JUGGERNAUT

Do we start a new thread or should we include the debate on the latest memogate in this one? http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en...ate&btnG=Search Again choose the source you trust the most :rolly I predicted the Dems would take a bath on this issue & now it seems like it going to be naked as well. When will they learn? You had an opening! Try to imagine what they could have said: We looked at the bill before Congress & listen to the debate comparing Terri's right-to-die to that of death penalty inmate's rights & found it convincing in light of the controversy surrounding the case. We choose to err on the side of life in Terri's case. At the same time we are not surprised by the decisions of the courts. Those judges have a history of being death penalty advocates & probably look upon the Schindler's filings as some kind of threat to that. It's sad that conservatives serving on the bench would choose to uphold the right to kill the accused over the right to save the innocent. Think about that. The Dems don't have anything to lose on the right to die issue. So they don't need to support it in this case. This was a great chance to put the GOP against the GOP & paint conservatives on the bench as heartless in the process. They blew it! Politics is not meant to be nice.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Schia...G=Google+Search There's a number of links indicating she's been given morphine to ease her pain & suffering.

That was expected. They are waiting on the FL court of appeals now. This is her absolute last thread of hope & Terri's turn for the worse represents it being stretched to the breaking point. I don't see any hope in that court either. They would rather err on the side of death than to risk any precedent that can be used to thwart the death penalty. I believe what Dershowitz is saying about this. It makes sense. It's sad. It's like punching oneself in the face.

Roids enabled Bonds to hit more HR's which then is factored into the calculation of his OPS, OBP, & SLG. Unless you have another roids player to compare him to that clearly shows that roids enabled him to hit more singles, doubles, triples, & get walks you are standing in a pile of bulls***.

We a nation of intelligent people who know that our collective intelligence is far superior to that of any one person who determines community standards or is member of a smaller state bureaucracy. We are nation of people that know man's hope lies in science & technology & not that of a bureaucrats opinion.

As Dershowitz elluded, judges in ATL & FL love the death penalty. They love it so much they don't want to risk anything to compromise it. Why are you surprised? When you really look at this case under Dershowitz' eyes the conservatives involved in this case could be viewed as a snake with two heads one trying to swallow the other. The one end is PRO-PRO-PRO death penalty the other is PRO-LIFE. The Pro-life end tried to swallow the death penalty end & the death penalty swallowed them in the process. So often conservatives want to look to the bench & blame the liberals but there weren't any liberals here. From what I've read there wasn't a single judge who wrote an opinion in this case that wasn't pro death penalty. If I was the DNC chairman I would use that fact & the congressional vote in congress to drive a wedge between the conservatives in the GOP party. Here's a perfect opportunity to bring the right-to-live vs death penalty debate to the forefront for the 2006 election but instead they are making excuses for their votes. How pathetic it sounds when a Dem essentially says "I didn't want to do it! They bullied me!" Instead they should have said we protect the right-to-life for all Americans include the ones on death row. It's a crying shame when an innocent dies at the hands of the state. We know this happens. We hear it all the time in the news. We have a duty as human beings to spare no effort in determing life or death under all circumstances. Both Terri's & (insert name of last death row inmate cleared).

That's just mean. Yes, I've read the testimony by his ex girl-friend. Yes I believe it's pretty strong evidence against him that he used roids. But roids didn't help him to set the bar on walks to a level that may never been broken. No one on roids has ever come close to producing Barry's OBP or BA as consistently as he has. You can question the HR's but the rest of his numbers are probably in sync with what he would have done roids-free. As for trading Borchy if someone's out there & willing to overpay for him do it. J Borchard ST-05 .212A 14G 33AB 8R 7H 21TB 2D 0 4HR 11RBI Otherwise send him to AAA let him get his numbers up & trade him then. He has no future with the CWS. Hitting 212 in AZ is ridiculous. I'm done dreaming of his potential. He can't hit. He can only bash once in a while.

I think it will cost a lot less for national review board than for deliberation costs in each of the 50 states on these cases. Schiavo is not the first & certainly won't be the last.

How many persons qualified to serve as judges at the time the US Cons was ratified? How many persons are qualified today? Apples & Oranges. Two different worlds. Show me any evidence that indicates even an inkling that the authors believed the legal profession would grow to the size it has today? On top of that did they have an inkling that judges would serve on the bench into their 70's & 80's? Have you read anything on the effects of aging on the mind? There is no wisdom in choosing cases to be decided by those past the age of retirement over those with a decade or two before it.

