JUGGERNAUT

As for those who suggested scalpers as a solution it's certainly a good answer to solving a personal issue & I did bring it up to the group. But it really has little to do with the policy or the SOX. Scalpers are not something the SOX rely on to get more fans into the park. At least I've never heard JR say that. In any case so I have greater weight in this argument with my friends for the remaining games & next year, can you please let me know if you run into any & what the price is they were selling the LD for? Thanks

ALL of which was posted AFTER he called us assholes and told us to :fyou . Keep up. So then it's okay? I'd keep up, but you keep changing the rules. Ok, unlike some of you my mind multi-tasks & relates 1 thing to another. I'm seeing comments from season ticket holders essentially telling me to go F myself with the UD issue. Then I'm seeing a slew of NO votes. Translation: 1 in the same. Now maybe some of you aren't as adept in reading betw the lines to find the "go F yourself" implication in posts as others, but they are pretty clear to see for some. Once again, this is a moot point. The other thread as no such insults & the season ticker holders still voted the same. The implication of the votes is quite clear.

And please stop with the idiocy of saying UD people steal your seat in the LD. Ever since they added ushers for all sections on the stairwells, they don't let you in the section without the proper ticket. We've sit behind the BPs several times this year on both weekdays & weekends & not once did the usher not check are tickets when returning to our seats.

Yeah.. you were not at all rude or confrontational... Steff, come on now. That was after the posts complaining about what I should have done & such & such. This was a non-confrontational thread looking solely for votes but suddenly turned into a season ticket holder's diatribe on why walk-ups suck. Well far be it for me to throw some fire in the other direction. Can you show me where someone said walk ups suck..? Steff, I paraphrased so as not to re-write a book. The basic theme of those early posts by the season ticket holders basically stated walk-ups suck. Sorry.. but not one person, except you, said that. Don't even see anywhere where it was even close to being implied. It's not worth the time to go through all posts in both threads to see the offenses. The hand-writing is on the wall in the votes. Since you season-ticket holders don't believe it affects attendance & you're Gods as far as SOX policies go then it doesn't matter what walk-ups like myself think. I hate repeating myself but this is not about price: My fair-weather SOX fan friends & myself would have easily shelled out $20 for an UD seat & LD concourse access. When you factor parking, tickets, & concessions the total would have come to about $324.00. But as you say, we are fair-weather fans who go to the Cell mostly to feel good & be entertained. So our $324.00 tonight is not a welcome site. I understand now. Since we had 10 other nights this year on the same basis, I guess we should take our $3240.00 & spend it on some other entertainment venue.

Yeah.. you were not at all rude or confrontational... Steff, come on now. That was after the posts complaining about what I should have done & such & such. This was a non-confrontational thread looking solely for votes but suddenly turned into a season ticket holder's diatribe on why walk-ups suck. Well far be it for me to throw some fire in the other direction. Can you show me where someone said walk ups suck..? Steff, I paraphrased so as not to re-write a book. The basic theme of those early posts by the season ticket holders basically stated walk-ups suck.

Dick you're wrong on several accounts. It's true the initial charter was a hotel tax but as they ISFA grew so did the tax bounty. It expanded to taxi's & airport taxes. And now it's one big mess to sort out because the ISFA absorbed the new Soldier's Field as well. But by & large all of the taxes that were put in place to support the ISFA have had an adverse effect on the Chicago metropolitan tax base. Now look, I agree the seat stealing is a bad thing but they police that very well these days. There are ushers at every stairwell that check tickets. You keep making this a price issue & it's not. Let me ask you this. If they had a flexible policy where when the LD sells out, those willing to pay a LD price for an UD ticket + LD concourse would have that opportunity would you still object? I've been there are Cub days & packed house nights & I've never once had a problem with bathroom lines. They have plenty of bathrooms on the lower level to support 30-35K fans. I would say they have twice as many bathrooms than all of Wrigley. The only problem I've ever seen is Cub fans get so drunk they can't find the bathroom so they just start pissing in corners. So I find the bathroom argument hard to believe.

Yeah.. you were not at all rude or confrontational... Steff, come on now. That was after the posts complaining about what I should have done & such & such. This was a non-confrontational thread looking solely for votes but suddenly turned into a season ticket holder's diatribe on why walk-ups suck. Well far be it for me to throw some fire in the other direction.

Season ticket base is 15,152 as reported at the Season Ticket Holders party 2 weeks ago. Does that number include partial season & pkg holders or just full season? Would you happen to know the number of partial & pkg holders? Just trying to figure out how much is attributed to walk-ups like myself. It's not a matter of $$$ for me as it is scheduling. I'm out of town a lot, & I don't have die-hard friends who are SOX fans that would go in my place.

