beck72

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 05:06 PM) Thanks Jason. Personally he is the type of guy I see KW going after. Arizona is in the thick of things I suppose, 4.5 games out, but 3 games under .500 and further back in the wild card. If Vazquez can demand a trade, AZ might be willing to part with him now. Purely speculation on my part but the AZ scouts have been tailing the White Sox. Jenks is up now and if he can perform, a bullpen guy may be a trade bullet. AZ would love to get ahold of Brian Anderson too. Lots of potential matches between the D-Backs and the White Sox. you read my mind. For Vazquez, a current bullpen guy [like Vizcaino] Bmac and Anderson would seem the kind of price AZ would want. That way at least 2 of the guys, maybe all 3 could help them this yr

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 06:58 PM) I don't understand why the Padres would send two bad pitchers for another bad pitcher, and still send money, too. Quantrill's had a lot of success in the NL. Simply getting out of NY may help him and the Pad's. as far as the Yanks are concerned....

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 04:31 AM) I would agree Moyer is a risk, but a different kind of risk - can he pitch outside Seattle? On the plus side the guy will not get a sore arm like El Duque, and his head is always going to be in the game unlike Contreras. I think KW and Ozzie realize now that McCarthy cannot be the answer this year if El Duque has any more arm troubles, and I don't think they have much faith in Munoz (though he was pitcher of the week) or anyone else at AAA to be an emergency 5th starter. My gut feeling about Moyer is that he will be a better pitcher again if put on a championship team. His last good year was 2003. It was a run of 3 great years for him from 2001-03. In each year Seattle was competitive. When the team dropped off, Moyer nosedived too. I don't see Moyer as a savior that will necessarily put us over the top. But he's a savvy pitcher who might get it together for one last hurrah. He pitched very well in the postseason in 2001, so I see him as potentially better than El Duque and definitely better than Contreras in postseason starts. If the sox can't strike a deal for an "ace" type SP [which could very well happen, few guys are out there and they have some big question marks around them] I could see them opting for a veteran having a down year who has had postseason experience [ala Moyer, Glavine, Lieter--guys on one yr contracts]. I think the risk is less for a guy who has proven himself in the past and getting better results for the 2nd half [as long as they are throwing well, healthy]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 02:41 PM) A month or two ago I would have loved Wagner, however with Shingo imo back we really don't need a bullpen arm. I'd rather not trade for a guy like Wagner and go for a starting pitcher ala Schmidt or Burnett a top of the rotation guy in other words. Obviously if the sox really want schmidt that bad then our scouts were impressed with what they saw and think he can return back to his previous form and I think I'd be inclined to trust them. I think the sox will go after the best available pitcher, either a bullpen arm or SP. Wagner would certainly qualify as the best reliever who could be available. But the prices being talked about for Schmidt seems way out of whack. Burnett's price isn't really known.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 02:28 PM) I don't know, it seems like a typical Cubune Sox story, fan the flames of descent and ruin in the headline and 1st paragraph and only after reading the whole thing do you get to the heart of the matter. Do the Mets own the Inquirer or vise versa? It's the Philadelphia Inquirer. I get your point though. But with expectations always high in PHI, and Wagner not having helped them win [through no fault of his own] I could see fans turning on him even though what he said is the truth. Fans will look for a scapegoat. And Billy may have given them one.

QUOTE(Winnin Ugly @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) I heard it on the sports radio station here in LA... If we did trade Carl to LA just curious who the Sox want in return Not going to happen. IMO, it isn't worth speculating

QUOTE(TLAK @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) The Injuns were on ESPN last night and played a nice game against the Orioles. Brantley was waxing poetic about how great they are and how they will be a factor in the Central. Said the only team that he has seen give them trouble is the BoSox. Didn't mention the White Sox at all. Didn't note that Cleveland is 11 games behind the White Sox at about the half way mark, or that while they are 2-4 v the BSox while they are 3-6 v the WSox. Guess 2-4 is trouble but 3-6 isn't. Sometimes I think the White Sox are invisible. As long as the sox aren't invisible in the playoffs. Only winning there matters

