JUGGERNAUT

The bigger the series, the dumber Manuel gets. As you know we had a wealth of off days this past week to where Manuel had opportunity of using Wright to re-align his rotation vs the Twinks. So how did the matchups go? gm 1: SOX #1 vs MIN #3 : Sox win - A waste of Colon gm 2: SOX #2 vs MIN #4 : Sox win - A waste of Buerhle, but JM's braindead use of the BP required the cushion gm 3: SOX #4 vs MIN #1 : Min win - The 1-2 punch of Santana-Hawkins says it all gm 4: SOX #3 vs MIN #2 : Min win Some of you will argue that E-LO is not the SOX #3, but it's not records. It's about how well you were expected to pitch before the season started & how well you are pitching now. The same applies to MIN. Santana is pitching like an ACE & most people around MLB felt that was his potential. It all goes back to the NYY series: 08/27: BC vs NYY 08/28: MB vs NYY 08/29: JG vs Det 08/30: DW vs Det 08/31: EL vs Det 09/02: MB vs BOS 09/03: JG vs BOS 09/05: BC vs Cle 09/06: MB vs Cle 09/07: DW vs Cle 09/08: EL vs Lohse 09/09: JG vs ???? 09/10: BC vs Santana 09/11: MB vs Radke That's how you manage a rotation. Now what's the earliest you could see this coming? Santana : 08/24, w off day next start 08/30, w off days 09/05 Radke : 08/26, next start 08/31, w off days 09/06 The rest is pretty straight forward. So yeah I blame Manuel for being brainless in NYY & not seeing the forest betw the trees.

I think dipping under the 20 mark is cause for celebration! SOX:143GP:77W-67L: MN =19 MIN: 143GP:76W-66L: MN =21 KCR:142GP:73W-66L: MN =24 The Sox still control their own destiny, but the rest need help. In need of fan support: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brew/sep03/167106.asp http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/090303_ns_cubsox.html http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...phil&id=1607912 The Chi-town race: SOX: 77W-66L .538 CUB: 76W-67L .531 too close for comfort, but we're still ahead! :fyou Manuel! I loathe your very existence as manager of the SOX. :dips*** Magic Numbers: SOX:146GP:78W-68L = 17 MIN:146GP: 78W-68L = 17 KCR:144GP:74W-68L = 21 Time to go update the Track Manuel Blunders thread

This was not about E-LO as much as it was about Radke. I was feeling dred facing both Santana & Radke this series. They have been pretty much the best starters in the ALC for the last month & a 1/2 now. I now people don't like to see it this way, but this is how the series matched up rotation wise: Sox #1 vs Min #3 : Sox Won Sox #2 vs Min #4 : Sox Won Min #1 vs Sox #4 : Min Won Min #2 vs Sox #3 : Min Won It's all about pitching & Manuel's stupidity when it comes to matchups. If we lose this division it will be mostly because of Manuel's stupidity in managing the lineup, rotation, & bullpen. <- MLB sense into JM

I've been to both as well. YS is much worse overall than the Cell, but it's UD is like a 45 deg angle. Much easier to walk for the average fan. I agree with the other poster. The worse mistake at the Cell is not putting the stair well entrances in the middle. That would have completely changed the experience in the UD as far as ease of going to/from the seat for food & such. I think that would be a much better change than lopping off the top 7 rows. Paying less for concessions on the UD would be a big boost to getting people up there as well.

When I was reading the latest 75 BIL, 51 BIL, 45 BIL #'s & then 87 BIL for are war on terrorism & nation building I was speechless. These numbers still get a a rise out of me. Did you know when it's all said & done Afghan & Iraq will have cost us 300+ BIL? I feel like I'm living in Bizzaro world.

John Shoop is the WORST NFL coach in the game today. And that's sugar coating it! God, please steer him to a new career. Pretty, please. I'll throw in 10 Hail Mary's, 5 Our Fathers, & 3 bouts of confession if he quits soon. We are all born with unique talents that make us good at something. Coaching an offense is NOT it for Mr Shoop.

If only I could be a fly on the wall in the Devil's office!

Just curious to find out what most people are going to do.

I'm exhaused after the UD polls. Been there. Done that. Moving on ... I got a new poll all ready for you guys&gals & it has nothing to do with the UD.

I can't do it. The UD sucks. No words will change the experience of vertigo on the stairs. But one thing we can agree: WHITE SOX RULE CHICAGO! For tonight anyways!

