witesoxfan

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:30 AM) Speaking of former Twins relievers, what about Fuentes for a third (or second if Sale is a starter) lefty in the bullpen? I think Fuentes is going to cost quite a bit still too, as someone will pay him to be their primary left handed reliever. I don't think the Sox should show interest because he's not going to get enough burn to be worth the contract.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 11:49 PM) This team doesn't need any more Royals. I think Greinke would be OK

I don't understand where this thought that the Rays are going to be interested in Quentin is coming from, and I don't know why people have a fascination for Matt Garza. He is a good but not great starting pitcher. The Rays are looking for players who are under team control for quite a few years. While Viciedo fits that role, Quentin does not and could legitimately end up spending only one year with the Rays. That doesn't seem like a good investment, does it? I think people can forget about the complex scenarios where the White Sox make 4 more trades; I think I might honestly be surprised if the White Sox make 1 more trade at this point. I think they'll want to, but they need to get a return that they deem viable, and I don't see that happening with any of their guys.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:59 PM) Crain had a good year in 2010 but when I was in Minneapolis, Twins fans held him in the same regard Scott Linebrink was held during his time in Chicago. I actually got that feeling out of a lot of them about Guerrier.

I would assume anywhere between $3-5 mill a year, both probably over 2 years (though I could see Guerrier getting 3, though I think the 3rd year would be a mistake).

QUOTE (Shamrock4Life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:04 PM) Maybe Herm got is diagnosed yet the Sox still felt they had a better shot at the division with Manny than without him. The report just says the Dodgers were unaware. Well if the Dodgers were unaware, that would make the White Sox unaware too because they would have had no other reason to believe he had a groin injury.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) Just revisited the thread and saw my Buehrle/Rasmus comments stirred up a few responses. I've read what was said. Doesn't change my point of view. In my book, "can't miss outfield prospects" who strike out in 30% of their MLB at-bats are more of a commodity than proven left-handed starters with career sub-4 ERAs (in the AL no less) who can throw 200 innings a year. You don't like it? Fire me when I become GM. If you are holding costs and service time equal, sure, I can understand the reasoning. But Rasmus is under control for another 4-5 years, while Buehrle is under control for 1. Here I think there are 3 points that we can agree on 1) from a pure value standpoint, Colby Rasmus is more valuable than Mark Buehrle 2) Mark Buehrle has a lot of added intangible value to White Sox fans because he's spent his career here 3) This trade isn't going to happen, so it's basically an irrelevant discussion

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:29 PM) Fine, my fault. I shouldn't have said b****. But my point remains the same. I get sick of these athletes wives. It's not like he's making chump change. Besides that, if she's comfortable in Philly, I guarantee you he is going to be comfortable (and you can take that as innocently or provocatively as you like, because it's going to be true either way)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 01:26 PM) If they got the right package I'm sure they would. I don't know who could offer it to them though. Maybe Cleveland, if they were open on Santana. And Cleveland has no point in dealing Santana. I'm sure if the Sox wanted to totally sabotage their minor league system, the Royals might accept, but even then I doubt that. For the Sox to get Greinke, I'm going to suggest it would take Beckham, Sale, Mitchell, Viciedo, and, s*** I don't know, Santos, Flowers, Escobar? The point is, it's going to cost an absolute s***load for the Sox to get him comparatively to the rest of the teams in the league. Put into visual form, is Greinke-Peavy-Floyd-Buehrle really that much better than Danks-Peavy-Floyd-Buehrle? I'm going to say no and I think Greinke is probably one of the top 5 pitchers in the AL. It's simply not worth it.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:12 PM) What about this--- Sox trade: Danks Viciedo Mitchell Sox get: Garza Holland Beltre Texas trades: Holland Beltre Texas gets: Danks TB trades: Garza TB gets: Mitchell Viciedo For TB Mitchell + Viciedo is great value for Garza. Holland + Beltre is a lot for Texas, but fair value IMO because Danks is worth a ton, and with Danks being a hometown guy and Texas having money they'd probably give up a little more knowing they've got a good chance of extending him. For the Sox, Danks to Garza is a downgrade, but not a HUGE one, and this is made up by swapping Mitchell for Beltre, who IMO is a better prospect. Viciedo for Holland straight up is a nice, fair deal that makes Mark replaceable. By doing this deal the Sox save a very small amount of money - but this would enable a Buehrle to the Yankees for salary relief deal to take place, if the Yankees would agree to that. From there the salary relief could be used a number of ways, but my favorite might be trying to get either Beltran or KRod from the Mets by offering a prospect or two and taking on salary for Teahen and/or Pierre. Personally, I do think the downgrade from Danks to Garza is a huge one. I think Danks is a #1-2 caliber starting pitcher, whereas I think Garza is anywhere from a #2-4. Holland is a good piece, but one that still needs development, and Beltre is still probably 2-3 years away. If you are going to trade Danks, trade him for good MLB parts or trade him for minor league parts...going basically straight down the middle just doesn't seem to work because I don't think the Sox are really getting fair value.