Billy Wagner just may have talked his way out of Philly. No way will Philly fans be kind to Wagner after this. He should be gone by the deadline. With his being a FA after this yr, few teams will overpay for him. I'd hate to see Boston come bidding for him. But the sox should be making a call today, if they haven't already ------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted on Fri, Jul. 01, 2005 On Baseball | Wagner says Phils can't win The outspoken closer, asked about playoff prospects, replied: "No chance." By Jim Salisbury Inquirer Columnist NEW YORK - Two games before the midpoint of another season of great expectations and even greater underachievement, the Phillies are just a game over .500 and 71/2 games out of first place in the National League East. As July begins, it's difficult to imagine this sputtering $95 million clunker making the playoffs. Just ask Billy Wagner. "No chance," was his response when asked yesterday whether he thought the Phillies had what it takes to make the postseason. "We ain't got a chance to get there right now." Wagner was standing in front of his locker in the Shea Stadium clubhouse after the New York Mets had handed the Phillies their 11th loss in the last 15 games. The outspoken closer spoke calmly and never raised his voice. But, in responding to a few questions, he offered a powerful commentary on a team that could be in last place by bedtime tonight. Wagner, who went to the postseason four times with the Houston Astros, was asked what he believes is missing from the Phillies. "The know-how to win," he said. "You've got to know how to win before you can start thinking about playoffs. "There are a lot of reasons to have faith. This ain't over. But anybody who says we have a clear shot to the playoffs right now is fooling themselves. We've got to win." Would a trade help? "Adding pieces isn't going to make us any better," Wagner said. "If you don't learn to win and show some fight, it doesn't matter." Fight? "We win, we lose, we play tomorrow," Wagner said with a shrug. "There's not that drive. There's not that focus all the time. "Good teams find ways to get it done. The Braves. The Marlins. You don't see them complaining. The Braves were all beat up with injuries and now they're at the top of the division. "It's time to quit bickering. We bicker about calls on the field. We bicker about the field. It's time to take it upon ourselves and play - concern ourselves with just winning." At times, Wagner sounded a little like Larry Bowa, albeit with less emotion and acid in his voice. Bowa often wondered about this team's character and said things like this many times during his tenure. Wagner isn't the first to question the team's focus. Manager Charlie Manuel addressed the subject in a team meeting Sunday. The Phillies' lack of focus often can be seen at the plate in the form of bad pitch selection. Jimmy Rollins struck out swinging at a pitch near his eyes leading off the fourth inning in yesterday's 5-3 loss. Tomas Perez hacked at reliever Roberto Hernandez's first pitch with one out and two men on in the eighth inning. He grounded into a double play. Manuel said he didn't have a problem with Perez's swinging at the first pitch in that situation - as long as it was a good pitch. But the pitch from Hernandez was down. The Phillies lost two of three to the Mets. They might have lost all three had not Mets pitcher Kazuhisa Ishii walked four in Wednesday night's 6-3 Phillies win. All four of those walks eventually became runs. Far too often, Phillies hitters don't look as if they have a game plan. One veteran Mets