BearSox

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2010 -> 01:25 AM) The point is that 95% of the time, people like you, me, Greg...we have NO IDEA whether a guy is capable of turning things around or whether all is lost. All we can do is trust what a guy's body of work says. I agree with this completely. And me not ruling out sending Beckham and Quentin down isn't to give up on them but hopefully spark something, change something, have something positive happen. It really can't be any worse than them get their asses handed to them day after day by MLB pitching (if that continues to happen), can it? I guess the only way it gets worse is if they suck in Charlotte as well, but I don't see that happening.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 31, 2010 -> 01:22 AM) Lillibridge homered again. What has gotten into him? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Stadium (Actually, his overall numbers are much better away than on the road, but he's found his home run stroke at Knights Stadium)

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2010 -> 01:12 AM) Just like we should have drawn the line with Rios, Greg? Rios is a completely different story considering we are stuck with his large contract. When you take on someone like Rios and his contract, you are either sinking or sailing with him. Luckily, we are sailing right now (although I'm not totally oppossed to trading him if we can get an insane package back, mainly because there is always the bust factor with Rios, IMO).

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:57 AM) Several posts today have put a smile on my face. That is one. Keep nonconforming. I wanna hear true opinions and you have good solid ones. Conformity sux. Greg, you are a crazy SOB and some of your posts drive me up the wall, but I love ya. You are a true sox fan at heart, as loyal as they get, and you stick with your gut and heart like no one else I have ever met or talked with.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 01:00 AM) He just turned 21, playing in AAA, and has an OPS just south of 850. I'll take it, in addition he has good K rates and like a lot of Cubans has started slow the past two seasons. He's one of the best prospects we have right now. I actually like Viciedo and hope he succeeds, but it's sad to say that this, Flowers, Danks, Morel and Hudson are all we really got to offer prospect wise, outside from a couple guys in A-Ball who are some-what intriguing, but not anything to write home about yet. Well, I still love Hudson and hopefully he can become the next Mark Buehrle in the organization.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:51 AM) Point was Reds fans we're calling for Stubbs to be sent down just three short weeks ago. They (the Reds) stuck with him and it's paid off. It's not about being a "world-beater." Whatever that is. And it's not about being on Beckham and Quentin's level. I was just throwing out an example of a highly touted prospect that had some initial success, struggled mightily, only to turn it around while remaining with the big league club. That's all. Late April/Early May is a completely different story. How many people were calling the Teixeria signing last April a complete bust? Probably a lot. Hitters struggle in April due to mainly the cold weather, and any knowledge baseball fan should be more than willing to give players with potential more than a month to break out. I was more than fine with letting the players stay with the big league team coming into May. But as I stated earlier, you gotta draw a line at some point, IMO. And 2/3-1/2 a season of potentially being the worst every day player in the major league's is my line.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:41 AM) Robin Ventura is a nice example... 1989: 58 PA, OPS+ 57, SLG .244 1990: 565 PA, OPS+ 83, SLG .318 1991: 705 PA, OPS+ 126, SLG .442 1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle. 1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season 1991 - The Beginning to something great. Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him. The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:22 AM) Honestly man.. it isn't even worth it. I stopped long ago. This means a lot coming from you, the almighty SoxAce. Really, your arrogance makes me sick. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, it usually leads to well rounded debates. But with you, I'm just the crazy old BearSox who doesn't know s***. Why bother with him, he's goofy! Right? I think you were one of the posters who gave me the most s*** about how I told everyone how horrible the Swisher deal was and how Beckham's current approach leads him to be vulnerable to inside fastballs and breaking stuff away. But all that stuff is whacky because it does/didn't conform with the rest of the board. GMAFB. Either contribute something or STFU.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Oh, I didn't know you had to be 2003 Barry Bonds to show considerable improvement as the year has gone on. Stubbs in April: .186/.301/.271 Stubbs in May: .271/.333/.510 Yeah, he's improved... But then again many hitters struggle in April and breakout in May. Beckham (outside of 1 good game here or there) and Quentin (outside of maybe a 1 week stretch earlier this month) haven't shown any significant signs of improvement, and the season is more or less a 1/3 over with. If they don't show any signs of improvement, they don't deserve to play in the bigs. Letting them fight through their struggles at the MLB level has worked so well, right? Why not try a different approach? On a side note, I'm indifferent on Stubbs. He seems like a decent player, but isn't and likely never will be a world beater. And it is like comparing apples and oranges with Stubbs and Beckham/Quentin considering Stubbs has never been on their level.

