Vance Law

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:32 AM) Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him. Isn't Camden one of the best hitters parks in baseball?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:30 AM) Fine. Then my question is still valid. If we swap Fields and Gio for Bedard and extend him long term...does that make us a contender in the AL Central next year? I would say, yes, contender, with a couple caveats. Not the favorite, but that gives us the best rotation in the division if Contreras is at least around league average and Crede is healthy.

If we're willing to give Rowand $55 mil for 4 years, why would we not give him $60 mil for 5 years? It's $5 mil. $12 mil gets deferred another year further into the future. If he's still good, leave him in there. If he's medium, trade him. If he sucks, put him on the bench. My point being, the logic of "we don't want to pay someone $12 mil to sit on the bench, 4 years from now" doesn't make much sense coupled with "we want to pay him $7 mil more, sooner."

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:00 AM) Zito and Zambrano are pitchers and Soriano is not a LFer, so it can't be compared. Ichiro (5 for 75) is far and away above Hunter, yet Hunter got paid like Ichiro. Vernon Wells is better than Hunter as well and 3 years younger. The Angels indeed ruined it. Vernon Wells is not better than Hunter. He put up a .706 OPS last year. That is Pods territory. And he didn't steal 40 bases.

I have a hard time buying any of this Williams promised people he'd get Cabrera some 6 months ago. With all of the things that can happen, with every team wanting him, with the Angels, Dodgers, Tigers, Yankees and other teams clearly having more they could offer. If Williams called me up 6 months ago and said, "I promise we're getting Miguel Cabrera," I'd say, "No you're not, you can't promise that. You don't know. Nobody does." And he'd say, "Yeah, that's true."

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it I read this in the Tribune "White Sox general manager Ken Williams received a call Tuesday night from curious right fielder Jermaine Dye." But not what you're saying. Where does that come from? I would find it rather bizarre for Dye to sign contingent upon trade and free agent acquisitions which may or may not happen in the future. I can't imagine Williams would "promise" that he would get anyone.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) Every time I read comments like this about Crede, I think Maggs, who signed a top 10 contract after a surgery that was considered experimental in the US. Crede does have value and if Scott Boras was our GM, we could get a ton for him. There was an escape-hatch clause where the Tigers could void Maggs contract after the first season if he spent 25 days on the DL with the same knee problem. Maggs was also a much better hitter/star/coveted player. And everyone can find room for one more outfielder with that upside. There are few teams whose 3rd baseman is bad enough to be worth the gamble, and worth giving us anything of value. Where could he possibly go? Brewers, Phillies, Giants. Anywhere else?

QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) The more I think about it the more I think that we should keep Crede and hopefully let him build some value during the first half of next season. These were my thoughts going into the offseason. It just doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen. Kenny is between a rock and a hard place with Crede and could get screwed either way. Trade him away now for peanuts and some fans on this board will be screaming bloody murder for not getting more, while the even less informed fans that make up the masses will go even more apes***. Same if they non-tender him. The "sign him and let him play and build up value" camp was a lot larger here before his name started popping up in trade rumors and before they decided the Fields in left experiment was over. The only other option, seemingly is start Fields in AAA and have Crede play and trade him in the 1st half and risk that his back isn't working and we're paying him for nothing, pissing off all of the fans. The safe bet is trade him now for peanuts. The riskier with potentially bigger reward is to have him start the season at 3rd. Anyway, my point is, here is this really awesome player on the Brewers who I've heard of. Do you think we can get him for Crede?

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) yankees didnt spend 200 million on cano cabrera chamberlain hughes kennedy tabta etc etc nor did the red sox spend 200 million on buccholz lester ellsbury pedroia youkilis delcarmen masterson lowrie (not to mention han ram, and sanchez who they traded for beckett) no doubt speding 200 millions helps keep guys like arod and manny around, but thats not why those teams have up and coming farm systems that are fertile enough to go out and acquire johan santana in a trade Yes and we've had Fields, Crede, Buehrle, McCarthy, Rowand, Gio, Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo (they got us Freddy), Chris Young, Carter, Cunningham, DLS, etc to help us now, and in trades in the past and in the future. Cano, Melky, and Chamberlain aren't getting the Yankees into the playoffs on their own. Having the gabillions of dollars to buy and pay for A-Rod, Abreu, Matsui, Damon, Clemmons, Petite, Jeter. They haven't needed to trade away prospects when they can just go out and buy an All-Star team. Pay $51 million for negotiating rights etc

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:51 PM) really? i think the yankees red sox and dodgers have managed to do it pretty effectively over the last 4 years.... its all about investing money in scouting, in the draft, and in amateur talent in other countries...not necessarily just trading away vets for prospects (though that helps, but now a days cheap players are more and more valuable to the point where nobody wants to trade them) It's also all about having $200 million to spend.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) because building a minor league organization is important not only for developing players, but for trading for players....ya know like miguel cabrera ..and Jim Thome and Javier Vasquez and Freddy Garcia

QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) No -he's overmatched by other GM's It would appear. The GMs themselves (do they manage to shout their demands in a more convincing fashion), or by the prospects in other teams' systems?