player was stunned that Phillies hitters didn't try to work counts more in Tuesday night's game, which the Mets won, 8-3. Hitters aren't the only ones who are not executing. Jon Lieber lost his fourth consecutive start yesterday and is 8-8 with a 5.18 earned run average after going 5-1 with a 2.57 ERA in his first seven starts. Brett Myers has allowed 13 earned runs in 71/3 innings over his last two starts, both Phillies losses. "We don't stay focused often," Wagner said. "In a big situation, we don't focus on what needs to happen. We don't force guys to make pitches on us. We don't force guys to make bad swings when we're pitching. "Myers, Lieber, Wagner, every guy in here needs to step up and make a big impact. "We're only 71/2 out. It's not like we're 12 or 15 games back. But a lot of things have to go right to get back in it. We made up six games in a heartbeat, so it's possible." The Phils were 21-26 and in last place, 71/2 games out of first, entering play on May 25. They then won 15 of 17 to go to eight games over .500 and 11/2 games out of first on June 12. It's reasonable to wonder whether this team has another run like that in it. And it's certainly understandable if you doubt it does. After all, what has this team done to win your faith, other than what looks like a lightning-in-a-bottle, home-run-fueled 12-1 homestand that seems as if it happened eons ago? Wagner was asked whether he thought the Phils had another run in them. "I have no idea if we do," he said. "We've just got to play better. I don't know what we've got left. We have to look inside and ask ourselves what we're playing for - to be here, or to win a championship. You can say it, but you need to prove it. "We've got the guys here. We just need to prove it." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 11:05 AM) According to today's LA Times: "De Podesta is believed to have targeted Adam Dunn. Other available players who fit Dodger needs and McCourt's budget include Aubrey Huff and Carl Everett." Everett won't be moved. I thought he might if he couldn't play the OF. But Carl has been able to give Frank, Pods, Arow and Dye a rest by his playing the field. Its working out very nicely. Whatever the dodgers could offer for Carl wouldn't offset his loss.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 10:17 AM) He's not unloading him, EOS. Oakland can be right back in the thick of things next yr and they'll do it by building around a guy like Chavez, not trading him. Besides, BB never sells his MVP caliber players even when he knows he's going to lose them(see Giambi, Tejada). All this Uribe for Vizquel talk has to be put back in its original context, that of one component in a larger trade for Schmidt. In that context there's alot of merit to the idea. Pettite went to Houston to play at home, I don't see him changing his mind just to jump on a shooting star. Besides, he was only a few outs away from the WS last yr. I'll believe the Oswalt trade rumors when I see it, I think I'll have plenty of time to wait on that. All the chavez talk seemed to come from the sox asking BB about a trade. From all accounts, KW was quickly rebuffed. Chavez isn't going anywhere, not this year or anytime soon, esp as the A's are so close to .500. The A's can contend in the next few yrs and he'll play a huge part I can see Hou. trying to get younger, with Bagwell and Biggio just about done. They have few impact position player prospects. Without trading a guy like Oswalt, they'll likely won't get any. Even with 3 stud SP's and a lights out closer, w/o any hitting, Hous. can barely stay out of last place.