The Terri Schiavo case has brought to question a much bigger issue. Should the establishment of r-t-d rights remain with the states or be moved to the Fed? http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...nning_for_death We have heard a lot about medical opinion in this case. I've also read the story behind the book Kate's Journey. Mis-diagnosis of PVS happens often enough to were it is a real concern. A study in the UK put it as high as 40%. Maybe Terri's diagnosis was correct. Maybe it wasn't. But for those of you who feel it is conclusive just consider the debate by medical professionals alone over this conclusive decision. Now imagine how many Terri's there might be each year who are in states that are less conclusive. I think the reality of the situation strongly suggests that the courts medical opinion on this matter must represent the finest minds the nation has to offer. That would be the case if r-t-d rights were decided in Federal courts. When I heard there are 30,000 such cases a year I think that's a large enough number to establish a nation review board to oversee these cases. That board would be made up of the leading minds in the fields of diagnosising incapacitated persons. As I said before if you look at the MO statute the USSC upheld in 1990 requiring that r-t-d right be clear & conclusive I do not believe Terri's r-t-d would have been established in MO. Is that fair to her family? The USSC has ruled that no state can deny a r-t-d right. They have left open the right for states to define measures in establishing that right. What good does that do? Does it not make more sense for a national r-t-d review board made up of experts in the field to define those measures for all states? They would make their recommendations to the US Congress & then the US Congress would enact them into law. Everyone could look upon their loved ones with reassurance that in the event their r-t-d right needs to be exercised the finest minds in the land on the subject have defined the rules of procedure. Is that not the most logical approach?

I think that was the best thing to come out of this. I can not remember another case that so clearly defined the separation of powers in our government like this one has. That is what makes it so fascinatingly unique. The world has now witnessed the strength & weaknesses of our system of government. Through it all the respect of the rule of law was maintained. The world witnessed the strength of our system in the acts of the executive & legislative branches but also the weaknesses in our judicial branch. It is easy for us as Americans to say based on our perspectives that is not a weakness or a strength. But to people around the world they will see it differently. I know because I've talked to them about this. A Japanese colleague of mine sent me this e-mail: I can't believe judges in your country can ignore the acts of your legislaturers. He didn't go into the particulars of it having happened twice at the state & federal level but his statement is probably reflective for most around the world. When it applies to life & death it makes it even more emotional. I've spoken on this issue beforehand. In the modern world life-terms for judges is antiquated. It's too much power consoldated in too few individuals in a fast-paced ever changing world. The old argument was that judges needed life sentences so they were not beholden to the people. I never bought into that argument because the very notion of it questions the honor & the integrity of the judge themself. Why should the notion of judges needing to be retained at all levels have any bearing on the honor & integrity of a judge? It shouldn't. They are expected to be the most honorable persons in our society. I personally would feel more comfortable appearing before a judge nearing 50 yrs of age than one nearing 70. I just feel the 50 yr old is more capable of staying in touch with the modern world than the 70 yr old. I think that's important when it comes to the bench.

She is down to one thread: The FLDCFS appeal. The USSC has refused to hear the case. http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTEwdnZjMjFh...gtY3Nz/s/123145

Goodness manifests itself in one's sacrifice for others. Selfishness diminshes our goodness. Update: There are only 2 threads remaining to Terri's life. The Schindler's appeal before the USSC & the FLDCFS appeal before the FL appelate courts. Schindler's appeal has been backed by a friend of the court brief from DeLay representing the US Congress essentially explaining that the Fed justices did not take into consideration the true intent of Schiavo's Law in deciding the appeal. The FLDCFS appeal is again with the intention to take Terri into custody & make her a ward of the state on the basis they have met the statuatory requirement to do so in the state of FL.

It is completely pointless for me to respond to each individual post that is written as if we were living in the dark ages with respect to what is on the horizon in the near future. If you don't know what nanotech is & you've never read a book in it then why bother posting obnoxious crap that makes you look clueless to any one who has? Go to sciencedaily.com or better yet the library check out a few books & then come back & say something intelliigent like you know what you're talking about. It's so blatantly obvious that some of you are completely clueless on the historical progression of science in all fields in relation to generational growth of computer science in both hardware & software. Unless you have that you will remain in the dark ages. http://www.nanotech-now.com/basics.htm - It's a good place to start. As for mapping the human brain that R&D is extensive & on-going. It's likely to take as long as it did to map the human genome but it will happen. Suppose the brain where like a map of Texas. For any given person you don't know where Houston is but once you find Houston you can find Dallas, San Antonio, Waco, Austin, etc. That's the basis of the R&D. These cities represent functions. Even though they might be in slightly different areas of the brain per individual there relation to one another remain the same. Just as cities vary in size so to the areas in the brain responsible for each function. The bigger cities so to speak are easier to find. They represent the keys to mapping the lower functions. Again you can learn more about this by visiting sciencedaily.com or even better checking out books at your local library. I feel like a commercial for the science channel :rolly