And the Royals aren't going to trade Greinke within the division anyways.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:00 PM) I could see them as willing trade partners. After the Swisher deal they may feel like they owe us one. Of course, after the Contreras deal, the Swisher deal may have been what the White Sox owed.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:31 AM) They offer arb in stupid situations too. They offered arb to Varitek after he came off a dogs*** year because they could. Other than the Yankees, no other team in baseball would have done that. Varitek declined, realized no one would pay him like a star when he wasn't, and then came back on a far better deal. But that was a stupid decision that just kind of worked out. The Red Sox abuse every system they can find and they're lauded for it. WTF would the Minnesota Twins have been able to do with that kind of free reign to do whatever they wanted? Well they would do what they always do...try to take over the world.

Maybe I'm the idiot here, but is Philly really going to have to pick up THAT much on Blanton's deal? I'm thinking they can probably pick up anywhere from $3-5 mill (effectively making it a 2/$12-14 deal). Blanton is still about a league average pitcher and he will work well in the middle to back of pretty much any rotation in the majors.

Looks like the 5/$120 as mentioned previously; however, the option is worth $27.5 million and vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2015 or 400 between 2014 and 2015. The buyout is worth $12.5 million. So it looks like $21.5 million between 2011-2015 ($107.5 mill) plus the $12.5 buyout ($120) or $27.5 ($135) 6/$135 really isn't too bad, is it?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:12 AM) That's the easy response. But they spend on the draft and have become a player development machine. Look at their current core, guys all in their 20's that came up through their system: Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Buchholz and Bard. You're talking all-star to MVP caliber right there. When your system can produce that much then yes, it's A LOT easier to flex your financial muscle. And then have enough to land a bonafide superstar (Gonzalez) and still have valuable pieces in the system? I won't discount the financial advantages they have. But it's certainly not as simple as "well, they can spend x amount of dollars." Having the ability to retain those players is pretty important though too. I mean, before moving into Target Field and resigning Mauer (and Morneau, Cuddyer, and the smaller extensions), how many players did the Twins either trade or lose to free agency simply because they couldn't afford to keep them? Same thing with Tampa Bay and Milwaukee, and going back a few years, Cleveland and Oakland too. Boston spending as much as they do on the MLB roster does have a huge effect on their team, regardless of whether they are producing those players or not. Had Youkilis come up with Oakland and had this much success, do you think there's any way he's still with them today? I would say there is no shot in hell of that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:00 AM) Slightly OT...does anyone other than me sit here, read something like this about Lee, and think "how the Hell did the guy who could barely stay in the league in 2007 turn into a student of the game overnight"? It seems to me that he just started throwing strikes. He's always had good stuff - he was part of that Bartolo Colon trade, was the 30th ranked prospect in the game at one point, and did have one good full year in 2005 along with half of a good year in 2004 (before the White Sox knocked him on his ass). Slightly more off-topic...the Indians got a s***load for Bartolo Colon. And, though it doesn't seem odd anymore, Grady Sizemore is probably the 3rd best player in that package. That's absolutely insane.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:48 AM) The last time the White Sox liked Yankees prospects we came back with Jeff Marquez. Stay away. And as nice as it is to see the Yankees come away with nothing here, the Phillies are becoming just as bad. Again, I don't think the White Sox liked those prospects as much as they didn't like Nick Swisher. They felt as though they needed to get rid of him and then you have to try and spin that into a positive somehow. So "we like what Jeff Marquez did in Arizona and think he has good stuff" was essentially code for "Nick Swisher is the devil."

