beck72

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:22 AM) Juan Pierre is an excellent player, period. He would be a huge asset to the White Sox, and further, I believe the White Sox will get him unless some other team blows them out of the water. With Pierre going into his FA year, the price should be a lot lower than most of us are expecting [though if the sox did pick him up, people would still be calling it the newest "worst trade ever"]

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) Seems to contradict what most of SoxTalk thinks.... And the Braves got to see a lot of Pierre with both teams being in the NL East.

Here's a plug for Pierre from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Doesn't sound too bad--a workaholic: BASEBALL: Marlins' sell-off can aid Braves Terence Moore - Staff Thursday, December 1, 2005 Juan Pierre. He's exceptional. He's available. He's exactly what the Braves need to push their streak of consecutive division titles to 15. Not only that, he's capable of doing enough with his bat, glove, legs and heart to end their annoying habit of vanishing each October. We're talking about a guy who arrives at the ballpark five hours before most of his teammates. Prior to games on the road, he fires balls against the outfield walls to make sure that he knows all of the possible ricochets. He even spends time rolling balls from home plate toward first and third base, just to see how far to place his bunt attempts down the lines. Here's the biggest thing: He's the ultimate winner. In fact, it was Pierre's considerable energy that did the most to propel the Florida Marlins to a world championship for the 2003 season. In other words, if the Braves take my advice about Pierre, the choppers and the chanters needn't worry about those gathering storms. You have the suddenly potent Mets, for instance, but this is only a mirage. They are doing what they always do after imploding in a New York minute, and that is, they are throwing a bunch of pennies at folks and praying that it works. They got Carlos Delgado to smash the ball, and they got Billy Wagner to keep hitters from doing so. This isn't a mirage: Rafael Furcal is going, going, almost gone. All that he did during his six years with the Braves was provide a wonderful spark as a leadoff hitter and own a solid glove at shortstop that nearly was golden last season. I mean, didn't he? And isn't it time to wonder if the Braves will vanish earlier next season than normal? Jack McKeon chuckled over the phone on Wednesday from his home in Elon, N.C., between chomping on one of his eternal cigars. He's a baseball lifer who most recently managed the Marlins before retiring after last season. He chuckled, because the Mets and Furcal notwithstanding, he can't fathom how anybody can believe that the Braves will stop winning the National League East as long as John Schuerholz is general manager and Bobby Cox is manager. "Listen. Everybody thought we were going to walk away with the thing last year after we picked up one guy, and that one guy was Carlos Delgado," said McKeon, still chuckling, whose Marlins finished seven games behind the Braves. "You know, I like Furcal, but there is nobody who is not replaceable. Look at how the Braves brought in all of those young kids [18 rookies] last year, and they just took off. It's getting the right players, and that's the knack that Bobby and John have. They're always able to get somebody who fits in and can pick them up." Did I mention Juan Pierre? He's the Marlins' center fielder. With a phone call to those operating the latest fire sale for this sorry Florida franchise, Pierre is the Braves' left fielder (some guy named Andruw Jones already is in center). Yes, Pierre slumped to .276 last season, but that still was just eight points lower than Furcal's batting average during what was considered a superlative year for the Braves' catalyst. And Pierre's lifetime mark is .305 as the leadoff guy that the Braves would have with a Furcal departure. He steals bases, and he rarely is caught (267 out of 363 attempts). He makes contact more often than not (never more than 52 strikeouts in a season). Mostly, since the Braves are traditionally a finesse team, they need as much grit as they can get, and Pierre is the grittiest player in the game. He never wants to leave the field. Since Pierre's first full year in the majors with the Colorado Rockies in 2001, he hasn't played less than 152 games in a season. He has spent each of his three seasons with the Marlins playing every game, including every inning during the 2004 season. "In all of the decades I've been in the game, I've only had two workaholics --- Tony Gwynn and Juan Pierre," said McKeon, still employed by the Marlins. As a result, he couldn't say how he thought Pierre would fit with the Braves. Then again, he didn't have to. tlmoore@ajc.com

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 04:49 AM) They just signed Crawford to a long ass contract too, their building around Baldelli and Crawford. Neither of them will be coming here. The key is the old management signed Crawford. the new guys just signed Baldelli.

