beck72

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 12:19 PM) Well if this is true and there's no reason to believe it isn't true, KW is going into aggresive mode again. It's just a matter of time. Again, Burnett is a guy with a different look ... unlike any of the other 5 currently in the rotation. Burnett is a true power pitcher. KW likes all his pitchers to have different looks, from that perspective it makes sense he's pursuing this guy. Burnett would give the sox their strike out SP. But my guess is the MArlins would want Cotts or Marte as the biggest piece

If the Marlins were in town looking at sox guys, bullpen is where they need the most help. Guys I could see them interested in would be Cotts, Vizcaino and Jenks. Seeing how they only have one LHP in the pen, cotts would have to look very appealing to them [young, cheap and good].

Burnett Trade talks heat up July 13 Miami Herald (registration required): "The Chicago White Sox are believed to be the team most aggressively pursuing the pitcher, who will become a free agent after the season. But the Baltimore Orioles have also renewed attempts to woo the Marlins, offering a package centered on reliever Jorge Julio, while the Toronto Blue Jays entered the sweepstakes this week." ------------------------------------------------------------------ the article doesn't say anything more about who the Sox would trade. though another FLA article mentioned a Marlins scout attended the A's series

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) Well I must say I really like this board alot (I mean it) there is such a disparety of comments that its hard to keep track. While I agree he has talent and would help, what would all those people who think we could disturb the chemistry think? All those saying don't mess with this chemistry. You literally would be taking on the most contraversal figure in the game at this time. Where are you people!!!? Where are all those chemistry experts! My take on the sox "chemistry" is they have found guys who want to win, who will sacrifice some of their game in order to help the team accomplish its goals. Even if a guy has some faults, if he can come in here and not "ruffle any feathers", and show a strong desire to win at any cost, even at the expense of some stats, that shouldn't disrupt the "team concept/ chemistry" the Sox have going, he would be welcomed. If Rogers [or other deadline additions] just want to get paid, and are out looking for their next big contract, f*** 'em.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:07 PM) Doc, twenty game suspension which he probably won't start serving until the end of the month, Boras as the agent, and he desparatly wants a new three year contract. he is not coming here. As a 3 month rental [ok two month after the suspension], who needs to "prove himself normal" in order to get a decent contract in 2006 [ like AJ] it wouldn't matter who is agent was. As long as his head wasn't messed up [sounds like Texas was planting stories to the media about him], Rogers would be a nice arm, IMO. The asking price wouldn't be near as high as others mentioned, like Burnett, Schmidt, et al. And other needs [bat, bullpen] could also be addressed. I'd be more concerned about his fitting in with the team. His good glove, his ability to keep teams from running, his good GB ratio, his all would be nice additions.

Don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere, but AJ caught Kenny Rogers in 2003 with Minn. KW would seek out teammate who knew him personally

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) Funny how it goes, you talk up a guys passion and energy and then hours later he goes out and lays an egg and gets yanked for his lack of energy and desire. Some of the youngin's around here would say you just got pwned but since I don't know what that means I'll just go with the "Teaching moment". looks like at least one columnist agrees with you. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...tscolumnist-hed The sox aren't good enough to coast through games. Vets like Dye, AJ, Hermanson, Iguchi understand this. Hopefully all the sox young guys will as well

An excerpt from today's suntimes [remember, Ozzie ball isn't just defense, pitching and timely hitting. It's also old school fundamentals. Mr. Uribe may have some learning to do. Whether it's enough to replace him remains to be seen] --------------------------------------------------------- What in the angry Oz-man's name was shortstop Juan Uribe doing in the eighth inning when he stood at home plate and watched his fly ball be caught by A's left fielder Eric Byrnes? Yes, the ball was hit pretty deep, though not nearly far enough to even suggest a stand-there-ain't-she-pretty home run. Yes, the ball was arcing toward the left-field foul line, though Byrne caught it maybe 20 feet from the chalk. Uribe barely made it out of the batter's box after standing like a post and watching the ball in amusement. A Little Leaguer would be benched for such a ploy. And Uribe didn't make it to the ninth inning. Guillen jerked him faster than a hooked fish and inserted Harris. ''I wanted to show my players we're here for real, and not because we're friends,'' a steamed Guillen said afterward. ''If they think I will let them do whatever they want to do, then they have the wrong guy.'' Good times are here for the Sox, yes. But bad times are never more than a slump, an attitude away. Ozzie knows this. Fun clubhouse or not, this is where it gets real. ---------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 04:19 AM) Here is some interesting info for the Trade Thread. I am watching the D'Backs/Reds Game right now, and they just showed some of the scouts in attendance talking about how the Reds (and more than likely the DBacks) will be sellers in the trade market very soon. In the group of scouts I saw White Sox Excecutive Advisor and former GM Roland Hemond. I wonder who all we are looking at on the Reds. Randa? Griffey? Harang? Could be looking at the DBacks as well