I'm not saying it should be done, but ignoring and dismissing the possibility is sily. another 2 weeks or so of being two of the worst hitters in the majors, and they will probably need to be sent down. No way around it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) Drew Stubbs is a good example of how letting a guy work through his problems at the big league level can pay dividends. And he doesn't have anywhere near the pedigree Beckham does. Yeah, cause he has really lit the baseball world on fire.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:38 PM) This seems incredible for you to post, considering how badly they appear to want to improve. Obviously neither of us are there, but all accounts I have read is that both of them are extremely hard workers. I don't think there are two guys in the organization that think their performance is more unacceptable that Gordon and Carlos. I understand that, but the point remains the same. You don't produce in the big leagues, you don't get to play in the big leagues. This is a great test to see how they rebound.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:51 PM) The leg kicks do look similar. They do have different release points, but when they both go back and wind their arm back, they look strikingly similar. Youtube Kerry Wood, I think the similarities between Wood and Scherzer are a lot more obvious.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 29, 2010 -> 10:49 AM) A Walker success story Even if his success is due to Walker (which I doubt), it is still a horrible track record for Walker.

I'd like to see pitchers start challenging Rios with high fastballs away. I wonder if he can handle them with his hands so low. If I recall, pitchers were killing him with low pitches last year when he had his hands high.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 30, 2010 -> 09:08 PM) I just don't see why anybody with a brain would want Beckham sent down. He proved last year he can hit on this level. He's the same guy. Let him play. Bat him ninth. Let him play. He hasn't proved s***. Yeah, he showed he can hit the ball first time through the league, but he hasn't been able to adjust at all to the new way pitchers are pitching him. Personally, I'm not oppossed to sending him and Quentin (if he's got options left) down. Batting sub .200 at the major league level as an everyday player for 2 months is unacceptable. Even if we have no one better to replace them, hopefully it sends a message to them and tells them what they are doing now is unacceptable. If they are too fragile mentally to handle being sent down when they are sucking, they don't belong in the majors to begin with.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 30, 2010 -> 05:59 PM) Do it and get over it so we don't have to hear about it anymore. Would you rather hear about it or see it on the field about 60-70% of the time when the white sox play?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 30, 2010 -> 09:47 PM) Viciedo is doing wonderfully this year and where did "bad attitude" come from? Wonderfully? Sure, this season is a lot more encouraging than last season, but he's put up most of his stats in the same ballpark Brent Lillibridge is mashing in, and he has a 42:5 K:BB. Thats something I'm not gonna hold my breath on.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 30, 2010 -> 08:33 PM) I think the Angels would part with Trumbo...I think the bigger problem is getting Kenny to part with Konerko this early in the season. A 24 year old 1B with a terrible K:BB ratio in the minors is hardly anything to get excited about. At best Trumbo looks like a platoon player, but thats only if he can mash lefties. But to be honest though, even if we do trade Konerko, I'd still want us to offer him a contract in the offseason, see if we can bring him back. I'd even tell him that before I trade him just so he doesn't sell his house or anything. Its something I wish we kept open with Thome and Contreras.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 30, 2010 -> 06:17 PM) Is it just me, or does Scherzer's delivery look a lot like Verlander's? Verlander: Scherzer today: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_...ame_pk%3D264559 I guess the leg kicks are similar, but then again a lot of pithers have similar leg kicks. Other than that, there isn't much similarity. Verlander is a lot more under control while Scherzer is more herky-jerky and throws from a lower 3/4's. Also, I can't tell for sure, but it looks to me Scherzer might be throwing across his body (which is not good for pitchers who throw hard, see Kerry Wood). Actually, if anything, Scherzer is a lot more similar to Kerry Wood mechanics wise.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 30, 2010 -> 05:51 PM) He had walked and hit the last two batters he faced. And it was only a 3-0 game at the time. It was the right move. For selfish reasons, I wanted him to stay in there. 20 K's would've been a cinch it not for the high pitch count. I still think you let your starter get out of that situation. See how he handles the pressure situation. Plus, as long as he got the pitch over the plate, they weren't going to hit him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 30, 2010 -> 05:43 PM) because he threw 113 pitches..? Still, you are gonna take him out in the middle of an inning? I'll excuse the pitch count argument because there are concerns with shoulder fatigue, but why in earth do you take him out in the middle of an inning.

It would benefit Quentin if he didn't try and pull everything. I want to throw up everytime I see a batter trying to pull every single pitch. Needless to say, I've wanted to throw up for a long time now.

I can't figure why they would take him out so early when he was clearly dominating.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 30, 2010 -> 03:03 PM) Did anybody just see what Max Scherzer did to the A's? OH MY f***ING GOD!!!!! That was worse than child molestation. 14 K's in 5 2/3 IP. His FB was consistently 94-97 (hit 99 once). His change-up was a full 3-4 MPH higher than it had been all season. His slider, the few times he threw it, looked Marmol-esque. From a pure dominance standpoint, that was the best single-game performance I've seen from a pitcher all year. LOL, of course he does that after I mention how I think a bullpen role might be the best role for him.