Have any of you read any books by futurists? I have. The potential for AI nanotech is limitless. 1- Viritual Worlds: See the Matrix. Live in the Matrix. Nanotech AI interfaces will get us there some time in the next 20 yrs. In is world you whole body is the controller & your thoughts are the special functions. 2- Memory augmentation & emulation. If you lose this portion of your brain don't sweat it. As long as enough people who know you stick around they can fill in the blanks. Everyone will have the chance to own a photograpic memory that will be as easy to use as today's seach engine. Expect these NAI interfaces in the next 20 yrs as well. 3-Taste augmentation & emulation. If you lose this portion of your brain again don't sweat it. People who know you can fill in the blanks. What they don't know science can choose for you randomly or you can choose on your on. Newly acquired tastes will be impossible. That's a natural God given thing. Once that capacity is lost it can't be restored. Your emotions are linked to these so any non-natural tastes might feel state to you. 4-Motor functions. If you lose this portion don't sweat it at all. These are the most generalized functions in the brain. NAI interfaces will start creeping up on us in this area in as early as 10 yrs. Think of all the spinal cord injury patients this will help. This won't just be available for the brain but the spinal cord itself. Big promise here. Simply put in the next 20 yrs living wills might mean a whole lot more to the poor than the rich. You're going to need $ to pay for all this. Maybe medicare will evolve to give the poor a Matrix rich life

Scarborough brings up a good point that maybe which should debate. Should we consider a person who's only dependancy is a feeding & hydration tube on life support? The need for these tubes is predicated on the basis she is to a greater extent paralyzed. I have known people in my life who have been paralyzed & did require feeding tubes for several yrs before rehab brought back there ability to chew. I believe Terri is brain damaged to an extent that she has lost some degree of cognizant function & to a larger degree motor function. That's evident in her paralysis. But no one on this planet can say with certainty that a specific area of the brain controls a certain motor function or cognizant function. We don't possess that knowledge. We possess knowledge of generalizations. But all brains are unique. From what I know our general knowledge of the brain is that it is resilient in that it will compensate for damages. Exactly how it does that or to what extent it does that we don't know. In the year 2005 we still don't know how our brain formulates words or drives us to speak & think. We have a general sense of what area of the brain controls that but we don't know anything for sure. Most brain surgery today deals strictly with the physical nature of the brain. It's not dealing with restoring brain functions but rather obvious brain impairments. We use tech to see that which is threatening & we attempt to correct it.

Based on what I know, Yes & No. It's really a mercy factor based on a person's goodness. Terri is personified as an angelic person right now with emblemished goodness. That drives the mercy factor thru the roof. That would apply to both euthanasia & r-t-d. The greater the assumption of goodness in the person the greater the mercy factor. With abortion there is no person. There is an unborn. There is no unique personhood when it comes to the mercy factor. So the mercy factor is split. There are those Christians who can't see goodness in something as general as unborn children. There are those Christians who see even greater goodness in unborn children. That's why even though there is a split those who see the goodness are far more zealous than those who don't. The death-penalty without question has the lowest mercy factor. Few Christians can see the goodness in these persons. The Vatican basically shows unconditional goodness for all persons & unborn regardless of circumstances. That's a hard thing for the average Christian. There are those who have to search for goodness here. I'm against the d-p because I find the goodness in the innocent. The process at which someone faces the d-p is not infailable. It's wrought with error. I read reports about d-p inmates being cleared all the time. The goodness of the wrongfully accused is what drives me against the d-p.

