JUGGERNAUT

The law being debated in FL won't save Terri's life but it will make it much harder for a guardian to retain guardianship while denying rehab & other options that could improve the person's quality of life. I'm in favor of that. I believe the r-t-d is inextricably linked with a state in which death is imminent or pain & suffering is intolerable. As such it's vitally important that state courts oversee the care of incapacitated persons such that there is greater weight placed upon a prognosis for life than death.

What's on trial here is the credibility of America's courts: Plain simple facts: -Judge Greer has ruled that Terri expressed a r-t-d in her present state & that Michael is her guardian. -The Fed courts have declined to interfere with that ruling. That r-t-d is protected by the USSC's ruling in 1990. -The matter is before the USSC for the 3rd time but could rule on it because of Schiavo's Law. Pending actions: Gov Bush is hopeful he will sign a FL law today that will remove Michael as the guardian & place Terri in protective custody with FLDCFS. Another law pending in FL will require that r-t-d be expressed in writing. This is sure to be ruled unconstitutional. The battle is over. Terri's r-t-d is protected by the USSC's 1990 ruling & Greer's ruling as identified that r-t-d. Protective custody will not change that. The court upheld MO's clear & conclusive r-t-d affirmation in that case, but a requirement that it be in writing is sure to be unreasonable. The rule of law is more important than Terri's life. As sad as that sounds it's reality. Michael may be innocent or he may be a murder. Greer may be wrong or he may be right. Our judical system is no infailable. At best we hope it get's right more than it get's it wrong. In the same context I feel Greer did not do enough towards his decision. He has been criticized for not getting off his ass & going to visit Terri in person. If he had just done that then he could have spared us all of this tragedy. There he could have allowed the Schindler's medical expert to make his most convincing case & given M Schiavo's medical expert the same opportunity. Having witnessed her reaction first hand no one could claim they didn't have an opportunity to convince Greer. In the spirit of the clear & conclusive statute of MO I do not think it violates privacy rights to require that the judge presiding the decision appear before the incapacitated person & witness her reactions first hand. I would hope that all states look at this in legislating their procedures governing r-t-d laws. If you believe all the testimony supporting Terri's r-t-l desire is stronger than Greer's decision then her stay of execution rests in the hands of the USSC. That's her only hope in her passing hours.

Michael probably represents the least likely person in the state to give her drops of water. Based on the care givers sworn testimony I'm not sure if he's a comfort to Terri at all. That might be even worse than dying alone. http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/cnna.dershowitz/ Alan's big take is he continually draws the comparison of Schiavo's rtd vs dp cases. (right-to-die, death-penalty). If this were a d-p case the conservatives would be backing state rights & the liberals would be fighting for the life. He says that's the problem the Schindler's are facing. Alan believes the 11th Ct Court is more concerned with the impact their ruling could have on d-p cases than Schiavo. He considers it a pro d-p court. He says the Schiavo Law might cause the USSC to take a look. A Law written specifically for this women & this case is always of interest to the court. If he were to write a new FL law he would side with the parents. He prefers a clear & conclusive standard & doesn't believe the word of a few people is sufficent. It is better to err on the side of life.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/23/Citrus/C...olice_he_.shtml In 1991 after being arrested for exposing & fondling a 5-yr-old girl, Couey told police he knew he had a problem with controlling his sexual attraction for young children but hadn't sought medical help for it. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=...id=161052&rfi=6 For someone who knew he had a problem there is no excuse for his failure to register on FL's sexual offender directory. He broke the law in doing so. IMO, he's just a meniacle monster who preys on kids. I do think this case is going to spear-head a movement for a national registry of sex offenders. I was surprised to see the article above list all the names of the persons on that local registry. If they can do that then there's no reason not to have a national registry. I was first against it because of the stories where in some states pissing on tree would make you a sex offender. But I think the national registry can be designed to weed out such trivial nonsense. I'm in favor of it now.

It was a good thing you got to see her one more time before she passed away. My family's never had to face this decision. So I really don't know what it feels like to confront it.

As reported on MSNBC Couey appears to be playing the mental health card. He says he's sick & prison won't help. He needs to be institutionalize. I have no sympathy for this man. He's had plenty of time in between arrests to seek help. He could have played that card long ago. Jessica's alive today if he had. I'm against the death penalty but this pc of s*** challenges my resolve on that issue. Every aspect of his life should be probed & researched so that his life can be used to learn more about the way these monsters think. His life represents nothing more than a tool for us to help prevent this from happening in the future. That's my opinion any way.

