beck72

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 18, 2005 -> 01:35 AM) Getting Omar gives us a possibily better 2 hole hitter than we have now in Tad, and obviously that is pretty hard to do. My concern is what happens to Joe. I guess he could go into one of the Omar/Wagner deal. Omar at SS, with Uribe at 3b, and Freel and Pablo backing up the Infeild would be great. Joe would get some time off to rest his back but his glove is too valuable to keep him off the field. Uribe would be the back up to 3b, SS and 2b, playing 4 times a week. With Vizquel around for 2 more years, Uribe could probably be dealt in the offseason. A $3 mill a yr UTL guy is too much to pay.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 18, 2005 -> 01:24 AM) If getting a guy like Freel/Vizquel and than Wagner cost the Sox a few of their top prospects, so be it. Very solid reasoning. The price might be high [with guys like Tracey, Jenks, Sweeney/ Young, BMac for a SP] yet those two additions would complete the sox

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 10:32 PM) I was looking at the box scores from the 2000 ALDS. I think adding a bat might be wise, and I'm with you about adding a closer, moving all the bullpen down a spot. In that 2000 series the Sox scored 7 runs in 3 games. They scored 4 in the first 2 innings of the series, all against Mr. Freddy Garcia. Lee,Thomas,Konerko, and Ordonez combined to go 3-40 in that series. The 2 guys still on the team, Thomas and Konerko were a combined 0-18. The sox should look at a Vizquel type bat and either Guardado or Wagner. Then sit tight

QUOTE(mac9001 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) Most teams have figured out all you need to do against Arroyo is stack the lineup with lefties. The man has a OPS agianst around .850 vs. lefties. It's not Arroyo is that good. it's that Boston would have to give up a lot of prospects for Burnett [who isn't all that impressive], which could leave a bullpen guy like Wagner or Guardado for the sox.

QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 04:42 PM) I thought Buster was crazy when he said that night. Not to sure how the sox would use J Encarnacion Could it be the Red Sox? 'Cause they could use Encarnacion as a UTL OFer, with Payton traded away.

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) The red sox would be stupid to give up arroyo for burnett Shhhhhh, the Red Sox might hear you Let them hit the panic button because the Yanks are on their heels. The white sox would probably fare better vs. Burnett than Arroyo anyway.

IMO, El Duque has just as much chance as Jason Schmidt, or AJ Burnett [not to mention the lesser tier SP's mentioned] to give the sox 6, 7 strong innings in a playoff game. Yet it wouldn't cost the sox a penny more or any prospects. Then the sox still can get a top tier closer and another bat.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) I think El Duque in his 2 starts this week is going to render all this trade talk mute, both talk of him and any other starter. You mean there will be people on this board saying El Duque could win the Cy young after one or two starts?! That won't happen!

At this point, the sox should hang onto El Duque. Nothing the Yanks have could help the sox. And with their improved play as of late, why help them make the playoffs. As long as Orlando's healthy for the playoffs, his experience should come in handy. If the sox get another SP, El Duque could always throw in the pen.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 08:19 AM) we will not beat Boston in the playoffs if they get AJ Burnett I'd almost rather they get Burnett. Then they can't improve their leaky bullpen. Burnett's straight fastballs the other night would look like big juicy meatballs to our sox hitters

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 08:08 PM) So I take it I'm the lone person that thinks he's over-rated. His stuff is nothing special and he gets by with deception, imo. He gives up a good amount more hits per inning pitch and doesn't have high strikeout totals. Consider me un-impressed and dissapointed if the Sox acquire him (cause I think it would cost an assload to get him). I haven't seen chacin pitch, but I can't see the sox going after a young guy and then count on him to help in the playoffs. They should get a guy like Lilly who is versatile and has thrown in pressure situations. Lilly gets his fair share of K's, which is what the sox need from a SP/ long reliever

Cruz has been starting in AAA, going 22 innings in 4 games. He'd certainly be stretched out for long relief

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) If you can get Juan Cruz for Shingo, you do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Look at Cruz's stats from Atlanta last year, plus he's doing extremely well in AAA. Before anyone says Leo Mazzone, this guy had nasty stuff when he pitched for the Cubs. He fits the White Sox situation perfectly ... a guy who can spot start or relieve. I would be very happy if this happens, it would be an excellent deal for the White Sox. And he'd be the long man for the bullpen which the sox don't have. At the very least he can eat some innings to keep the bullpen fresh for the playoffs, someone who can go 3 innings during blowouts so the other guys don't have to be used. Yet he also has a good upside.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) I dont think this rumor is very good. Shingo has a no trade clause which they fail to mention. The teams I think Shingo would approve (and in reality I think right now there is no reason to move from the Sox) are LA, San Fran, Seattle, and maybe the Angels. Why accept a trade to a team with a worse chance of winning when you are 36, on the last year of your contract, and have come from Japan to win? Only the Angels have a better chance of winning then the DBacks, who most think is the "team out west". I don't know the specifics of his no-trade clause. Yet if any team would have a decent shot, a west coast team that could make the playoffs would be up there. The dbacks aren't exactly the Pirates or Rockies

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) Don't forget, we play a lot of games against AL Central teams in the 2nd half. They've all seen a lot of Shingo. That's a good point. Teams like Boston, LAA and NYY have seen Shingo for an extra yr. Viz is new to them as well

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) Sure it's doable, but you don't pull the trigger unless the other deal is done at the same time. That was my point, and at this point I don't think the other deal is in place. That's why I think this rumor is just that, a rumor. I didn't like the Viz pickup to begin with and he's given me no reason to change my mind. Maybe that's bias on my part but so be it. The only reason I give more credence to this report than other "rumors" we've heard and read is the specificity. This seems to be a report based on an informed source, whoever that may be. Viz has been able to throw more than just his slider away, like he seemed to throw every pitch early in the yr. With a mid- 90's arm [wasn't that what we were told he had?!], and a lower salary than Shingo, why not keep him when he's doing better?