I believe that an extensive review of the facts by the court would include that. Especially given the claims that Michael may have had involvement. Since that is what the parents appeals seek I think that rules them out. Either that or the parents believe they had no involvement in that so they have no sense of that fear. LCR, Bush is a moderate conservative. That means he can ride the fence politically pro-death on one side, pro-life on the other. As for Chrstians, heaven is the final destination & when you reach it you reside there for all eternity. Our time on Earth is temporal & therefore very rare. You should cheerish every moment. Scarborough brings up a good point. Why did FLDCFS go to Greer & ask him to allow them to enforce the statute? The executive branch does not have to ask the judiciary to enforce a statute. After enforcing the statute someone can challenge it in the courts but they can't prevent the enforcement of it. What I'm thinking is that they asked Greer because Terri's established r-t-d trumps the statute. Either that or Gov Bush is trying to exhaust every means prior to enforcing the statute on his own or the FLDCFS lawyers are clueless.

Well you can argue another angle that would make her life more important than the money. If Michael is the cause of the initital injury (I agree it's a BIG IF) would he not fear Terri regaining consciousness? The question was posed to Bobby Schindler last night as to whether he will pursue a wrongful death suit? He seemed very open to that possibility. I think most of us would agree fear of the death penalty is going to be make the money seem insignificant. All of his actions up to the time he filed for her r-t-d would fit that picture. He was in total control of her life. What did he have to fear? He had used up most of the settlement $ up to that time. I'm not saying this is plausible. I'm just offering it as an explanation why the money might be insignificant. Now money earned after her death off book & movie rights is entirely different.

SS, this is why the case is so complex. For every negative thing reported about Michael there is probably a positive as well. I think putting all that aside it comes down to one question: did Michael do everything in his power to improve Terri's condition? That means exhausting every possibililty within his grasp to improve her life? We have court affidavits by care workers, parents, other family, friends, & several doctors that believe the answer is no. That right there casts the most doubt on Michael's motive. Ask the next question. Let's say Michael had Terri's best interests at heart & was truthful in determing her right-to-die wishes. Why then did he deny her rehab & therapy for so many years? Why did he wait until after he became engaged to file a motion for her right to die? Would you agree that it at least casts doubt on his motives? Then there's the money. There might not be any left now after court costs but what was left at the time he filed his first motion to remove the tubes? Was Terri's case already reaching celeb status at that time? What are the book & movie rights worth now? Who owns those rights? This case is known world-wide now. Latest update: The latest bill on the FL Senate has been defeated. Two in one day. As reported today under emergency protective services of vulnerable adults FLDCFS has the statuatory power to take Terri into protective custody & make her a ward of the state. FL law allows them to do that. Apparently they feel they have enough evidence to meet that statute. I believe if they do this Greer's decision can not prevent it. Michael would have to file a new motion suing the state on the basis that Terri's r-t-d rights have been violated. It's anybody's guess where that will lead. Gov Bush has to weigh the FL court of opinion before doing this. He also needs to make sure it's iron-clad to get what he wants: the tubes re-inserted. That's probably why he hasn't done it yet. Terri has taken a turn for the worse. Time is running out for Gov Bush to act.

There are actually 4 threads remaining to Terri's life: 1- The USSC They could decide to take on the case based on the Schiavo Law. If they do so it would increase Terri's chances because they see a means to re-insert the tubes. 2 - Judge Greer It is possible the sworn testimony of the neurologist from the Mayo clinic could cause him to re-evaluate his decision. That would re-insert the tubes. 3 - Florida Appeals Court Judge Greer earlier adjoined an argument by FLDCFS to take Terri into protective custody based on new evidence. So the FLDCFS is appealing to the FL court of appeals. Again if they see reason they could re-examine the facts of the case. That would re-insert the tubes. 4 - Executive order by Gov Bush. I don't know the particulars. I'm guessing this is a last ditch effort to buy time that would be very temporary.

Did you see Carlos? Damn! Did he look great or what? It's going to be so much fun watching him battle the Flubbies. I think I might be finding my way to the beer garden this year. I'll definitely make the trip up to Miller Park. Kenny why? why? why? You traded my favorite young player on the Sox! I just hope Pods & Vizc make keep it close in the trade score card.

Not only that, but how many r-t-l supporters are likely to visit CNN to begin with? http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

MSNBC: The FL Senate rejected a bill that would force the tubes be put back in place. I'm assuming this is the bill requiring r-t-d be in writing. Earlier Gov Bush alleged earlier that the DCFS found reason to believe that Terri may have been mis-diagnosed. Instead of being in a PVS she might be in a state of minimal consciousness. That's a step above PVS. That narrows it down to the USSC as her parent's only hope. Will the new Schiavo Law make the difference? Those supporting Terri's r-t-l are praying it does in time. http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

It says a lot about your character to be posting jokes in a thread about the tragic death of a little girl at the hands of a despicable sub-human monster.