That's good to hear. Were there guards present at the time?

Based on my limited experience with school boards they do oversee construction projects at schools. I do not claim to know whether the florida district does. But I would hope that if the board holds the purse strings of the project they would have some control over the management of it. What I find to be the most tragic part of this story is that Jessica would most likely be alive today if some people took the hiring of repeated sex offenders a little more seriously in her district. I would think it's common sense to do background checks on people working on school grounds. Especially in light of FL apparent recent history with sex offenders.

You need professional help. You are stalking me. I am trying to get away from you. I have repeatedly asked you to put me on ignore. A person who feels a need to be the way you are is not stable. Every reply to my post from you is personal. That's not normal. You are concerned more with s***ting on my posts then the subject matter of the thread. That's not normal. I don't enjoy s***ting on other's posts or stalking people like you do. I prefer to comment on what they write & keep it impersonal. I am not prone to call someone a liar. I will simply point out they are mistaken. That's evident in the overwhelming majority of my posts. That's called being courteous, polite, & kind to others. Why don't you take the time to read your posts. Try to look at them impartially. They are dripping with anger as if they were written by a disturbed mind. It would be best for both of us if you were to calm down & just put me on your ignore list even for a few days. Now I asked that out of a desire to be considerate of you. You leave me no choice with your stalking. Since you choose not to ignore me I am left with no choice but to ignore you.

You need professional help. The only part my post got wrong was the capacity he worked at in the school. That's not bs. That's a mistake. If I were running the new agency that created the link I would have removed it by now. A counselor can help you with your need to be they way you are.

I posted that over 13 hours ago based on a Yahoo news link. I should have pasted the link at the time. I'm not sure if it's still there. But honestly I hope you take the time & look at how petty you're being. Did I dispute your post? No. Did I claim that mine was w/out error? No. Did I claim my source was infaliable? No. Did I admit they & I in that respect made a mistake? Yes. So feeling the need to call someone a liar after that doesn't actually paint a picture of decent human being on your part. Regardless I am curious as to the source so I am looking for it.

If any one has a link supporting the belief that parents & family are allowed bedside during this ordeal please post it. I've not been able to find it. The parents continue to report on her state of decline so one can infer they are allowed into her room. But whether they allowed bedside to where Terri can see or hear them is something entirely different. Intelligence would tell you Terri has limited sense recognition if any at all. That means unless you are allowed close enough to where she can feel your presence it's as if your not there at all.

I reported what I read in the link. Nothing more. It was the first report I found. I didn't claim it to be the gospel truth or that it was 100% accurate. You're inability to discern the difference between an error & a lie doesn't require me to include a disclaimer attesting to the possible inaccuracy from the report. But in an effort to help you overcome your apparent mental difficulties I will from now on preface my posts referring to links of information with "If this is true".

Go bother someone else today I'm tired of being stalked by someone like you. Put me on your ignore list.

A person like you must be a F'g nightmare to live with. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that when the story first broke the news media saw contract & school & assumed teacher? I reported what they reported. When it comes to the media no one but a F'g moron would assume that's the Gospel truth on the matter. The word retraction exists because errors are expected. Now you can argue whether they should have held the story back & waiting or went forward with it. IMHO they did the right thing. It was more important to point out he was working at the school then waiting to check in what capacity. Seriously I don't have time to debate this insignificant bulls*** today from vindictive & mallicious persons dripping with the need to spite others like yourself. Put me on your ignore list. In my opinion a person who gets personal satisfication out of calling people liars because SOME of they might refer to a link that is not 100% factually correct because of the timeliness of the report is both petty, & a classless human being. Apparently no one ever taught you the phrase "to error is human, to forgive is divine."

That is not the way it was reported last night. They reported him having a contract teacher role but did say he was specifically a teacher. Obviously they jumped the gun. I simply reported what was reported at the time. It does not surprise me that they would jump to that conclusion. Unlike some people I'm a very forgiving person & accept humans to be failable. What probably happened is that when the story first broke the news media read contract & school & assumed a teaching role. As for it being COMPLETE BULLs*** as one purports that's up to the trained mind to decide. The only error was he did not serve in a teaching role. Everything else was on par. He was on contract & had easy access to students in the school. The district is still to blame for not running an extensive background check on any one working at the school including those who are there on contract. Do I think it's a greivous error? No. It does not change the ramifications of the case or what the district should have done. It's an insignificant error.