At least one paper has Burnett going to Balt. very soon. Makes sense that Balt. would go harder after him then the sox ---------------------------------------------------- Trade Talks Hasten for A.J. Burnett By Jorge Arangure Jr. Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, July 16, 2005; Page E06 SEATTLE, July 15 -- The Baltimore Orioles and Florida Marlins have accelerated trade talks for pitcher A.J. Burnett, according to several baseball sources. One baseball source said Burnett has pitched his last game as a Marlin and that Baltimore may be the favorite to land the 6-foot-4, 230-pound right-hander by the end of the weekend. Burnett would be a major addition to Baltimore's pitching staff that will also add Erik Bedard, who has been on the disabled list since May 26, on Monday. Burnett, 28, is 5-6 with a 3.64 ERA for the Marlins and is a free agent at the end of the year. To land Burnett, Baltimore likely will ask for a negotiating window to sign him to an extension. Burnett, whose wife is from the Baltimore area, is open to signing a long-term deal with the Orioles. But the Orioles have yet to start negotiating with Burnett. In return the Orioles likely will give up reliever Jorge Julio, pitcher Hayden Penn and outfielder Larry Bigbie. Florida also would include either outfielder Juan Encarnacion (.282, 11 home runs, 49 RBI) or third baseman Mike Lowell (.228, 4, 36), who would play first base for the Orioles. The Orioles appear to favor Encarnacion but may get stuck with Lowell, who is making $7.5 million this season and is signed for next season as well. Encarnacion is a free agent at the end of the season and likely would take Bigbie's place in the outfield. Florida had insisted that Daniel Cabrera be included in the deal, but the Orioles resisted. Florida pitching coach Mark Wiley, who was Baltimore's pitching coach from 2001 to 2004, covets Julio. . . . Manager Lee Mazzilli said that catcher Geronimo Gil, who has been on the disabled list since July 3 with an injured left thumb, won't come off the disabled list when he is eligible on Tuesday.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) I was reading my Baseball Prospectus, and Santos is supposed to be horrible defensively. They actually liked his bat, but said he would have to make a position change. Say a deal went down with SF, he could play at 3B [they've wanted to get rid of Alfonzo for the longest time] or SS

QUOTE(TLAK @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) '05: 16 errors in 84 games. In the BA's Prospect Report, as the DBacks #2 prospect, it said Santos' bat could play anywhere, even if SS wasn't his position. With Stephen Drew and Justin Upton, the DBacks might be set at SS [Drew in high A hitting .380 and probably could go to AA soon]

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:59 AM) West Coast Teams, possibilities for Shingo: I agree with the D-Backs being a potential destination, although they've fallen off lately. San Diego: in first place, bullpen is their strength and it's stacked. Angels: highly doubt the two teams would trade with one another Dodgers: possibility, but they're slumping badly and are basically out of it. Oakland: just made some deals to bolster their pitching. Giants: very far out of it, but the two teams have been scouting one another. Mariners: totally out of it, but the affinity for Asian players can't rule them out. I would have to say the Diamondbacks. Esp w/ Shingo's contract, only a team that still thinks it's in it would deal for him. Like you said the Dbacks make sense, being only a few games back of SD.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Personally I think this is a bunch of crap, you're not going to trade him unless it's part of a three-way for another reliever and Seattle has already said they're going to wait til the deadline to decide on Guardado and Philly seems in no rush to trade now either. The dumbest thing you can do is trade the guy for a prospect thinking you can turn that around later. Those are the teams who are always left holding the bag. That said, I've always considered that Shingo might be part of a Guardado trade but my preference would be to send Viz instead. Shingo at least can be a righty specialist, Viz IMO brings nothing to the table for us at this point. With KW no doubt in contact with other GM's about possible trades, he now knows what teams want and need from the sox. Trading Shingo and then getting a better reliever is certainly doable in an atmosphere like this. Viz has done much better as of late. Keeping either Shingo or Viz comes down to different factors though: how it would affect team chemistry [hasn't Shingo been quiet/ keeps to himself?], who would throw better vs possible playoff opponents and specific players, who can throw more than an inning as a bridge reliever, etc.

If the sox are getting a prospect at this point, whoever it would be would probably be dealt [or at minimum, a replacement for one of the sox prospects who'd likely be dealt].

QUOTE(kdhargo @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 10:47 AM) Enough with the free-swinging hitters with BB/K ratios of 24/89. Eech. I wouldn't want the sox to keep him. But he's valuable in a trade.

Sergio Santos just turned 22. He probably could be ready to play SS in the bigs in early 2006. That would be a good bargaining chip if the sox want to trade for a SS now [that would move Uribe to UTL] Here are his numbers coming into 05 http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/sergio_santos.shtml

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 10:23 AM) Thinking this over a bit, this could also be a move to just open up a roster spot to either finally bring Ross up or make this the move allows the Duke to be activated. Who knows really, guess it's just a wait and see at this point. In the short term, that might factor into their thinking. Though Jenks could be sent down and El Duque brought up. Yet the sox don't want to weaken their pen for the playoffs. Someone would be brought in later who'd be an upgrade over Shingo.