JUGGERNAUT

I'm not against re-signing Val. But he needs to understand that he will only be used as a LH. He either hits that way vs LH's or he sits. as RHB: .424 OPS (not even worth mentioning) as LHB: .255A, .337OBP, .511SLG (.848 OPS) Odds are he will have more success as LHB vs LH. The monster trade would be: Maggs+Koney to STL for Renteria+Drew. STL will do it because Tino is costing them 7.5MIL & they've been trying to trade Drew all summer. Getting Maggs will take the scrub rivalry to a whole new level. Pull in a 3rd team to take Drew for in return for a decent arm. Renteria negates the need to sign Val. Val+Koney+Maggs saves 28MIL over the payroll. Renteria costs 5MIL (2 option yrs worth about 13MIL). Renteria's #'s: vs LH: (.376A, 477OBP, 651SLG, 1128OPS) vs RH:(.314A, 363OBP, 431SLG, 794OPS ) Next comes R. Alomar: vs LH: (194A, 250O, 291S, 541OPS) vs RH: (284A, 366O, 378S, 744OPS) I can't see paying him more than 3-4mil for those numbers. He's essentially another failed switch hitter. He had success a few yrs back, but I think it's gone now. You can't do anything with Thomas. If he wants back, he's back at 6mil. But you can play him more at 1B which should help him at the plate. Lee: His numbers are better than average but certainly a long way from being an all-star. I don't think he would command more than 7mil on the FA mkt or arbitration. He has the rbi #'s but he's not even in the 900 OPS range. Everett: vs LH(256A, 326O, 388S, 714 OPS) vs RH(297A, 385O, 566S, 951 OPS) I think his numbers are too good to retain him. He's productive against both & great against RH's. I can't see him signing for less than 7mil & multi-yr deal. The bottom line KW has to ask himself, is which players had the biggest impact in the 2nd 1/2: I think the answer is Lee, Everett, Thomas, Maggs, Koney, & Alomar. But Koney offers nothing more than a bat & can kill a rally with a dp. That too me should set the priority of retaining these players. Which players showed the most improvement? Lee, Everett, Thomas There are so many FA's that will be available that it's very hard to predict what the SOX will do. KW will probably try to find bargains. Guys that come down hard from previous pay (like Rogers) & that will ultimately decide who stays & who goes. I don't beleive he will do contract extensions for Everett & Alomar. It's more likely they might offer arbitration (where they have to pay at least 80% of their current pay levels) or go through FA. The only players they will attempt to do an extension for are Colon, & Lee. I figure the payroll will be < 60mil again.

I'm sick of you always putting down SOX players Bmr. Garland has given up no more than 4 runs in his last 17 starts & no more than 3 runs in his last 7 starts. So when you say they will pound us you sound like an arse for putting down Garland. Jon lost 4-1 last week vs MIN battling Santana. I like his chances against Rogers who has given up 12 runs in about 18 innings over his last 3 starts. As for next year, the SOX need to look long & hard at signing Colon & here's why: 1) 221+ ip, & 3 starts to go. He saves your bullpen. That can save you 3-4mil a yr alone in DL time from the bullpen. Need evidence? How often has Gordon remained healthy enough to pitch a whole season? 2) If he can be had for 10mil/yr consider the impact over the last 3 yrs under KW. 10.25 for DW, 3.25 for Ritchie, 9 for Colon. Total = 24mil. You save 6mil & had 1 contending yr to show for it. Spend the $ on Colon. 3) Stopper. Colon has stopped more losing streaks than any pitcher on the SOX since Black Jack McDowell. 4) 8 CG. Nothing spells dominance more than CG's. With 3 starts to go, he's still got a shot at 10 & over 245 ip. The Sox have not had a starter with that many innings in a very long time. 5) Post-season experience & success.

You must be a homosexual with your need to celebrate that word so much. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I beleive he had a total of 527 in 2002 & he had 531 in 2003. So he needs 42 in the next 12 gms. It's not a given he'll get it. Manuel is sure to sit him against LH's. LH's they will likely face: Rogers, Gobble, Anderson, Wells, Anderson, Mays I'll give him 12 in these 6 for late & extra innings. That leaves 30 in 6 gms. It will be very close.

I finally found a reference. 08/31/03 http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mik...la-sports-front White Sox shortstop Jose Valentin is on target to barely accrue the 1,100 combined plate appearances the past two seasons he needs to automatically trigger a $5 million option for next season.

What Val gave up for the SOX: Sure, Valentin is still getting a bundle of cash. He'll make $5 million a year, and the deal includes a $5 million team option for 2004 with a $500,000 buyout. But he could have had more. The Baltimore Orioles offered him a four-year deal worth a reported $21.4 million, and two other clubs also were willing to pay him more money.