I'm not sure if this has been posted anywhere, but I re-read it and found it very interesting waht asst. GM Rick Hahn said from the 6-30 Daily southtown: "There are sort of — I don't want to call them lesser elements, but maybe lesser role players that we are discussing," Hahn added. "But those types of players would actually leave us running a bigger risk with the chemistry. We feel like, 1 through 25, everyone is pulling in the same direction. So if you are going to disrupt that, you almost would prefer the major impact guy." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- So, the sox think that even adding a bench type player could disrupt the team chemistry. If that's the case, adding an impact player for the same "disruption" would be preferable, as the impact would be greater. If the disruption is the same, get a player who could have a greater impact on a game's outcome. I like the fact that the sox are thinking big.

Seeing how Burnett has only made 38 starts in the last 3 yrs, has only went 200 innings once in his career [last in '02], what teams will give up their top talent for him, as he can walk as a FA? Bmac and a decent prospect would and should be enough for him [though IIRC FLA wants some immediate bullpen help as well as a SP]. Whether you do it, who knows. If he continued pitching like he has been, maybe. And Ozzie must have some insights into him as he pitched a little in '03 when ozzie was over there

QUOTE(Winnin Ugly @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 10:56 PM) Maybe Farmer was giving us a hint that the Sox have been talking to Houston about Oswalt If Oswalt was on the market, I could see the sox being very interested in him.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 10:41 PM) He'd definitely look nice in a Sox uni. My bet is that he ends up in Arizona though, revolving around a deal for Conor Jackson. I can't see Ariz. giving up a top talent like Jackson [esp as they only have fill in Cruz, Green's getting old and expensive, and the old cub has pieces falling off him]. Houston may seen dealing Oswalt as the quickest way to get better. Petitte can veto a trade, as can Clemens. Other than that, they have little to trade. Whether a sox trade of guys like Anderson, Bmac, Rogowski and a very good bullpen arm would be worth it, who knows. But Oswalt would cost a lot of talent [even w/o knowing what his contract status is]

Listening to Ed Farmer before the start of the game, he said he believed the astros would put Roy Oswalt on the market. They certainly need help in a lot of spots. Brian Anderson would have to look good for them

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 10:00 AM) LOL, sorry Giants. Ain't gonna happen. Schmidt is good but he isn't worth that much, especially since his healthy can't be guaranteed. You can see their point. See if other teams give your asking price. Or stick with him for 2006. They'll be sticking with him for '06.

from today' s suntimes: "RUMOR MILL: Obtaining starter Jason Schmidt from the San Francisco Giants to make a run at the organization's first World Series title in 86 years will cost the Sox more than they are willing to part with. The Giants are said to be looking for a No. 2- and a No. 3-type starter for Schmidt, who has a $10.5 million option for next season. Dealing Jose Contreras and Brandon McCarthy might come close to filling that bill, but a top prospect -- perhaps like Class AA outfielder Ryan Sweeney -- probably would have to be included. What the Giants really are said to also be looking for are mid-rotation guys who are approaching a final arbitration year and might have trouble re-signing with their current team. Not too many players are in that position, but the description might fit Jon Garland and the Minnesota Twins' Carlos Silva. The Sox, though, are not about to part with a pitcher who is their feel-good story of the season as well as someone who finally is rewarding the organization's patience." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- looks like schmidt can be crossed off sox fans wish list

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:15 PM) If Contreras can be traded, then why not make him part of a deal for Schmidt? He's a more proven commodity than BMac, Anderson, Gload, or anyone else we might include in a deal with SF. And why do you think I want to make this deal? To improve our chances for a WS with Schmidt and Vizquel instead of Contreras and Uribe. If we added the SF guys, there would be no role for Contreras or Uribe, so why not try to make them cornerstones of a deal. To me, trading just minor leaguers for Schmidt or Barnett makes no sense, even if SF or the Marlins went for it. SF might want Contreras over BMac in a Schmidt trade. They aren't completely rebuilding. SF still wants to win in 2006.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:05 PM) Hanging our hats on the Count beating a bad Royals team twice or a bad Rockies team isnt looking into history. The count for years would look dominating against bad teams, and then would choke against good ones. The ironic thing is that the minute someone would hit his fastball hard at all, he would completely abandon it and go into the forkball mode. The count is tipping his pitches again, he is working real slow again. We have one of the best game calling catchers that he shakes off over and over. Watch AJ during the game, he and widger both look at wits end when they watch over and over the shake off on the fastball. No one is denying the count has filthy stuff. I am confused why he doesnt feature the 95-96 mph fastball more and use the fork as the out pitch. But he doesnt. The minute someone puts good wood on the ball, he is the forkball machine. You took the words right out of my mouth about his being bale to beat the weaker teams. You can also see Coop and Ozzie getting pissed when Jose is doing his slow down routine. I really don't want to see Jose pitching the 4th game of a playoff series. Now, I can see him in the pen, where he walks or hits guys and he gets lifted right away.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:04 PM) I think there's a reason KW only offered him 2 years in the offseason. But for those two yrs at least, he'd put up some nice numbers [obp, sh, sb's, switchitting, etc]. He certainly hasn't had a let down from his very solid 2004 yr. IIRC, will Omar make like $5 mill in his 3rd yr?

