beck72

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 11:16 PM) Isn't Lilly a major flyball pitcher? I don't feel very comfortable with him. He throws more FB than GB. like a 0.80 ratio. Though in HR's allowed in '03 w/ Oak, gave up 24 in 178 1/3 ip, and 26 in '04 in Toronto in 197 1/3 ip. IIRC, Toronto is supposed to be more of hitter's park than Oak. One thing else looking at his stats, his K/ 9 would lead the team right now at 7.23. Jose is next at 7.02, with Freddy at 5.72, MB at 5.66 and Jon at 4.29. EL Duque is at 6.03.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 05:17 PM) If the Twins trade for Randa, they would just move Cruddyer to 2nd base. That's Cuddyers' best position. A Minn. writer speculated that getting Randa would be their best move

I can see the Twins giving up some pitching for Randa. They need someone for 3b far worse than the sox.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:53 PM) When I went to the article I'd thought it was written on 6/13. Either way, 670 mentioned something about it today ... it could be something they're just picking up on (new info) or they're talking about stuff we already know. I have learned not to trust either Offman or Levine but let's face it, those two guys are closer to the situation than we are. They talk to agents a lot, and I suspect that's where they get some of the good stuff. True. They can read media reports and then simply ask yes or no questions of some with firsthand knowledge

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:39 PM) And let the other contenders pick up the #1 starter? The Sox should try and pick up the best starter available. This is turning into a year like no other. Going for a 5th starter-type is the kind of conservative style that will have the White Sox watching the World Series on television just like they have the past 45 years, and not winning one the past 88. I'd like to see the sox get a top of the line bullpen guy rather than a SP. Few guys out there would be better than the top 4 we have now. The sox can't mortgage the entire farm system for both a top SP, top bullpen guy and a big bat. Could the sox make an impact trade for a bullpen guy like Brad Lidge? More likely to try that than go for a SP with a big contract when the sox will have all 5 SP's back in 2006. Now that wouldn't be too conservative, now would it?!

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) beck I think they are reading Sox Talk and WSI. The initial story in the Toronto Sun was from at least a week ago. But the Balt. game was just this past Monday?

QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) a starter isn't needed. there's nothing wrong with BMac taking his lumps as long as the lead in the central stays in this neighborhood. and as deniro said in midnight run, "that's a pretty respectable neighborhood." The sox shouldn't let their top SP prospect "take his lumps". It's not good for his development. And more importantly, it's not good for the sox team to have to use up its bullpen every 5th day. If the sox did that, not only would its lead shrink, arms would get tired as well

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) BMAC could do that just as effectively, and without getting rid of players or picking up salary. No thanks, Lilly is a second tier starter and is worse than anyone in our rotation right now. BMac might be better than Lilly--in a few years. But if Lilly can get any where near his last two years numbers [like 4.05 and 4.20 era--and under 4.00 in each of the second halfs the last three yrs] Lilly would give the sox what they need: innings [into the 6th, 7th most games], a chance to win games by giving up 3, 4 runs, and keeping the bullpen from wearing down. BMac hasn't been able to do that. If he can, great. But he is only 21 and may need more time. [One more start, maximum] The Sox shouldn't allow a rookie to break into the majors [learning on the job] when they should be gearing up for the playoffs in the 2nd half run. Even a 2nd tier SP like Lilly should be able to give the sox innings. At the minimum, the sox can keep a vet like Lilly out there to eat innings [to keep the pen fresh] even if he gave up 10 runs before the 3rd inning ended. The sox would have to pull a rookie like BMac far earlier.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 06:27 PM) WSCR 670 The Score is reporting that the Sox are scouting Ted Lilly. I guess they read the papers a day or two late

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) Btw, was going to mention that James Baldwin was also pitching that night but it's just so hard to get your humor going this early in the morning. Didn't catch that until now

QUOTE(Southside hitmen @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) Would love to trade Dye and have the Sox pick up Pierre The sox have their own Juan Pierre and his name is Pods. The Sox OF is set with the 4 guys [Carl included] they have now.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) Just to point out the overlooked but obvious, who to say that they were scouting Lilly? There's another BJ that would be of interest to the Sox, Miguel Bautista. I know he didn't end up pitching that night but maybe the Sox felt that the best chance of seeing a reliever pitch was with Lilly starting. Anyhoo, just a thought. True. Yet Lilly's a FA after this season, Batista has another year left on his deal. with the sox needing to sign Garland to a deal [and work on AJ, maybe Paulie], getting another contract in the mix hurts the chances of signing everyone. If the sox were looking at Batista, it wouldn't be the worst thing though for the bullpen. however, I see a LHP being added.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:37 PM) Yeah that would be my guess to. But if we aquired him, what do you think it would cost us. I know that he was traded for Keilty, but on our team, who do you think it would take for us to get Lilly. Hard to say what Toronto wants or needs. The article speculated that Schoeneweis or Batista could go back to the rotation. Maybe a bullpen arm [vizcaino] or minor leaguers near ready for the majors who could pitch this yr [bobby Jenks or Bajenaru]. With two guys having off years like Vizcaino and Lilly, a swap could make sense [with the sox adding a prospect]

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:27 PM) I wouldn't be dissapointed if we got Lilly, but I wouldn't be estatic either. He is a decent pitcher, and could help us out if we aquried him. I agree, which is probably why KW had a guy there to watch him.