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/baseball/artic...2254823,00.html A more detailed article on who owe's what & what each team is likely to do. CHICAGO would like to lower its payroll, so it won't try to re-sign second baseman Roberto Alomar or outfielder Carl Everett. But the White Sox do want to keep right-hander Bartolo Colon, and with no heir apparent at shortstop, they figure to pick up a $5 million option on Jose Valentin. If first baseman Frank Thomas decides to stay, the Sox probably will have to move a right-handed hitter from a group that includes Magglio Ordoqez (due $14 million in 2004), Paul Konerko ($6.375 million) and Carlos Lee ( arbitration-eligible). CHICAGO isn't blinking at agent Adam Katz's indication that outfielder Sammy Sosa will test the free-agent market instead of exercising options worth $37.5 million over the next two years. The Cubs get some salary room with free agency for first baseman Eric Karros and second baseman Mark Grudzielanek, but the odds are they can't afford right-hander Kerry Wood, in line for a multiyear deal a year before free agency, and right-hander Matt Clement, who has a $6 million option.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/m...o/04agency.html I can't find any information about Val's option being guaranteed.

This is encouraging: It's an intriguing bit of news that Williams recently approached Bartolo Colon, Robbie Alomar, Carl Everett and Tom Gordon to sound them out about contract extensions. Colon is probably a dream. No one can ever outbid the NYY & you would have to think there is no better replacement for the Rocket than Colon in that rotation. But you never know. I think if there is a chance to lock in Colon at a 10-11mil/yr you have to take it. Gordon will be difficult to keep. There are several teams like the NYY willing to pay 4-5mil a yr for Gordon. Everett & R Alomar should be signable. But it can't happen unless you prune Val, Maggs, & Koney from the salary books. Thomas' 100 RBI's for 6mil is still good value. The most disturbing news in the article is that Lee, Buerhle, & Garland all get to test arbitration waters. I have to agree with Rogers. That adds another 15 mil to the books easy. So best case is probably: Losing Colon, Maggs, Koney, & Val. Keeping Lee, Crede, R Alomar, Everett, Thomas, S Alomar, & Olivo. Adding Renteria, Borchard (or Drew, or some new guy). Keeping Garland, Buerhle, & E-LO. I just hope if there is any way possible that we keep Colon. You guys don't much care for stats but his don't lie: OPS vs: 97' 810 98' 704 99' 711 00' 700 01' 741 02' 687 03' 688 (680 vs LH, 690 vs RH) 2 dominant yrs in a row.

Rogers is thinking about trades. It's very possible KW will pull a monster trade with STL. Koney + Maggs to STL for Renteria & Drew. STL has been shopping Drew forever. He's a better than avg player. The O power-outage in STL down the stretch will put the pressure on & Maggs is a perfect fit with their rivalry with the scrubs. Tino is making 7.5mil, so they can afford Koney. Val will NOT make his 575 ab's required to lock in that option. So the SOX can shave over 10mil & shore up the infield. They can then use that 10mil to sign Colon. They can save another 4mil if they involve a 3rd team to take Drew. And come away with an arm in the process. Colon's the key. You don't let a 102 mph freak get away. You're basically conceding if you do.

I agree with almost everything. But Carlos having Bonds potential, come on. What has he done to make you think he can be one of the greatest hitters ever. He looks like he will be an allstar but he hardly looks like a hall of famer. Sounds good to me. I wouldn't be complaining. Ok. What I meant by Bonds potential is the 40/40 club. Not a HOF. Keep in mind Carlos is a Latin player so it's taking more time for him to learn to be a great player. But he's taken great strides this yr. Sammy didn't do crud until his 6 yr & then it clicked. Carlos is showing the same potential at the plate with much more speed. He's essentially a speedy tight end playing MLB. I'd compare him to Jose Canseco but I think Carlos is a much better fielder. Maggs might very well put up Manny #'s some day, but he's outside the price range for the SOX. The best thing that happened the 2nd 1/2 is Konerko getting out of his slump. Now he's definitely tradeable. St. Louis needs Maggs more than Renteria. They have a good D SS coming up. Maggs will more than replace Renteria's offense. So I think they will do the deal. If a 3rd team can be pulled in to get Drew the SOX might also be able to get an arm in the deal. Tino is making 7.5mil, so trading Koney to the Cards is not out of the question either. The Cards can help the SOX get Renteria, and shave off 15mil from the payroll. That 15 can go towards re-sign Lee, Everett, R Alomar, & Colon.

I agree with almost everything. But Carlos having Bonds potential, come on. What has he done to make you think he can be one of the greatest hitters ever. He looks like he will be an allstar but he hardly looks like a hall of famer. Sounds good to me. I wouldn't be complaining. Ok. What I meant by Bonds potential is the 40/40 club. Not a HOF. Keep in mind Carlos is a Latin player so it's taking more time for him to learn to be a great player. But he's taken great strides this yr. Sammy didn't do crud until his 6 yr & then it clicked. Carlos is showing the same potential at the plate with much more speed. He's essentially a speedy tight end playing MLB. I'd compare him to Jose Canseco but I think Carlos is a much better fielder. Maggs might very well put up Manny #'s some day, but he's outside the price range for the SOX.