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:36 PM) I can stand moving Jackson, but not Floyd. Please not Floyd. Remember the last time we traded for Yankees prospects? Bad, bad memories. Are you talking about the Swisher deal? If so, I don't think that was as much of the White Sox trading for Yankees prospects opposed to the White Sox simply trying to get players they felt worked within their system for a guy that they needed to get rid of.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) It's human nature. People devalue the known and value the unknown. Fans know everything there is to know about guys on the Sox. They don't see guys on other teams play every day. It's always been that way, always will be. Like in college. If you are an observer of one of the bigger programs, you see he fans salivate over the incoming freshmen and transfers and devalue the juniors and seniors who have been there, done that. That may be human nature, but this is also logistics. Colby Rasmus has put up good numbers at the major league level, Mark Buehrle has too throughout the duration of his career, but he's going to be 32 next year, is due $14 million, and is a free agent at the end of the season. Would you trade Gordon Beckham for Wandy Rodriguez? I know I wouldn't. I also think you can reasonably assume (or know) that: -Colby Rasmus is better than Gordon Beckham -Wandy Rodriguez is better than Mark Buehrle -Wandy Rodriguez will be cheaper than Mark Buehrle At some point in time, people need to realize that we aren't simply undervaluing our own players but instead are not undervaluing other team's players. Colby Rasmus may not be a superstar, but he's still a pretty damn good player, and the Cardinals likely aren't going to be trying to go out and spend another $14 million on a starting pitcher when they already have about $50 million committed to their current rotation.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:58 PM) Don't see the Yankees wanting to trade their 5-win OF with 2 years of service time for Gavin Floyd. You don't say? I bet they might be willing to move their 4-win right fielder for him, though something tells me the White Sox don't want to deal with Nick Swisher again.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 07:30 PM) If Lee doesn't sign with NY, what about a Buehrle/ Brett Gardner kind of deal ? Money is no object for NY and Gardner can take over for Juan. I doubt Buehrle would accept a trade to New York, Buehrle isn't anywhere close to the caliber of Cliff Lee, and Brett Gardner is really, really good. If the Sox are going to trade a left handed starter to New York and have any shot in hell at getting Brett Gardner in return, that starter is John Danks, and even then, the Yankees are left without a left fielder too. The Yankees don't have any reason to deal Brett Gardner. And if they don't sign Cliff Lee, they aren't going to suddenly have a s***ty team or have an incomplete rotation. They made the playoffs with virtually the same team, and they'll probably do it again too.

Yeah, but I would be. I'm far sleeker than Joe Borchard and I understand situations and I will keep the manager entertained. And I am scrappy. I hustle on every play and take the extra base. Plus I'm clutch too. Even though my average in innings 1-8 is .032, it's more like .911 from the 9th inning and on. I also once went from 1st to 3rd while standing in the outfield. If I could hit it 500 feet...yeah, I'd be in the majors. Joe Borchard sucks. I don't.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 04:41 PM) Two guys that I think would be perfect for the current situation the Sox is in are Duane Oliver and Brendan Donnelly. I don't know if they're free agents or not, but they seem to be the ideal middle-relief type pitchers the Sox could've gotten on cheap 1-year deals. Uhh, Darren Oliver? Darren Oliver met the conditions of a vesting option with Texas and will be back there. And looking at his numbers last year in Pittsburgh, tell me if you still want Brendand Donnelly to be in the bullpen next year.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 02:38 PM) Was this post really necessary? The only people who had a problem with the trade didn't think JR would find a 20 million dollar bill in his seat cushions. And, I think we should wait until he makes a few more starts until we label him as a Cy Young contender. Who called him a Cy Young contender? I said if he has 1 bad start out of every 11, he's going to be a Cy Young contender. That's like me saying that if I could hit a baseball 500 feet I'd be in the majors.