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:34 PM) I've advocated a trade for Schmidt and Vizquel with the Sox giving up Contreras, Uribe, Anderson, Gload, and a lower prospect (or their choice of Takatsu/Vizcaino). (The Giants might take this because they want major league ready guys.) That wouldn't cost us more than a couple million more than we are paying Contreras/Uribe, but would be a definite improvement in our postseason chances. Vizquel is a .357 OBP guy. Uribe is at .276. That's like having a .300 hitter v. a .220 hitter in the lineup. The .357 guy makes a lot fewer outs. Given our offense, that would help a lot at the bottom of the order. Plus Vizquel is a switch hitter for a lineup bereft of lefties, has more speed than Uribe, and is basically his equal defensively. Both are signed for 3 years. I don't think SF would give up Vizquel [though he'd look great on the sox--what he could do for the sox at the plate would be immeasurableI'd be giddy as a school girl with everything POds, Iguchi and Omar could do to set the table for the bashers]. But he'll be needed for next yr when Bonds comes back. A swap of Uribe isn't a half bad idea. SF can get some power out of the SS spot, as long as they had a #2 hitter to replace Omar in another position, and would help them get younger

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 06:28 AM) The reason I'd make that deal ... The road to the AL crown is going to go through Boston. Contreras cannot win at Boston. That is a proven fact. If we are down 2-1 in Boston, I'd much rather have Scmidt on the mound than Contreras. Who knows what the situation will be with Hernandez? Very good point. With Contreras' inconsistency, even pitching against scrub teams with nothing on the line, having him pitch on the road in the playoffs might give Ozzie and KW a heart attack. Somehow, I think Ozzie and KW want more of a sure thing 1-4 before the deadline to load up for the playoffs. Now, could SF want Contreras as part of package for Schmidt? Esp. as they'll want to be in win now mode for 2006? Who's more likely to help SF win in the short term--Bmac or Jose? Jose probably. Yet the 5th spot for the sox could be handled by a combo of Hernandez and Bmac.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:34 AM) And again, you don't seem to get the concept that we don't need another ace pitcher. Why? Because that will minimize probably Garland or Garcia's effectiveness which essentially would be benching an ace. So basically you're trading for a guy who is going to be benched(Ozzie is extremely loyal to his guys and will ride his guys over a guy who was traded for who has similar #'s to Duque and Count). I rather get proven major league relieving like Wagner or Lidge or a 3B or SS who are upgrades at those positions for this team. That is much more needed than starting pitching, especially when 2 of the starters are going to be thrown into the pen. With the sox being linked to names such as Schmidt, Zito and Lilly throughout many national baseball links, zero on getting guys like Lidge or Wagner or a big bat, a tiny bit on the sox asking about Chavez, there seems more of a focus on SP than anything else. FWIW, what you or I want makes zero difference. Kw will make a move or two to improve the team. Hopefully, those moves will pan out.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:46 AM) Yeah, let's assume an injury is going to happen to someone out of three of the most durable starting pitchers in the league and overpay for a starting pitcher. That sounds smart. I guess injuries can be planned, huh. Ineffectiveness as well. My larger point is that there are over 3 months to play. Jon and MB's pitching has been fantastic. I'd love to see both keep up the career years they've been having. Odds are that at least one of the sox top 3 guys won't be able to keep up what they've been doing. If they can, so much the better. The sox wouldn't exactly waste a top tier SP who can hang with the best 3 SP's they've got now. But you also plan for the worst [the 4th and 5th guys are spotty, with a season ending injury to the big 3 after July 31st--I forgot those never happen] Getting another SP who can easily be the #2 or #3 starter, wouldn't exactly be a luxury if such a scenario came to be. and last time I checked the world series can't be won in June. But it can be lost in the last three months leading up to October, without the strongest possible SP.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:22 AM) In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen. You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me. Like I said, no one can touch the sox top 3 guys. NOW. But things can change in the last 3 months of the season. I'm looking for the sox to build a team that [even with an injury] could take the W.S. I said it's easier to find a reliever who can get 3 outs than a SP who can get 21. I didn't say its a priority. Getting one cheaper means the sox can add elsewhere [like a SP] Now you made the point for me