Manny Ramirez may be overpaid but he get's it done. (1112 OPS vs LH, 983 vs RH) (1036 OPS @ home, 994 OPS on road) Compare this to Maggs: (1056 OPS vs LH, 912 vs RH) (957 OPS @ home, 941 OPS on road) If you look at Maggs splits against pitchers he's hit/miss. Little in between. He either beats the snot out of a guy or can't do a thing against him. Renteria: (1128 OPS vs LH, 794 OPS vs RH) (895 OPS @ home, 831 OPS on road) Lee: (648 OPS vs LH, 918 vs RH) (888 OPS @ home, 818 OPS on road) Lee's weakness is Renteria's strength. Lee & Renteria will cost about 14mil. Renteria has 18/3 left on his contract if the SOX pick up the 2 option yrs. Otherwise it's 5/1. Lee can be signed for 6/7mil a yr. So you can have both next yr for about 13mil. Saving 7mil on Maggs & Val. To this team 7mil is a lot.

It's time to break up the core: Koney - gone Maggs - trade to Cards for Renteria (3 yrs 18mil left on contract). Lee - lock up - best bat potential on team right now Crede - keep Everett - sign at a low cost RF - bring someone up (Borchy) Colon - lock up - best arm on team right now Garland - lock up - 2nd best arm on team Beurhle - try to lock up E-LO - go 1 yr at a time Alomar - sign him up (both) Thomas - 6mil isn't that bad for 100 RBI DH I think we can afford all that. Colon is a Freak. Don't let him get away. Lee has Bonds potential. Don't let him get away.

http://whitesox.theinsiders.com/3/chat.html Why is Olivo catching this game? The carpet is too much for Sandy?

http://whitesox.theinsiders.com/3/chat.html I'm there. But no one else is.

Is the chat link still working? Do you know what it is? I need to vent.

Of course I just want to add I am a big WOLVERINES fan too so the loss was not unsettling for me. In fact it was more of bummer .. then MICHIGAN is a National Champion contender. GO WOLVERINES! See if you could just let go of some of your hate .. you would feel the same joy I do in supporting both. Back in the day I spent time at both.

CLE has played MIN tough this 2nd 1/2. Min vs CLE: W6-L6 3 left Min vs DET: W5-L1 7 left Magic Numbers: SOX:149GP:80W-69L = 14 MIN:149GP: 80W-69L = 14 KCR:147GP:76W-69L = 18 No blunders for Manuel this time. In a tight game to stop a 3 gm losing streak you stick with Colon. If he doesn't start Colon vs Lohse in gm 3 then I can beat him up again. Best news of the day: SOX will NOT FACE SANTANA! Gardenhire must think Pulido can not beat the Tribe. Milton starts today. Santana MON. Thank you Tribe for playing the Twinks tough to where you consume a Santan start. Prediction: The first team whose MN dips < 10, will win the div. I was debating whether to do it but I think I should. Min vs CLE: W7-L6 2 left Min vs DET: W5-L1 7 left Magic Numbers: MIN:150GP: 81W-69L = 13 SOX:149GP:80W-69L = 14 KCR:149GP:77W-69L = 17 I am praying the SOX get to 10 first.

The anticipation of tonight's game is unreal. I am saying prayers that Manuel does not manage a loss tonight. As it stands we are in 2nd place. 1/2 a gm back. Let's bow our heads: Dear Lord, baseball is a part of Americana & as such we humble ourselves before thee & beseech upon your greatness to bless Loaiza's arm so that he can pitch the best game of his career tonight & silence the Twinks. We know that this is just a game so we also ask for your blessings upon the homeless, hungry, poor, dis-advantages, imprisoned, tortured, enslaved, & any one else on this planet who is toiling in hardship. We ask this through Jesus Christ, our Lord & Savior. Amen.

Ok. Listen up you Golder-Domer trashing punks. It's just one game. Big F'g deal. Blowouts happen or do I need to remind you of ND blowouts over the Wolfies in past years? All that matters in the CFA is which team gets the higher paying bowl game. I still like ND's chances over MI in that marathon. So at season's end you will be jealous of the Gold once again.

CARLOS LEE

CARL EVERETT

ROBERTO ALOMAR The anticipation is unreal today. I don't think a regular season series has meant this much in recent SOX history. This surpases the cross-town classic big time. If I am lucky Manuel will get suspended early for the next 3 games.

1) Who will win the series (CHW/MIN) (2 points)? CHW 2) Will Esteban Loaiza earn his 20th victory (Y/N) (2 points)? Y 3) How many errors will the Sox make (4 points)? 2 4) How many earned runs will Jon Garland allow (4 points)? 4 5) Exactly how many innings will Bartolo Colon pitch (5 points)? 8 1/3 6) How many hits will Carlos Lee have for the series (5 points)? 5 7) What will be the Sox team batting average for the series (.010 either way) (4 points)? .279 8) Who will have more plate apperances, Sandy Alomar or Miguel Olivo (2 points)? Sandy 9) Who will lead the AL Central after the series (2 points)? CHW 10) Which team will hit more doubles (CHW/MIN) (2 points)? CHW TIEBREAKER: 80