? I don't like Ozzie anymore than you might like him, but i think anderson is horrible, I also think Ozzie was forced to take him on the team and now he is giving it back to KW and anderson himself. Look, i realize alot of young people like this guy, but he is pompous, irritating, cares about himself, his women, his dope, and his golden locks. He is not fitting on this team, and he will be gone, trouble is nobody wants him, and we have nothing better in our two bit minor league system at this point. The message is very clear, Ozzzie hates the guy, try workign for a boss that hates you. Its no fun and you are pretty much screwed, therefore you start doing things that would piss off your boss more, and care less for your surroundings. Human nature. He is a goner.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) Broadway, McCullough, Phillips, Haeger, Egbert, etc. I think most would agree they would profile as 4 starters at best, 5 most likely and career minor leaguers just as easily. That leaves Floyd, Gio, Danks and Russell to POSSIBLY take Buehrle's or Garland's place. Other than that, we have to trade (since we won't sign a FA pitcher) or convert Thornton, Sisco or Masset to a starter. Agreed to a certain extent. Our future pitchers may not come from our system at all. They could come from free agency or through trades. but I do agree with most of your assessment. they are 4's and 5's, and floyd, right now has not proven anythign except being the next brian Anderson only from a pitching perspective. The bigger question would be if you could get a freel would you give up two of these guys, and that I would. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 11:20 AM) Taking your minor-league negativity with a grain of salt, I disagree on the pitching in our system at this point. Gio has the ability and the stuff to be a top of the line starter to go along with Danks. Russell could be a sleeper, judging on his stuff he could be an adequate bottom of the rotation guy. And Freel could be traded now that they have the wonder kid who can play CF everyday. Gio's stats this season BTW 3-1 1.69 ERA .094 WHIP 21 IP 30k's 8 bb i understand why you say what you say , but really the sox need to do a better job of proving that your right. You like these guys which is fine, but most won't make it. I will gladly trade any of them for a proven player that can help me win now. The sox are great at drafting and developing third baseman to be good players but they are truly hit and miss on pitchers which most organizations are and god forbid they can develop a catcher or middle infielders. Just a note Royce Ring had simular stats and quite frankly he is a fringe guy. I can go on with more and more and so on.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 06:09 PM) Brian Anderson Observation: He's not good at baseball. Who cares about Brian Anderson. He is horrible.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Apr 26, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) If we trade Gio and Russell for Freel, we would have ZERO chance of developing a 1-3 caliber starter in the next 2 years. First nobody cared or even considered Russell until spring training. Jury is still out on him. GIO will be a bullpen guy. But we will see who makes it, most won't but I do agree they will keep GIO. Trouble I see, is most people here believe we have some great talent in the minors, which we really don't, we are a C grade minor league system, so I think we tend to over evaluate our system. Ryan Freel is a good outfielder with speed. Giving up our crappy minor league players won't cut it. need not worry about belaboring the point, they won't trade him anyway.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 25, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) We have some young stuff we might not have room for. I wonder if Heath Phillips might interest them...Heath is in his last year of eligibility, so we're probably going to lose him next year if we don't turn him into something. heath Phillips is a career minor league pitcher who most likely will hang on for a cup of coffee in the pro's, but that is it. Personally I would trade any of our minor league pitchers for Freel. in fact I would trade two of our minor league pitchers for freel, plus I would give them brian anderson to boot. Just saying Phillips sucks.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 25, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) I wonder if the Reds will get rid of Freel. I have been calling for freel fro two years. I love him. We have no pitching to give them.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Apr 25, 2007 -> 11:40 AM) he is not a dead horse until he is gone. But I love the thought of putting him out of his misery. Nice science project though.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 25, 2007 -> 08:45 AM) Brian Anderson's approach at the plate looked pretty good to me last night. I love how major league hitters watch a straight-as-an-arrow fastball strike three go right down Broadway. As Steve Stone has said, someone I trust a whole hell of a lot more than some of the fan-boys here, the problem with Brian Anderson is that, he not only gets beat on breaking pitches (which he could not hit to save his own mother), but, he also gets beat on the fastball--which, as Stone correctly asserted, is inexcusable for a major league ball player. Oh, s***, this is a Darin Erstad thread--disregard this post. Oops. Maybe all he needs is a chance to play... can't wait until anderson and his surf board leaves this town, then i can see some college kids tag line with his stats posted everyday batting 179. Good riddance, unfortunately nobody wants this two bit outfielder. maybe if he stops looking at his hair in the mirror and practices harder he could hit 220.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 12:16 PM) The armchair managing has reached epic proportions the likes of which I have never see before. Anderson was virtually handed a starting outfield position for a defending-champion roster on a golden platter and could not capitalize on it. He was renown for being one of "Kenny's guys." and the two better center field options in the organization were cleared out of the way so that Anderson would essentially be handed the spot. And yet, the organization is out to get Brian Anderson. The way this has been playing out on this board has been cracking me up. It drives you nuts doesn't it?