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 03:42 AM) Beck, I'm sorry, you compared 2005 Ozuna vs. 2004 Uribe? Not even close... a.)Ozuna isn't half the defender that Uribe is. Neither is Vizquel. Vizquel has lost a lot of range now that he's older -- he'll make the plays that come to him, that's about it. For a team that relies on GB outs as much as the Sox do, you need a vacuum up the middle. We'd see a lot more balls grounded back up the middle for basehits if Omar was there rather than Uribe. And, Ozuna -- well, he's a nice Tony G type of player off the bench, but again -- not nearly as good defensively as Uribe. b.)Ozuna has a line of .302/.348/.314. One x-tra basehit. He doesn't seem to walk a whole lot, so if those GBs that he has placed so well in the first half of the season start finding their way to defenders, he's going to be in a lot of trouble. Uribe -- in a full season -- slugged almost .200 points above Ozuna. The comparison is terrible, IMO. And, I hope this doesn't come off as me not liking Ozuna -- 'cause that's not true, he's been great, playing an average 3B/SS/2B/1B/LF/RF is awesome. But he's nowhere near as good as Uribe. And Vizquel is signed for a third year. He's doing better than last year in AVG/OBP/SLG, and a lot better than his career averages. Uribe, OTOH, is doing worse in those three categories, yet is only .008 points behind in SLG% after an awful first half. I expect regression to their career averages (or, last years averages) for both players. I compared Ozuna's hustle and passion to what Uribe showed last season [which has been down from Uribe this yr--whether its injury or something else, the ball isn't jumping off his bat like last year, the allout hustle hasn't been there, etc] . I didn't compare talent. Uribe is a very good young talent, esp his d. Ozuna is a 30 yr old journeyman My biggest case for a guy like Vizquel over Uribe is the sox could use a higher avg and OBP, someone who works counts better, a more consistent, versatile hitter who can give the sox more of what Pods and Iguchi can do, for this yr and the next few. From all accounts, Omar is no where near being done.

If the sox want to get a consistent SP/ long relief guy for this year, Day isn't exactly it. He looks and sounds like a trading chip, not a guy who can help this year.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 04:05 PM) In AAA the D-Backs have Scott Hairston who's hitting .307, while Chad Tracy could play more third base to back up Glaus, which is his natural position. They have Matt Kata as well IIRC. They also have SS Sergio santos, IIRC, as a top prospect. Not sure if at AA or AAA

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 05:07 PM) Like Omars Career #'s 5 years past his prime are not selective? I just gave ESPN's career numbers for both guys vs those probably playoff teams. As far as "past his prime", Omar's doing fine this year, like last year. And should be OK for 2006 as well.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) If uribe is used in a package to aquire an ace, then I am all for it. Straight up for vizquel? Why don't we just trade Rowand straight up for griffey and Garland Straight up for Randy Johnson while we're at it. Im sure we could trade a young guy on our 25 man for mesa too. The larger point is, could a deal involving those two key figures be made? It could include a LHP like Scott Erye, other players, who knows.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 05:02 PM) It doesn't make sence. Rangercal offers stats showing he pwns some pitcher but does that mean he blows vs the rest??? Selective stats to back up someone's opinion?! No way would someone do that?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) Would ya mind showing the to us maybe???? The biggest numbers that jump out at me this year is Omar's splits vs RHP, a big weak area for the sox: .329/.390/.410

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) Would ya mind showing the to us maybe???? I've put it elsewhere, but here goes. career numbers: Vizquel vs Bos: .237/.270/.316 LAA: .343/.416/.455 Minn: .347/.387/.459 Uribe vs Bos: .205/..250/.341 LAA: .191/.186/.244 Minn: .257/.296/.419

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) They could upgrade at 3rd. Vizquel was not going to bump uribe out of the lineup. Uribe played 2nd last year, remember? Vizquel was replacing Valentin , not Uribe. If we signed Vizquel we would not have signed Iguchi. Uribe was not the reason we were pursuing Vizquel last year. Except Ozzie has given Crede his stamp of approval. he hasn't done that w/ Uribe. The sox seem to have had their doubts about Uribe heading into this season, for SS or 2b. Iguchi has proven himself this yr. Uribe still has some questions about him. The larger point is, Vizquel is the type of hitter that is needed on this team. Another guy in the Pods and Iguchi mold. We'll see if that type of hitter is added in the days and weeks ahead.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 04:44 PM) Wow. He PWNED you with logic and stats. I've got stats also that show Vizquel hits better vs likely playoff opponents, like Minn, Boston and LAA. Logic, to each his own. But few can argue that Uribe would likely be a better hitter for the sox than Vizquel.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) As part of a package for something else? good point