Before this gets into all the fantasy trade deals, let's get back to reality. There was a media report linking the sox to Lilly. Let's look at the reasoning behind the sox looking at him, instead of the pie in the sky crap It's not to get a top of the line SP. It's for a 5th SP type.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:09 PM) Derek Lowe, anyone? Not with the new huge contract.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) I know it is. KW has to be prepared to overpay. I have no faith in El Duque being healthy. He rested his arm the last month and a half of last season, and the winter, and lasted a third of a season. He then sits a couple of weeks and gets lit up 2 or 3 times, and his arm is tired again. Its not going to all of a sudden stop getting tired. This is probably the White Sox best opportunity to win a lot more than a division title in a long time. The money is supposedly there. They bring in a frontline starter, and they become the odds on favorites to win the World Series. Even ESPN personalities would have to jump on the bandwagon. I'd have to see the names. But of those names I've heard, at a reasonable price, I don't see them being better than the Sox current 1-4 guys

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:37 PM) Honestly, the way this team is playing this year, and having the best record ever by a sox team. KW knows this could be the year we do it. So he is definatley going to look for a big trade just to see what he can get. If it means sacraficing a possible player down the road, do it. I honestly think he is looking at players like Oswalt, he was looking at Chavez, etc. This is the year to make that HUGE trade that can put a team over the top, sort of how Houston did it last year with Beltran to get them to the playoffs. But making a huge trade also could displace an everyday player or a SP [like El Duque or Jose C. Thus hurting the team chemistry that almost every sox player has talked about. A 5th SP type wouldn't hurt the chemistry one bit.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:34 PM) Nothing doing. If you are going to make a move to improve this ballclub, do it right. Wait until the trade deadline and see who becomes available or who surfaces as the most coveted. Adding a SP who can give the sox innings will help the club now. Esp if Bmac isn't ready. The Sox are just going through June with the most off days they have the rest of the way. they can't afford to have a SP who taxes the bullpen. Even a mediocre SP could help. But I don't see the sox getting an ace type SP at the deadline. Maybe a bullpen guy. But not a SP.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:28 PM) He gets a #1 or #2 type starter, the Sox would be the most feared team in baseball, plus if they continue to build this lead in the division he could rest guys the second half. I'm not sold on El Duque in the playoffs. He's hurt, and I really don't think he's going to be in much better shape for the playoffs. Getting a #1, #2 SP is far easier said than done. And not worth the price IMO. I think the sox would be hard pressed to find a SP out there who could better what Mark, Jon, Freddy and Jose can do. Plus, if El Duque can pitch, a 5th starter type could go to the bullpen.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 09:21 PM) Lilly is a flyball pitcher that is susceptible to the longball. His ERA at the Cell would be atrocious. Could he be more consistent than Bmac, and throw more innings? Yes. Could he help the bullpen [in the cotts' long man role/ LOGGY guy] if El Duque returns to form? Probably.

Also, seeing how Lilly's $3.1 mill. contract is up after this year, the Sox could offer arb to him, knowing he'd refuse it, and still get some draft picks for him [based on his decent two previous yrs. The one yr rental, who could be the 5th SP and be the LHP who takes over Cotts' spot in the bullpen when/ if El Duque returns?! As long as he's not too expensive [with his 6+ era, shouldn't be--hell, the A's traded him for Bobby Kielty] why not. The sox could never have too many decent SP's.

Has Ted Lilly's name come up during this thread? I started a new thread where the Sox were looking at Lilly this Monday vs Balt [with a link from the Toronto sun] It would seem the sox brass is looking for a 5th starter as well. No sense throwing BMac out there in the midst of a pennant race when the sox could get a "battle tested veteran" who could be the 5th SP or go to the pen if El Duque is healthy.

Didn't see this anywhere so I thought I'd post it. According to today's Toronto Sun, KW's assistant was at monday's game [along with 3 other teams looking at Lilly]. http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2005...099252-sun.html Could be the sox have some concerns about BMac being ready for the 5th starter. If BMac isn't the answer, and El Duque's health doesn't improve, the sox would need a 5th starter. I guess Lilly could be the long man in the bullpen, if El Duque's health improved. Yet the need sure would be there. Save Bmac for 2006, use this year to work in AAA. This makes some sense. Seeing how Lilly was traded for Bobby Kielty last time [in 2003, 2004?] he wouldn't cost a lot in terms of talent. Though he has a 6+ era, he's thrown better in the 2nd half the last 3 years, and has thrown well lately [vs 2 division leading teams, Balt. and STL]

Neither. The sox should only fear losing their hunger and players due to injury. the sox play like they're capable of and those teams will only be fighting for the wild card