Seeing how the new mgnt just signed Baldelli, he's not going anywhere. Crawford was signed by the old mgmt earlier this yr. Seeing how the D-Rays have big glut of OFer's, they could trade Crawford for a bunch of talent

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 08:15 PM) After last season, Pierre would have to be considered a "maybe" guy himself. The Sox are going to have to work some of their prospects into the line-up somehow, or trade them. Pierre isn't a maybe guy after one subpar year. Esp as he started the year injured. I agree about somehow working prospects into the system. But people have mentioned having Owens hit #2. that's not working him in--that's setting him up for failure.

Ron Villone: signed 2-year deal worth 4.2M thru 2006 on 1/18/05- + he receives a 500K signing bonus and salaries of 1.7M in 2005 and 2M in 2006- + he can earn 100K in performance bonuses based on app. and another 1M in incentives if he starts 30 games: 25K each for 50 and 55 games and 50K for 60 games; 200K for 20 starts and 250K each for 25 and 30 starts- + FLA owes him about 588K in 2005 after trade from SEA Agent: Scott Boras Marte IIRC, makes even more than Villone, over $2 mill

I don't think the Marlins would want Marte, esp as his contract isn't that small. Isn't Villone's deal similar to Marte's?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 03:09 AM) But, what correlates better to scoring runs? Batting average, or SLG%? It's SLG% -- and OBP, for that matter (not sure which correlates better, but I'm confident in saying SLG% and OBP correlate better to scoring runs than BA does). Pierre's OBP is very batting average heavy. So -- if he has a year in which he doesn't hit for a BA above .300 -- he ends up with a line like last year -- .276/.326/.354. Oh -- but I forgot about all the havoc he'll cause on the basepaths... Pierre fits in with the sox recent trends of getting guys coming off bad years, but who have a had a track record of success. They can probably get him for less because of his down yr you quoted. But his career BA of .305 and OBP of .355, along with his speed on the bases, and bunting ability, seem to be what the Sox want. You seem to be saying the sox don't need what a guy like Pierre brings to the table. that's fine. We can argue which is most important--but the sox are the ones seemingly looking for a #2 hitter along the lines of Pierre

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 02:51 AM) Bingo. But he can't hit homers, he sucks

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:29 AM) Pierre was spectacular before that? He got on base okay for a couple years, but nothing eye-popping, he's almost always had next to nothing in terms of pop, and his defense has long been considered just adequate. He steals bases -- I guess. Even there, at his best he's around 75%, so it's not that big of a help. We powered our way through the playoffs. Who still thinks that sb are more important than obp AND slg AND hr? Pierre's a career .305 hitter. He can get on base vs. tough righties. The sox don't have a lot of .300 hitters

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:20 AM) No chance whatsoever. The White Sox are even higher on Sweeney than I am. If a deal was made for Pierre, I could see Owens moved before the other OFer's. Esp as his defense is less than both Young's and Anderson's. Sweeney's sweet swing should be sticking around

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:46 AM) We have been one of the top teams in the league when it comes to our runs being off of homeruns. We are a slugging team ten times more than we are a small ball team... no matter what ozzie... kenny... brooks... or anyone else wants the fans to think. We need another high ops guy, not a guy with a .700 ops than will steal bases at a 58% clip. I thought that's what getting Thome accomplished

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 10:54 PM) Despite him being awful last year, I would say alot of guys would like to have their worst year being parallel's to Damaso's worst year. The key question is--can the sox trust Marte to come in vs a LH batter [the role he needs to fill as Cotts is the top LH guy] and get him out? I know I don't. More importantly, I don't think the sox coaching staff has that confidence, as as the whispers and talk about him being traded seem to point to.