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) Beck, You can't be serious? You don't try to pull that play on Derek Lee earlier this year if you don't have passion. Did you see that pick off play the other day against TB? Uribe cares. He has passion. He didn't gain as much weight that people tend to believe. I seen him at soxfest, he looked a little heavier, but thats what camp is for, to get back in shape. Frank has never come in overweight? Uribe is the only player to come in overweght? Uribe is hitting the following against these possible playoff pitchers : Johan santana .267 Randy Johnson .273 kenny Rogers .300 Mike Mussina .429 Curt Schilling .238 Matt Clement .333 These pitchers pretty much hold the opposition to under a .250 BA. He's Not exactly an easy out. Maybe it's just me. Johan santana .235 Randy Johnson .263 Curt Schilling .111 Kenny Rogers .271 Mike Mussina .260 no at bats vs clement What about A.J.? who is batting .247 What about Gooch who Batted .244 In June and .250 In july so far. Uribe is hitting .333 in July so far. Like I said he is up and down. Dye is just as streaky as uribe. No one is calling for Dye's head because he is hot right now. Dye hit .175 in april and can very well do it again in October. Last year Uribe hit .289 in August and .353 in September. Uribe will be a strong finisher. Vizquel is hitting .219 the last 3 years in september. Guess what? he is another year older. Uribe doesn't bunt? move runners over? hit sacrafice flys? Why uribe out and not crede? I bet most people would rather have uribe at bat in a game tying/winning situation over crede. I dont know how much passion and energy he can possibly have for a team he didn't even want to sign with a 1/2 year ago. The sox tried very hard to upgrade at SS in the offseason, even after Uribe's break out yr. I don't think he's wowed them this yr so far. IMO, Vizquel could help. With Ozzie saying they could use another bat, I don't see where else they could upgrade.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) Normally yes you don't trade low but we're trying to get to a WS so you sometimes have to do what's best at the moment. Uribe's hitting around his career avg right now, the fluke definitely appears to be last yr. I'm in no rush to trade him though but if you want upgrade a bat in the lineup and you are looking at what's available out there then he's the most logical choice. Well said. And it's not like the sox would be giving up the future. Vizquel could be very productive for the next 2 1/2 yrs. If the sox think Robert Valido can play in 2, 3 yrs, I'd say Uribe could be a very good trade chip for a big chance at winning the W.S. this yr and the next few yrs. Uribe will probably never be a .300 hitter. The .280 looks like his best [and came while not playing everyday too]. If the sox can upgrade 50 points in avg, near 80-100 in OBP, and give them another #1 or #2 hitter to give them what Pods and Iguchi have this yr, I think the sox should jump at the chance. Esp. for a guy like Vizquel who by all accounts is a pro's pro

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 02:03 PM) You dont trade a young ss when is stock is low. Uribe brings to the table what #'s don't show. Passion and energy that rubs off on everyone around him. I swear, I see uribe having the most fun out there. I would rather have him right now then vizquel. Uribe wants to be on this team. I can't say the same for vizquel. You really think Uribe's bat is hurting us? One good month for Uribe will put him close to .300. We still have an entire half of baseball to go. Dye was hitting .216 and is now over .270. Rowand was stuggling too. We still have close to 80 games left. I am willing to bet Uribe will have a stronger 2nd half then Omar Vizquel. I see old players have good 1st halves all the time, then they just fizzle down the stretch because 162 games is a lot. We should have stuck with rowand at cf in 2003 and we should stick with Uribe in 2005. I don't see the same passion from Uribe that he showed last year. Add in the fact that he was overweight coming onto camp, maybe the sox know something we fans don't. My concern is Uribe being an easy out vs. good to very good pitching. the pitchers the sox will face in Oct. could make easy work of Uirbe. I don't see that with Vizquel. Uribe just doesn't seem to fit the sox brand of ball this yr with his bat. his glove yes. Just not his all or nothing bat. With Joe Crede in the same boat, the sox can only have one guy be a good glove, weaker, streaky bat. Give Vizquel days off with Ozuna [showing the passion, hustle and energy Uribe showed last year, IMO] and he could be rested for Oct.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) So would I Beck, but either he or Timo is going anyhow and if you can package one up in a trade you're probably better off. There will be ute IFers out there after the deadline too. True. At least Willie has a minor league option left

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) Uribe, Harris, and a Munoz/Stewart/Adkins type for Vizquel and Scott Erye? SF gets a young DP combo and we get the bat upgrade plus the lefty for the pen we need. I'd be weary of letting Harris go as he still could be good insurance in case Tad gets hurt this year.