No one is allowed near the bedside. Go look it up.

I'll have to go look at your BULLs*** in that thread & dissprove it like I do every other thread because you F'g can't read! But you're action of posting a comment in this thread pertaining to your opinion in that thread is one of I would associate with a person I would consider an obnoxious piece of garbage in my opinion with a vindictive & mallicious nature. There's no f***ing logical reason one would do it outside of spite. Now I'll go look at the BULLs*** you wrote there & go find evidence to prove you wrong again. Do yourself a favor & save my time. Put me on your ignore list.

Terri is dying. With the doubt cast on this case she may be feeling the effects of the starvation despite the fact she is heavily medicated. A person who is shut out from her family & friends & can only see guards around her is feeling abandonment. Not humiliation.

Typical bulls*** by the typical people who feel a need to post it :rolly I said both FOX & MSNBC. Perhaps MSNBC is not a reputable source either for you. FOX - is covering this from the FL perpsective MSNBC - is focusing much more on the Vatican perspective

The idea of school funding moving from the local level to the national level is intriguing but likely to face greater opposition than the idea of doing away with income taxes & creating a value-added national sales tax. Those school boards are pretty powerful & most state budgets for education are pretty big (billions). I don't see the people holding those purse strings giving them up easily. I think Pres Bush's plan was more closely aligned with moderate thinking. Offer the federal funds in exchange for federal guidelines & standards. That gives the local boards the power to change or remain as is. A No Child Left Behind II could open the door to addressing the concerns you've raised. Federal funds in exchange for hiring teachers passing a national standard. This would help in the Jessica Lunsford case were Couhey was able to teach in her district. Couhey was arrested 26 times before that contract hiring. A Federal standard would undoubtedly include an extensive background check. So from a child safety & education perspective this could really help. The unions are likely to sqwauk but the more they resist change the more they are becoming marginalized by contract teachers. Likewise federal funds could be offered to encourage peer & group guidance counseling which I agree would probably offer the best help to address these disturbed kids. Where the money would come from for these funds? Let's just get it done. Pass the national value-added sales tax. I'm not one to usually argue for increased taxes but for America to remain competitive in the 21st century it's obvious it needs to evole from an income tax system to a sales/transaction system. Processing costs alone for the income tax system are estimated at $126 billion dollars a year! That includes the govt, corporate, & individual costs. A sales/transation based system would drop that cost dramatically. That's another $100 billion dollars flowing into the economy. Education is usually an easy sale. This would also represent somewhat of a compromise to the income tax cuts under Bush. Initially we are not talking a lot of money. A few billion would help the schools greatly. Linking that $ to NCLB II would prevent abuse of the $ at the local level. I'd be willing to bet that simply introducing this tax on just SEC transactions would reap the few billion needed. If the boards are reluctant to accept the money I see no reason with this account running a surplus. As long as Congress keeps it's hands off the surplus it's generally a good idea for NCLB to always be in the black.

Something I want you all to think about when deciding your living wills: I no longer believe right to die rights belong in the states. It has nothing to do with my being right leaning moderate & everything having to do with the future of the world & our nation. It's a well known fact that in many areas of medical science & tech that the world is progressing faster than America. The list of procedures not approved in the USA but available around the world is growing faster every year. Most of the nations of the world do not have the medical beuracracy the US has. As long as the right to die rights belong in the hands of the state your fate resides in the hands of your surviving proxy & the state. If you have no surviving proxy & your living will leaves the state any room to assume your right to die your fate will most likely rest in the court's appointed medical experts in your state. That's the key here. They would have to reside in your state. If the medical experts are appointed at the Federal level that increases the pool of experts that would weigh in on the decision. The best in the nation could be represented. Which makes more logical sense to you? Our living will is going to clearly choose right to life. The only exception being intolerable pain & suffering. I recommend you to do the same.