I like this. Cotts has taken over the LH stopper role Marte had--a guy who can get both lefties and righties out and shut the door. This leaves Marte expendable. But he has a lot of value to other teams, which could net the sox are solid #2 hitter being talked about. Marte has had trouble getting both out lefties and righties. If he were lights out vs lefties, keep him. But Marte has probably lost the confidence of the coaching staff. Having a guy like Myers who is lights out vs lefties helps the sox bullpen. At a reduced price. And in the talent the sox will receive from Marte.

From the suntimes. This makes sense. If the Sox resign PK, they have the power bats to make up for a speed and OBP guy like Pierre. If PK doesn't return, they'll need some power from the CF spot. http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca29.html

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 08:18 AM) Its kind of funny though. Majewski is the best guy Kenny has given up the past couple years (in the sense of what they are doing in the major league level). I'm talking about prospects so I'm not counting C. Lee. Majewski did a good job in his 1st full season out of the Nats pen. And Majewski was a rule 5 guy a few times, IIRC, which means teams could have picked him for peanuts. All in all, the players the sox have traded the past few years haven't done much. The sox have had the better of these trades. The players the sox have received have far outperformed those they've given up.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 10:35 PM) Did Hahn say that they could look within the organization for the #2 hitter that they desire or if it will be a free agent or a player from another team? I'm just wondering if he is talking about Jerry Owens or making a trade for a guy like Juan Pierre. Hahn said that it was a priority after getting PK signed. Inferred that it was from the outside. He also said the #2 hitter didn't have to have speed.

QUOTE(DrGiggles @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) Dude, I don't think the market was too high considering Thome said he was only gonna go to a midwest team that had a chance for success. That would be Cleveland and Chicago. OTOH, considering the sox wanted a big lefty bat to hit #3 or 4, someone who could fit in well in the clubhouse and not mess with the team's chemistry, it could be said the sox market for that guy was very small as well. So in that regard, overpaying prospect wise made more sense than the average trade

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) Another one that could be used as insurance and wouldn't cost the farm to get would be a guy a lot of people were talking about last season...Rob Mackowiak. Makes more sense than paying Mueller $8 mill for 2 yrs

As insurance for Joe, I definitely could see KW going after a versatile player like Ryan Freel. As long as Freel [or any other replacement] could handle playing 3b everyday. If and when Joe returned, having a big money guy like Mueller around wouldn't make sense

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) Beck what are your thoughts on Gio compared to Liotta? Ray had a good year no doubt, and an excellent ERA at his 2 stops (2.26 Kanny, 1.45 WS), but his lack of K's are a little bit worrying to me (only 37 in 8 starts for the Warthogs). Of course I know you don't have to strike out pitchers to be successful, but the key for Ray will be can he keep that ERA low in the higher levels if he's not going to strike out a lot of hitters. I'm thinking Gio's body might not hold up as a SP in the majors. That or else the Sox saw something in him they didn't like, either personally or professionally. He certainly had the numbers

Looking at Haigwood a little closer, his high walk total for a soft tosser didn't exactly fit for the sox. If he had Buehrle like control [who Haigwood was compared to], then it would be a different story. But a soft tosser who gets himself in trouble with walks is begging for trouble Gio's numbers were excellent. But I'm glad the sox have Liotta

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 02:05 AM) I wouldn't mind picking up Patterson as a backup OF. He'd come cheap. It's been something I've thought about for a year. I think the Cubs did just mess him up with wanting him to go up and down in the order so much and never letting him get comfortable in one spot. A back up OFer has to play more than just CF. I don't think he'd be worth the talent it'd take to acquire him.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 06:06 PM) No. Pierre makes too much money to give up that type of prospect. Marte and some change or no deal, imo. I'm tending to agree with that. Esp seeing how Pierre [and Dye] will be FA's after 2006. Giving up one of the OF prospects, after trading Arow, doesn't make a lot of sense. Someone like Josh Fields, Casey Rogowski though, I could see.