I think dipping under the 20 mark is cause for celebration! SOX:143GP:77W-67L: MN =19 MIN: 143GP:76W-66L: MN =21 KCR:142GP:73W-66L: MN =24 The Sox still control their own destiny, but the rest need help. In need of fan support: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brew/sep03/167106.asp http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/090303_ns_cubsox.html http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...phil&id=1607912 The Chi-town race: SOX: 77W-66L .538 CUB: 76W-67L .531 too close for comfort, but we're still ahead!

lol critic i can give you the same number if you want it..... a friend of mine... helps to have a few connections... besides i love making wishes come true...... Well that makes two season ticket holders on here who are helping out complete strangers to get better tickets... Kind blows a hole in your theory, huh EJ? WTF are you talking about? This is about SOX policy & the effect it has on alienating fans from the Cell. When did this become a theory on season ticket holders? There are good & bad people in all groups. I appreciate HSC's efforts but the difference betw her source & tm is that tm is a trusted source. It's not going to be so easy convincing the others. But for NYY the idea of talking something is better than nothing might work. No offense, but they'll ask me to call the BOX first.

So a few bad apples should spoil it for everyone else? Take a look at this: 2000 SOX Attendance : 24,047 avg, 1.948MIL total Now I believe a closer race like we are seeing in 2003 should draw more fans than the run-away race in 2000. I SOX have < 40000 there tonight. I think there is something to the fan alienation assoc with the UD. The 2003 SOX are trailing this number right now by 300K.

Someone needs to learn how to read, because I've said it several times over this has nothing to do with $$$! The only time I am ever affected by this is when the LD sells out. which is never... if you ask at the ticket window for ld seats youll get them.. even on the sox cubs series i was able to score a couple for friends...... ask and you shall recieve..... We don't live or work any where near the BOX office so that's not an option. It's a good 90 min commute for us to the ballpark so it's a hard sell to people who have to travel so far to see a game to show up w/out tickets. Call us the NW burb fans if you will. Critic, F off. The only one wasting their time is you. If you don't like the topic, then don't respond. It's a pretty simple principle to follow. jugg.. im out in schaumburg and i take folks with me all the time who have no tickets.. sometimes we just make it before game time.... we always score.... i can email ya a phone number to call if you want ld seats before you get to the park.. use your charge card and he will hold em for ya.........let me know........ Thanks for the info. I might take you up on that seeing that tm has nothing available for the NYY series.

Someone needs to learn how to read, because I've said it several times over this has nothing to do with $$$! The only time I am ever affected by this is when the LD sells out. which is never... if you ask at the ticket window for ld seats youll get them.. even on the sox cubs series i was able to score a couple for friends...... ask and you shall recieve..... We don't live or work any where near the BOX office so that's not an option. It's a good 90 min commute for us to the ballpark so it's a hard sell to people who have to travel so far to see a game to show up w/out tickets. Call us the NW burb fans if you will. Critic, F off. The only one wasting their time is you. If you don't like the topic, then don't respond. It's a pretty simple principle to follow.

For the record, I've only been in the UD a few times in about 150 appearances since the Cell opened. So this is not about me any more as much as asking this in general for the people who can't afford the price difference as well as the dream that sometime we routinely sell out the LD. I think they should be given the opportunity to experience the concourse in the late innings. They pay good $$$ to support the SOX & for the casual fan who can't attend many games you would like them to have a chance to take in all of the amenities so that they will be more likely to come back. Adding a new stair well entrance at the top of the UD would help as well because it cuts down the number of steps you have to walk. This is typically the biggest complaint I hear. People (men, women, & children) get a little frightened on the stairs because of how steep they. But that change probably isn't cheap. I think the SOX should rent cheap binoculars for UD patrons as well. For maybe $1 more you can rent binoculars that they collect on the way out. These can be made pretty much unbreakable & cheap now a days. That change could probably be had at a low price. I just think UD's should have some access. I don't think they should be penalized by a big crowd or simply not being able to afford the LD prices. I'm thinking of the casual baseball fan who is more of a SOX fan than a NS fan.