You seem like a nice person, so I will be nice. I have no idea what you are talking about. I told my friends who were interested in tonight's game the story. The LD is sold out are we still on? They said no. They don't want to go if they don't get access to the LD concourse. End of story. I don't s*** on my SOX fan friends. I respect their opinions. They don't want to go now, & I can't really argue with them. They are still my friends & I think no less of them in their decision. Jaggernut.. you need to go back and read the first page of this thread. You were very rude and confrontational (by giving us ST Holders a big :fyou ) because we didn't answer your poll the right way. Obviously this thread took a wrong turn somewhere... but you were at the wheel. Why don't you head down there today and get tickets for tomorrow. Yes... they will be full price, but at least you'll have them and be in the LD. BTW.. just because TM says the lower bowl is sold doesn't mean it is. They ususlly hold tickets (for whatever reason) and a lot of the time you can get sweet LD seats right before gametime. Additionally.. there is ALWAYS guys in lot E selling LD tickets for face and sometimes less. Like tonight, they'll sell them at half price just to get rid of them. Steff you're wrong. I did not become rude & confrontational until season ticket holders went that route by telling us walk-up fans what to do & where to go. I'll see if I can convince my friends to go the "chance" route. They've never shown that face before but it's worth a try. Thanks for the info.

I've seen a reference where the season ticket holder base is 13,000. Steff claims it's 17,000. The season avg is 23,066. So I think this is an important stat in this argument as it looks like the non-season ticket holders are about 43% of attendance.

You seem like a nice person, so I will be nice. I have no idea what you are talking about. I told my friends who were interested in tonight's game the story. The LD is sold out are we still on? They said no. They don't want to go if they don't get access to the LD concourse. End of story. I don't s*** on my SOX fan friends. I respect their opinions. They don't want to go now, & I can't really argue with them. They are still my friends & I think no less of them in their decision.

It was too specific. Someone told me I didn't ask whether it hurt attendance but rather whether they would go to more games. Since the decision to go to more games could have nothing to do with the UD policy it needed to be clarified.

Myself & a group of fans used to buy tickets on the rare nights the LD was sold out like tonight. We would for the most part spend time in the UD, but on food runs we would go down to the LD & both eat & watch the game from the concourse. When we finished eating we would grab some beers & watch the rest of the game from our UD seats. Now that we can't do that any more my friends prefer to just meet in a local bar & watch the game there. This is not about price but rather availability. If the SOX want to offer an UD seat + LD access for a LD price that is fine with us. Now I've heard season ticket holders make arguments about we should have done this & we should have done that, but if you know the history of MLB it's one of the few sports where you use to be able to decide on game day whether you wanted to go to the park or not. In my opinion the new policy hurts attendance. I welcome a ticket offering an UD seat & LD access for a LD price. But watching the game from the UD is a less than enjoyable experience for most.

I call for an end to the thread. I never should have asked it with respect to a personal affirmation of whether you would or would not go to more games. Though I can't stand the season ticker holders comments in this thread it at least gives us a perspective why they really don't give a s*** about attendance. Just for the record, this is not entirely about $. If the SOX were to offer an UDB ticket for the same price as the LDR ticket we would gladly pay the difference for access to the best part of the park. I will open a new poll which just asks a general question not dependant on a person's current ticket holding status.

...but they're OVER .500!!!!! It's okay, I'm sure you'll support them by flipping the radio on... The people here are not ALL season-ticket holders, so your argument is as lame as your pathetic cry for help. Go, don't go, who cares??? Don't worry it wasn't you. Ass-: They sold out the LD reserved. I didn't get my tm transaction done in time. Yeah, go ahead laugh it up, condemn me for trying to buy tickets at the last minute, or whatever high & mighty excuse you want to come up with. The fact remains it's now the restricted access policy that's keeping me away. I'm actually more of a die-hard than my friends & am willing to go the 500 sec route, but they won't. It's no fun being in a restricted access section alone.

What this thread proves is you don't give a s*** about the walk-up fan base. So be it. Since all fans who aren't season ticket holders are s*** in your eyes, then keep your Mutha-F'g mouth shut when it comes to attendance. You've pissed me off so much now, I'm not going tonight. :fyou

Ahhh.. fairweather. Now I see what drives your logic. Demanding performance from your team is what separates us from sCrUB fans. I do support them by watching them on TV or listening to them on the radio when they are performing below mediocrity.