http://www.foley.com/publications/pub_detail.aspx?pubid=1759 Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Department of Health, 497 U.S. 261 (1990) USSC assumed the US Cons grants a competent person a cons protected right to refuse lifesaving hydration & nutrition, but it held that it was not unconstitutional for MO to direct a procedural safeguard related to surrogates' decisions. In the case of MO that safeguard is clear & convincing evidence of an incompetent's wishes for the withdrawal of treatement. When you look at the particulars of this case & compare it to the Cruzan case Terri's life would not be in question in the state of MO. The state judiciary would have ruled that Michael's testimony does not constitute clear & convincing evidence. Especially in light of it being contested by the parents. That's the real tragedy here. Terri's life would have followed a completely different course in MO than in FL. In MO the Schindler's most likely would have secured guardianship rights from Michael & Terri would have begun rehabilitation more than 10 yrs ago. Michael most likely would not have even had the opportunity to file a motion to have her tubes removed. Terri's case is now before the USSC. The USSC has a history of controversial decisions that amount to legislative action from the bench. The most noteable case being Roe v Wade. That case overturned all lower courts decisions. The USSC has repeatedly rejected appeals on the Schiavo case but that was before the new congressional law passed. The most recent appeals were filed under the sections defined in that law. Outside of the USSC the FL legislature could pass a law which includes the MO safeguard. Whether such a law would be up to par with the FL Cons is in doubt but the passage of the law could put the tube back in. If under any circumstance Schiavo's tube is reinstated most experts believe it will be left in place for several years as the case comes under extensive review.

Schiavo's Law - what we have learned in the past 2 days is that those who were against this law grossly overstated it's intent & use. All this law really does is provide persons in Terri's state the same rights that death row inmates have. The key being that there is must be at least 1 convincing argument as to why a person's rights to due process were violated & why the case deserves an extensive review. That's it. Hardly a tool for the US Congress to control the tubes so to speak. Ultimately the fault lies with the FL legislature & Gov Bush. He should have steered the legislature towards changing the guardianship laws before the case came before Greer. Whether Michael is evil or good he did follow the letter of the law & was smart to defer Terri's right to die to the judge. As far as the state of FL was concerned w/out a legislative action Greer was the final say on Terri's life. What is somewhat overlooked by the media is that following that decision Michael's side has not really been involved. This is all about Greer's decision & the Schindlers desire to overturn it. If Michael were to suddenly change his mind & seek Terri's right-to-live I don't think that it would change anything. There just isn't enough time. He would have to file a motion stating new evidence has come to his attention believing that Terri would have choosen to life. But that extraordinary reversal would not move quickly through the courts. FL's legislature needed to act before Greer assumed that role & it didn't. You can blame Michael for not fighting for Terri's right to live in light of all the doubt being talked about but once Greer assumed his role in this Michael's part ended. His side was simply prepared to file an appeal in the event Greer's decision was overturned or Schiavo's Law had led to an extensive review of the case. They may still act. There is the possibility of the Schindlers pursuing a wrongful death suit in this case. With all the sworn testimony that has been filed to cast doubt that alone will lead to an extensive review of the case. If the FL legislature were to strip Michael of his guardianship rights with a change in the law that would serve as a symbolic gesture of were the state of FL stands on that doubt. Those rights might be worth millions. In life & in death Terri is & will be considered a celebrity. Even without a wrongful death suit the book & movie rights to her story will be worth millions. I would expect Michael to fight hard to retain those rights.

As this case continues to play out it's unwinding more & more like a Hollywood tragedy & you have to start asking where we all these people since Aug, 2004? The news media hasn't just made Terri Schiavo the top story. They've made it the biggest story since the Gulf War. On both FOX & MSNBC it's nearly all Terri all the time. A big part of that is because the Catholic Church & the Vatican have been so focused on this case & with the Pope's own health ailing that intensifies the coverage. The net effect of all this is that the nation is learning a lot about the dissenting opinion in this case: - a large number of PVS cases are usually misdiagnosed - PET scans short of exploratory surgery are the best means to diagnose - testimony by care givers claiming Michael wanted her to die before he even filed a motion to remove the tubes, - questions surrounded her bulima The list goes on & on & on. The media is certainly doing it's job of raising the spectrum on reasonable doubt in this case. The book Kate's Journey & the author is touring the news ckt because she was a PVS that made it back. She says they misdiagnosed her case early on to such a degree that she was feeling pain during the surgery for her feeding tubes. She was not put under beforehand. Her husband was told there was no hope & he shouldn't bother with rehabilitation but her husband felt her right to live was strong & he went ahead with it. She got better & over 9 yrs she made her way back. When all of this comes to your attention you can't help think about your own sister in this case. He makes your heart cry out for Terri & it creates a serious cloud of doubt over Michael. But be that as it may Terri's life is not more important than the rule of law. As a right leaning social moderate my mind has come to grips with my heart that Terri is going to die because the efforts of the people fighting for her right-to-live have done to little to late. Mainly the FL legislature & Gov Bush.