Someone needs to learn how to read, because I've said it several times over this has nothing to do with $$$! The only time I am ever affected by this is when the LD sells out.

http://www.isfauthority.com/assets/PDFs/20...nual_Report.pdf The About is pretty much useless. If you look at revenues you wll both a city & state subsidy of 5,000,000. That's in addition to the Hotel Tax revenue. There are also bonds. Btw, it includes the total bond debt on new SF. Nearly 700MIL. The salaries for the ISFA board members are interesting as well. In any case there is enough evidence in that report that both the city & the state have subsidized the Cell since it's inception. Without pissing any one of I'd like to wrap this up. It really is a catch-22 because of the incline of the UD. Many people experience vertigo & that subtracts from an enjoyable experience. Many casual fans go to the park to walk the concourse. Now I don't know if it can be done, but a concourse for the UD would be nice & might attract the casual fan to it. But the catch-22 is that it's a risk that if you make the UD more appealing to the casual fan they might visit more often. It's a high risk & probably not worth taking give the cost it would take to renovate the UD. I've often argued for knocking down some rows on the 3B side because then you could see a nice view of the skyline from the 1B UD. But again that's a major $$$ undertaking. Another option is to build a stair case entrance at the top of the UD so that people have 1/2 the distance to walk either way. This makes it easier to move around. But again it's a major $$$ renovation. So there is no answer w/out spending $$$.

Again, that was the original charter. It's changed over the years to include taxi's & airport related fees.

I never asked for your opinions. Just your vote. So F off. When this franchise dies because of righteous MOMO's like you don't come crying to me.

Well, technically asking fans whether they will or will not attend games does have something to do with attendance :rollseyes:

the UD lines are generally much shorter than downstairs for everything. I can guarentee almost every game that I can leave at a third out and get food or hit the john and be back before the first pitch of the next half inning. There are no super fancy gourmet foods up as there are down, but more than adequete food selections. Adding a few classy type food selections up would be cool. I am a first name basis with almost every UD Sox employee - easier to do with the lesser congestion in the UD and more time to chit chat. And with the other fans - have gotten to be good friends with many of them. What we notice is when out of town fans come up there for thgeir first game at USCF- they invariably remark how beautiful USCF is and how great the UD perspective is. We've heard it so often up there, it is such a cliche. Where I sit, I can see everything in the park. And you have never seen the 4th of July until you've seen the fireworks at USCF and then stepped out on the UD ramps and wtached all the fireworks in all the communities and neighborhoods around - it is a most stunning sight. The only place I would choose to sit other than where I am at is in club section. (I love the club section!) But I can't afford that yet - I am quite content where I am in the upper deck, and if that is all I ever can afford, I'll be happy. If it's SOOOO great up there, then why can't they sell tickets? Most of the people I talk to with regards to the UD say it's too steep & ridiculous to expect someone to stay in that seat & experience that level of vertigo for a 9 in ball game. The farther up you the harder it is to walk down & up without that feeling. Is it just possible that those of you who love the UD are not afraid of heights but the general public might be? Is it just possible that when the incline is 45 deg that the avg person doesn't feel any different, but when it's 60 deg it scares the s*** out of some? Please, stop with the personal experience posts. You're men for Christ sakes. Stop arguing like a woman. Deal with the question from a general perspective trying to consider the general populous.

This is a good idea. Make the UD a unique experience with respect to the food & amenities that are offered. I think that's something I can sell the average fan which makes up my friends. Now if someone can convince JR we'd be making progress. BTW, we had been using the ticket packages in previous years. But with this year expected to be so-so we passed. So that's why we went the walk-up route. I think you're wrong to equate 2003 with 2000. There wasn't anywhere near the buzz you had in 2000 like you do now. Part of that is the sCrUBs & the possibility of a Chi-town series. But when you compare the attendance of the early yrs where you could buy UD & roam I think it's clear it's having an effect on attendance.

Ummm.. excuse me. Where was there a pros and cons listing..? You asked if people would go to more games. Yes, no, and maybe were the replies. Where and when did this turn into an attendance issue..? But there ya go again.. attacking a poster cause he doesn't agree with your logic. Steff, there is a separate poll specific to attendance. The vote is the same.

This is a typical answer. Me, me, me. It's a general question asking you to think beyond YOURSELF! There's already evidence in the pro's & con's of these 2 threads. The cons argued that before the policy people used to buy UD tix & sneak down. The pros argue that with the policy their attendance is worse. So let's go to ESPN for the numbers: The SOX are at 1,637,696 with 10 gms left at the Cell. That would put them at 1.9MIL for the season. That would put them 200K over what they did in 2K2, & 2K1 without a pennant chase. It doesn't seem like a major increase to where you should be suggesting exclusitivty for the fan base.