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) Orlando Cabrera is better than Renteria. But you are right otherwise. Thome is better than Sheff, too.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) The LA Times is reporting this morning that Jones is looking for a deal that exceeds Hunter's and that Rowand isn't far behind that. I read (can't remember where, now) yesterday Rowand was looking for 5 years and $60 million.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 12:42 PM) They want to move Stewart to 2nd base. Yes. Colorado has 2 3rd basemen. Crede won't be going there.

Either one would work fine though Loretta presumably is more expensive which is no good. Ozuna's speed helps him out and makes him more attractive coming off the bench as a pinch runner. Ultimately, for the amount of time they'd see, the number of at bats they'd get, there is not much difference- dollars make the difference. I'm a fella who pays attention to statistics primarily. But for every person on this site who says something like, "If Williams has a leadoff hitter who puts up a .330 OBP instead of a .350 OBP, I'm gonna stab him in the head with a screwdriver", I wish these brain geniuses would realize that in that scenario over 600 at bats, the .350 OBP player would reach base only 12 more times over the entire year- 2 more times per month- one more time on base every 2 weeks. You are talking about a difference of about 4 runs for the whole season. Now look at Ozuna vs. Loretta. Getting 150-200 at bats on the year. Their difference is pretty meaningless because they are similar enough that they are within each other's margins of reasonably expected potential outcomes on offense.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 12:27 AM) Not sure if it makes sense, it probably doesn't, but if Crisp is acquired to play CF, and that is the last of the big moves this off-season, I hate the Quentin deal. You are right that that doesn't make any sense. Feel free to hate anything that nets Crisp because it's likely not worth it. Also he's a worse player than Quentin. It seems idiotic to then "hate" the Quentin deal which is excellent in its own right.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 09:44 PM) I'd say that about a lot of GM's but not Kenny. If he was willing to deal Aaron Rowand coming off a world series championship he'll be willing to deal Paul Konerko if it makes the team better. Maybe. But there is a big difference between trading Rowand and getting Jim f***ing Thome, and dealing Konerko and getting Conor Jackson. The ill-effects of dealing fan favorite Rowand were tempered by receiving Jim goddamn Thome.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:02 AM) He'll be given away like Tad Iguchi was. Other teams know the WSox don't have a choice so it really isn't worth holding out much. It seems that you are silly and uninformed.

I could definitely see Crede being traded for Pujols and Johan and Manny Ramirez and Babe Ruth or else one of these other ridiculous joke trades that a Sox fan has suggested here that surprisingly works out well for their very own favorite team the Sox who are trying to dump their 3rd baseman coming off of back surgery.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) It's possible Quentin gets shipped to BOS along with another good prospect for Crisp. And I do think it's possible the Sox would give up a good prospect plus Quentin for Crisp. BOS wants a good position player and top pitching prospect supposedly and the White Sox really seem to like Crisp a lot (at least in the media). That would be a disaster and won't happen. Kenny was smart enough to get Quentin, I feel certain he's not dumb enough to trade him for worse, more expensive Crisp.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) Writing has gotta be on the wall for Sweeney and Anderson doesn't it? It's probably been on the wall for a while. The writing that has always been on the wall is that when and if they perform well they'll play for the Sox or be attractive enough trade. SWEENEY IS 22 YEARS OLD! HE'S 22 YEARS OLD. The guy we just got (which I am very happy about) is 25. There is certainly plenty of time for Sweeney to find himself on the Sox. Go out and dominate AAA, he hasn't done that yet. Anderson was never going to go into the 2008 season with a spot on the team. He needs to prove he's healthy and prove he can hit in the minors. If he destroys AAA pitching (I'd like to see that) some other team will want him if we don't have room for him.

This deal is pretty hot. Quentin is capable of putting up Fukudomelike numbers for the league minimum, and we can still make a big upgrade by adding one of the FA center fielders. Hell yeah, Williams!

I believe he lost weight and came into 2007 in better shape, brought his defense back up, and it's considered that he really was a top CF this year. I don't disagree with you regarding his hitting.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) Jones would have made at least $16M in arbitration next year, they didn't want to pay that. Even if you have a "brutal" season you never see a paycut and almost always see a payraise. I see, thanks.