Your absolutely right. If the Sox don't win the World Series in the next 10 years, it will be because of guys like me who have my full season tickets paid for in January. Not because some cheap ass like you can' t come up with an extra couple bucks to sit in the lower deck and decides to stay home. I'm sure there were pretty good lower deck seats to tonights game back in April. And if you ever went to a game, you could go to the advance game window and save yourself the ticketmaster fees. :fyou. I go to about 12 gms a year. And I usually pay the ticket-master fees. Unlike you I have a principle: the team must have a .500 record for me to go see them. My friends adhere to this rule as well. Of course the first month & opening day is an exception. When they consistently make the playoffs year after year, like the A's, the M's, & NYY's then we'll consider bending our rules & go for season tickets or at least ticket pkgs. Enjoy your less packed concourse & your view of all the empty seats in the UD as you cheer on a team that struggles past mediocrity year after year on your principles.

I'm done trying to help this team. The LD capacity is 24K. When the team is still w/out a championship 10 yrs from now because we still can't support a 70MIL payroll we can all point to the posts in this thread who somehow think UD ticket holders near game day should be penalized for supporting the SOX. You can't get past 24K without these ticket holders, but of course restricting the amenities of the park to them is a sure way to get their support. http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/040036449D083D47/? FANS HOLDING INDIVIDUAL GAME TICKETS FOR THE UPPER DECK (500 LEVEL) WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS OTHER LEVELS OF THE BALLPARK. That's a sure way to get to a 30K average!

Try doing something for yourself rather than b****ing and moaning and blaming others. Are you brain dead? I'm obviously doing something for myself with gathering votes to get the policy changed. And only a loser would become a season ticket holder for a team that hasn't won a WS in nearly a century now. It's not a logical option.

Dude, you need to VOTE! Don't just comment. How the F any SOX fan could vote NO to this question escapes me. Perhaps I should have restricted this poll to SOX FANS planning to go the games. It looks as though we have trolls voting. :fyou trolls! Juggernaut, I DID vote....I voted No. The question was whether or not the policy would prevent me from attending games. Since I don't prefer to sit in the UD, it really doesn't. I am not going to stay home because the Upper Deck people can't walk the concourse! That said, I can sympathize and understand your frustration. It just doesn't affect me since I don't sit up there. Then vote MAYBE! How am I going to get the policy changed if the NO votes > YES votes. And to you season ticket holders ... a BIG WIDE :fyou. When the team is s***ty in years to come because we still can't support a 70MIL payroll because of ASS- like you I'll be sure to throw your pompous exclusive vote up your ass! DON'T YOU TELL ME HOW TO VOTE!!!! Who do you think you are, a Chicago precinct captain???? It doesn't affect me at all, so it's not even a MAYBE in my mind. I understand the point of your poll, but you're strongarming the wrong people here!! ....just for that I'm gonna vote NO AGAIN, TOUGH GUY!!!!! You people are hopeless. Try thinking of someone other than yourselves once in a while.

Dude, you need to VOTE! Don't just comment. How the F any SOX fan could vote NO to this question escapes me. Perhaps I should have restricted this poll to SOX FANS planning to go the games. It looks as though we have trolls voting. :fyou trolls! Juggernaut, I DID vote....I voted No. The question was whether or not the policy would prevent me from attending games. Since I don't prefer to sit in the UD, it really doesn't. I am not going to stay home because the Upper Deck people can't walk the concourse! That said, I can sympathize and understand your frustration. It just doesn't affect me since I don't sit up there. Then vote MAYBE! How am I going to get the policy changed if the NO votes > YES votes. And to you season ticket holders ... a BIG WIDE :fyou. When the team is s***ty in years to come because we still can't support a 70MIL payroll because of ASS- like you I'll be sure to throw your pompous exclusive vote up your ass!

Dude, you need to VOTE! Don't just comment. How the F any SOX fan could vote NO to this question escapes me. Perhaps I should have restricted this poll to SOX FANS planning to go the games. It looks as though we have trolls voting. :fyou trolls!

It's not a question of $$$, but seats available. Right now there are only Lowerdeck Reserved available for tonight's game in the Lowerdeck. All BOX & bleachers are sold out. The LDR are selling fast. That means there will be only UD (sec 500) left by 5pm when I can get down there to buy tickets. Now if they will take $8 & give me both a sec 500 ticket & LD access I would be more than happy to fork it over. As it is we are likely to pay ticketmaster the $4 to reserve LDR. Of course how they SOX profit from that surcharge is beyond me. I think tm get's it all.

I'm gathering votes to try & get the restricted 500 access decision repealed at SOX PARK. As many of you know if you buy a 500 section ticket (Upperdeck BOX or reserved) you are restricted from Lowerdeck access. That means you do not got to check out the CF view, the CF walkway, Bullpen sports bar, Fast pitch, & the many food canopies on the lower deck. This policy really sucks & has kept myself & several friends from going to the ballpark. You ask why only 24K were there on Sat. This is one of the primary reasons. 24K is pretty much close to Lowerdeck capacity. Who wants to buy a ticket to a game in which 50-75% of the amenities are restricted to Upperdeck ticket holders? Thanks for your support!