witesoxfan

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) The argument can also be made that Biggio being left out HURTS Frank's chances... in that it shows how serious they are about getting a message sent about the entire era. A pal of mine was just saying that the Biggio thing terrifies him about Frank's prospects (b/c Craig is not some predictable roider name that should have been punished). And if you want to keep it to sluggers, also consider Piazza. Greatest hitting catcher ever? Not a first balloter. This happened sans proof. Frank is also a sans-proof guy. Meanwhile Frank has his years of DHing (likely not an issue on its own) and now an era's stigma to battle. Biggio stuck around way too long. His last two years were simply not that good.

QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) 83-85 wins does not get them into the playoffs. It puts them in ".500 purgatory". There was a baseball simulation that was run with 30 completely average teams equal in every way, and it was run like 1000 times. In most of those simulations, one or two teams won 92 games and one or two lost 92 games. This is done because of injuries and players having outlier years. I think you understand my point here. My secondary point is that this isn't a simulation. I feel that the Tigers are more talented, but to get to the Tigers talent level this offseason, they would had to have committed $55-60 million per year over the next 5 years, as opposed to the $20 million they are instead committing with Keppinger and Peavy. On top of that, they would have had to gut any depth that they've built up in the minor league system. Neither are very smart, and the Sox have done enough to set themselves up to perform well this year while looking towards the future. With Viciedo improving to an .800+ OPS, Beckham getting to .750, Alexei getting above .700, Flowers putting up .750+, Dunn and Konerko staying healthy, Rios remaining the same, yada yada yada...best case scenario, this is a playoff team with about 95 wins. Worst case I see is , at the very most, 90 losses, but probably a lot closer to 83-85 loss team in a bad case scenario. Bottomline, they have the best and most economical team on the field right now that is possible.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:45 PM) I don't think it's likely this team contends in 2013. Maybe the idea is to deal guys like Peavy, Konerko, and Rios at the trade deadline. Hahn and the Sox are in a tough spot over the next couple of years. Not sure about dealing guys at the deadline, because I think they'll be in the race at the deadline, but I don't disagree overall.

QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) If I understand what you guys are saying, the Sox' choices are to 1) add pieces to their current nucleus (not "impact players"), try to stay competitive, and be "fiscally responsible" while trying to build through the draft; or 2) "blow the team up" and rebuild. (Death is NOT an option!) I don't know what to say...IMO, both options SUCK! Maybe current ownership will cash in their chips, and sell the team to a "Mark Cuban" or a "Mikhial Prokhorov" type who's ego (and wallet) wouldn't settle for mediocrity. No, those are the Marty's optimal choices. The Sox best option is to sit back and let it ride. They'll be competitive this year, with a break here or there will improve as a team, and they may be able to go out and trade for someone big at or before the deadline. I think they're about an 83-85 win team, but we'll see. It's better than spending frivolously or selling everything off.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:28 PM) They shouldn't be in the middle. They should have either added $25-$30M to the 2013 payroll or cut payroll setting up for 2014 and beyond. The only legitimate addition they could have made to this team was Josh Hamilton, and that is a gorilla sized risk you are taking on by adding him. Beyond that, any other addition is a marginal improvement, if that. They made a better offer to Eric Chavez but he took money out west instead. They improved 3B. The only other way they can add payroll is to trade or make irrational and impatient free agent signings, and given the state of the organization, neither of those are optimal at this point. I think Hahn is still testing the waters, but he will go into Spring Training with this team if that is what is necessary. I'd eat crow then, but I think that's a situation we're faced with. Cutting payroll in 2013 to set up for 2014 beyond is incredibly short-sighted. If you WERE to cut payroll in 2013, it would be for 2016 and beyond because you have to assume atleast 3 years of rebuilding if you slash and tear. They are putting the best product that they can on the field.

These percentages tell me that Bonds and Clemens get in eventually. Personally, this is more of an indictment on Sammy Sosa. 12.5% for a guy who never test positive and never admitted to it? Won an MVP, multiple All-Star appearances, 600+ home runs, only guy to hit 60+ homers in 3 seasons. There are about 1 million red flags, and apparently the BBWAA has taken those quite seriously and they have essentially stated that, without steroids, Sosa is nowhere near a Hall of Famer.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) Sure it is. The Sox problem is a fickel fan base, not talent evaluation. So ss2k said it was the fan's fault that those trades were made?

QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) Of course we'd rather have Tank at this stage of their careers, except that Tank will NEVER be as good defensively as Torii, even at Torii's current age. And it's certainly possible that, in the future, Viciedo puts up numbers that make Hunter's pale in comparison while also being fairly competent defensively.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:17 PM) I don't think the Sox fans being fickel should have anything to do with the team the front office fields. If it does, that just shows you the problem lies with ownership. The entire situation is a giant Catch-22. The only thing the front office can do from this point forward, and from every point forward after that, is to put the best product on the field they can while also taking into consideration the future of the organization. That's what they do.

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Oh I see its the fans fault theat management traded away good, inexpensive, young talent for Nick Swisher and Edwin Jackson That isn't even close to what was said.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) How many times have we heard KW say, can't spend a dollar when you only have 50 cents? About once.

If nothing else, I am going to attempt to find a list and send an email to all 500+ writers in the BBWAA to plead Frank's case. There will be no one more deserving in that entire class than Frank Thomas of going into the Hall of Fame.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) Especially for a team of our means. The way to get that cost-controlled talent and build a really strong team is to invest in scouting, amateur draft, and international free agents. These can be done for the most part while salvaging a competitive roster. Unfortunately the Sox neglected investment in these areas for years. Only until relatively recently can we see their philosophy slowly turning around. And the new CBA helps us in this area too, I would say. The one benefit of blowing up the team in the past was that you could essentially spend a limitless amount of amateur players. Both of those have been tightened up to the point where it is now incredibly inefficient to spend beyond the pre-determined limits. I think, going into the future, you will see fewer and fewer teams blow up like they have in the past because of these restrictions, which is a very good thing.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) So how can a person commit the act of rape if they are not sociopaths? I would say sociopath is a good term to use. so·ci·o·path noun, Psychiatry. a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

There are a multitude of reasons why you don't tear the team completely apart and like 1, maybe 2 reasons why you should (not having to worry because they're going to suck, and draft pick). There's no guarantee of success, the entire regime will end up changing again, and then you lose the majority of the young person fandom. Blowing up is just a terrible, terrible idea.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) I'm totally ok with name, the colors, the logo. Sharing "history" just gets my panties in a bundle, and i dont have any! You cant just "leave" history behind. History is linear. you cant have a history that pre-dates your existence! If I change my name, someone cant change their name to my old name and be magically married ot my wife and have claim over my children. Or can they?

Biggio Martinez McGwire Piazza Raines Schilling Trammell

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) As we all know, he had a little help. I highly doubt Konerko goes that route. I know. It was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

To play Devil's Advocate here, if Paul Konerko hits like the did the last 4 months of last year, then he needs to be moved out of the cleanup spot. .258/.329/.409/.738 over the last 4 months That argument, FWIW, is as logical and reasonable as moving Dunn out of the 3 spot is.

I honestly don't understand the idea that Dunn struggled in June and July. He wasn't his typical .850 OPS self, but he put up OPS's of .770 and .788. Compared to the league average 3 hitter (.800 OPS, ironically enough), they really aren't that bad. His job is to hit home runs and get on base, and he did part of that job really well with 15 home runs in those two months. The sub-.700 OPS, regardless of injury, I will agree is completely unacceptable. If he is hurt to the point where it is affecting his play on the field that much, then he needs to sit out to let the injury heal.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:22 AM) I really hope this post was made in jest. Paulie only has a slim shot at 500 homers, forget 600. He's also never hit over .313 in a season, how the hell is he gonna improve .087 on his average in his late 30's? Bonds did it.

That was the exactly article I was thinking of, I just had it pidgeonholed as Gonzalez opposed to Upton for some reason.

He was looking at Viciedo

And in his White Sox career, he had the worst season of all time with one of the worst managers in White Sox history (noting that 2009-10 Ozzie was horrendous). You are including an anamoly in those numbers. I'm walking away from this. I know how you feel about Dunn. I think it's very wrong.

QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:36 AM) To change the subject a bit, wouldn't Jon Rauch and/or Matt Capps be good, affordable "gets" for the Sox' bullpen? Neither are very good. Unless it were on a minor league deal, it wouldn't be worth it. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:38 AM) I can see past it, but 2011 was brutal and his OBP was .305 the last 4 months of 2012 with an OPS below .750 despite leading the league in walks. Seems the one looking past something is you. That's not even counting Dunn being a base clogger and if he's not homering, chances are if he reaches, he's on first base. And getting on base is still extending the inning, even if he is "clogging" the bases. I'd rather have that than Mark Kotsay. Beyond that, his OBP was .351 and his OPS .856 through July 31st. He really only struggled in August and September. I can cherry pick statistics too.