Who the hell cares about Brian Andersen. He is nothing, he will not get us to the playoffs nor might he be anything other than what he is. I know people like him because he is young, a surfer dude, who acts kool, but the guy is a non entity. Really who cares. Move on he is a fringe player.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Given that we have 2 really big quality guys hitting the FA market at the end of this season, if we're 5+ games out of first at the AS break, a fire sale certainly doesn't seem like a terrible idea if it brings back good people. completely agree, so when KW says they are not rebuilding tkae it with a grain of salt. They do have a plan though.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) For a team that supposedly came into camp "hungry", with Cooper getting pissed and now KW, it seems peculiar. At least none of this counts yet. It appears the poor pitching is starting to grate on the organization though. Hopefully some of KW's acquisitions can help in 2007 or we may see a firesale at the trade deadline. of course we will see a fire sale. he cannot come out and say that because it will anger the season ticket holders, but it will happen unless we are in first place. at all star break. Fortunately for sox fans and management we know what it takes to be a World series contender or playoff team. We knew last year we didn't have it, we will know this year as well.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 08:45 AM) Good for Kenny. I like that he is honest with the kids, he wants them to learn from their mistakes, and he didn't call the kid out to the media. I really, really, really, think this kid needs to be broken down and rebuilt like he would if he were going into the military. He just needs to pitch, and I think working as a starter in Charlotte will do him a world of good as he would have to concentrate on his secondary pitches, location, mechanics etc, where as out of the pen in Chicago, his outings would be so erratic, he wouldn't have a chance to fix his problems in real time. problem the sox have is they cannot bring him in with bases laoded and two outs, because its 50-50 on whether he will throw a strike, but I like him to start an inning where there will be two lefties coming up. Some guys will always be wild, this may be the case with Sisco, but if used in the right situation (non pressure) he can help. used in the wrong situation, well he will be picking up the practice balls in AAA.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 06:02 PM) Oh man not the great [fringe prospect from Minnesota], or our next cather [fringe prospect from Detroit]! Please say it isn't so. [fringe prospect from Cleveland] didn't make it either? [fringe prospect] is taking the Ross Gload path to the majors. Maybe the Royals will take him. None of the guys you mentioned, aside from Phillips, will likely ever touch make the majors. So yeah, those minor leaguers do suck if that's what you're talking about. good for you , you tell me who will make it. Put it in writing and give me the year.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) Trading prospects!? You can't do that. That's blasphemous around these parts. Oh man not the great Wes Whisler, or our next cather Don Lucy! Please say it isn't so. heath Phillips didn't make it either? Heath is taking the Ross Gload path to the majors. Maybe the Royals will take him.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) How do you know that wasn't the best available package? i know you didn't post to me, but if it wasn't the best package, then I would have just stuck with freddie until all star time. could have gotten more, or hell maybe we could have been in first place with him. i realize its hindsight, but the phils would not be giving up on there number one pick if they thought he could play. They needed pitching, and now we need pitching.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) If either Floyd and Danks both aren't ready to start for the MLB club, then KW really messed up by trading McCarthy. I don't care if he likes him or not....at least he's ready to be a 5th starter in the majors. I liked the McCarthy trade, but the timing is terrible with all of our offensive players aging and getting close to leaving via free agency. fathom the sox will give every opportunity for floyd to win this. they will even force it, because they look like crap for getting nothing in return for freddie. In my opinion, Danks will be good but they don't wan to bring him in this year.They really don't have too, he is Buerhles replacement, he might come up when we are in third place at the all star break and we trade Buerhle for more prospects, hopefully somebody has a SS considering we can't draft one.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:57 PM) MLB.com had it listed differently originally, but I'm flatterd, Ace. We should trade for some then. we can't even do that right, see Gavin Floyd. he blows, and will end up as Heath Phillips one day.

hey all you overreactive types, a friend of mine is at the game, he says it's Mack in LF and Erstad in CF, and please all you overreactive types, check the box score, it's been corrected, thank you. Also all our prospects suck

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 08:40 AM) I know many of us have come to like Rob Mackowiak and his style of play. In fact, I was pulling for the Sox to acquire the Oak Lawn native since the 2004 trade deadline. However, I would have to guess Mackowiak would be on the move. Raising the question: if Rowand can be had for some reasonable minor league talent (excluding even Boone Logan if you wish), would you all be fine with essentially swapping Mackowiak's spot on the roster with Aaron Rowand? I ask, because I feel that is the situation we are looking at. And, for the record (something I don't believe I ever posted), a family member of mine who was quite close with Aaron during his time here said Aaron told him that when he was moved, Williams said he was going to make significant attempts to get him back in a White Sox jersey as soon as possible. Now, this could be a bit of the coach/GM-speak; I'm not sure that they don't say this to everyone. But, it is just something else to think about. Where there's smoke, there is usually fire. Hey Ian, as you and I have chatted before, andersen sucks, sweeney sucks, logan sucks broadway throws light. I cannot wait to get Rowand back, even though he is average. he loves the sox and they love him for his dedication, also he will sign here for less. Cards are adding up. All these guys would be fine if the sox dismantle the team and cut payroll to Royals caliber, but thats not what is happening. They will fill certain holes as they lose key guys. two holes next year to be filled will be Fields for Crede and Danks for buehrle. There is pretty much nothing else down there.