beck72

I could see the Rays wanting Uribe. Their SS's last year had one of the worst fielding %'s in the majors. Improving their defense would help their young pitching. I could see them getting rid of Baldelli. Yet I'm not sure what he'll be making contract wise if he'd be worth it w/ the high dollar buyouts, and I've read it a few times. here are the details: Contract: signed 3-year deal worth $9M thru 2008 season on 11/10/05- + the deal could be worth as much as $32M over 6 years- + he receives salaries of $2M in 2006, $750K in 2007 and $2.25M in 2008- + with 600PA in 2006, his 2007 salary can increase to $2.5M and 2008 salary can increase to $4.5M- + he failed to reach the 600PA in 2006 needed to trigger the salary escalators- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2009 worth $6M or a $4M buyout- + the option for 2009 must be exercised or declined by Opening Day 2008- + if 2009 option is exercised, then a dual 2010 Team Option worth $8M and 2011 Team Option worth $9M are added- + the 2010 and 2011 options must be exercised together- + if the dual option is declined, then he receives a $2M buyout- + because he did not reach the salary escalators above, he can earn $1.75M in performance bonuses in 2007 (mostly based on PA) and $2.25M in performance bonuses in 2008 (mostly based on PA)- + 2008 salary can become guaranteed at $5M (w/out performance bonuses) if he reaches 600PA in 2007- + he failed to reach the 600PA in 2007 needed to achieve this salary escalator- + as part of deal, if he remains with Rays thru 2011, he will have donated $400K to Rays' charitable foundation Agent: Casey Close (negotiated 6-year contract by himself) (fired Scott Boras in July 2005)

QUOTE(Wanne @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 03:31 AM) A lot of ifs here...but can anybody see ANOTHER deal with the Angels involving PK? I know they need/want a bat...so if things fall through on all their other fronts...it wouldn't surprise me to hear the PK to the Angels for Kotch and whoever. I could see going to the LAD rather than the Angels

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) It's not about the contract, it's how you view Pierre as a major league baseball player I didn't know he was dropped from the Dodgers 25 man roster

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 11:38 PM) It's Deja Vu. I feel like bumping the thread beck made last year because you made the exact same arguments. :lol Don't stop on my account. I was outfront on the idea of upgrading the leadoff spot. Maybe bringing in Pierre for $9 mill a yr would have been foolish--IIRC, if it was for that kind of cash, I said no. Now he'd come at a big discount. But I wasn't too keen on the Pods experiment w/o another backup plan/ upgrade. I felt the sox needed to upgrade in the offseason leading up to 2007 for more help at the top of the lineup.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 10:29 PM) Not that it matters, but Levine said he was positive Konerko was going to be dealt. Did he say that today on air?

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:38 PM) 2005 and 2006 he was a very good 2 hitter. He dropped off last season. You said we haven't seen a good 2 hitter for years. Orlando isn't going to give us anything better than Iguchi did in '05 and '06. Iguchi wasn't a true #2 hitter. I said the sox hadn't had a true #2 hitter for years--the kind who hits and runs, takes pitches to allow the leadoff man to steal bases, works pitchers, makes contact, hit behind runners, has speed. Iguchi said it himself and Ozzie said it that he wasn't a true #2 hitter. He did OK in that role that the sox forced him into because they had no one else. Yet if Iguchi was the answer to the sox #2 hitter and at 2b, they would have brought him back. That wasn't the case.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:35 PM) Arn Tellem AKA the agent of Frank Thomas Ben Wallace and Tracy McGrady (The Reinsdorf connection is strong). Tellem is an absolute beast, he tends to get top dollar for his clients (Jason Giambi, Hideki Matsui, Jermaine O'neal, Antawn Jamison.) The two years he'll be a FA will be right around the time Dye and Thome hang it up. And PK will be looking to DH. His bat might be worth the contract he'll get.

If the sox are going to stick with Fields at 3b and Richar at 2b, having Uribe around to play both and SS [and allows the sox to say goodbye to cintron] makes the $4.5 mill. look manageable. Uribe would be more valuable to the sox in his utility role than any scrub he could net in a trade.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:20 PM) Gio, Fields, and DLS are only prospects -- and none are considered elite by places like BP, BA, etc. Cabrera is an elite major league player under control for 2 seasons. Given the current direction of the Sox, trading Gio, Fields and DLS for Miguel Cabrera would be a perfect fit. I guess time will tell. And the sox do have the Ozzie relationship with Cabrera to encourage him to sign a deal ala Freddy Garcia. It would definitely depend on how sure Ozzie was to Miguel extending. Who is Miguel's agent?

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:12 PM) How can you not want Miguel Cabrera? The only person who should not want him is the owner of an all-you-can-eat buffet. Not at the cost of 20 + potential years of major league experience in top talent such as Gio, Fields, De Los Santos, +. He's got a bat to die for [and sign to a long term deal] but not to trade for only 2 years.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:06 PM) But still, Gooch was damn good in the 2 spot. If he was that good, the sox would have kept him and signed to a 3 yr deal.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is... "We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said. Pun intended? Would a "Ray" qualify, such as Crawford? I don't want Miguel Cabrera. But what this does seem to imply is another trade on the horizon.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 06:47 PM) Wait, what? Wasn't Iguchi like the ideal #2 hitter? Iguchi was a guy they fit into the #2 spot. Iguchi himself said [and Ozzie] he wasn't used to that role of giving up AB's hitting to the opposite filed, bunting, taking pitches, etc. He was always a power guy in Japan.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 06:40 PM) Unfortunately -- and I stress 'unfortunately' -- I'd guess this is the route they go. After all, the Sox have who, exactly, who could replace Cabrera in 2009? It sucks, too, as I'd much rather have the two top 100 picks than Cabera's mid-30s seasons. It beats trying to sign a 50 yr old Vizquel

The sox have lacked a true #2 hitter for years. Cabrera is that. I bet more trades are coming but Orlando is likely staying put.

Am I the only who think the sox will make a strong push towards re-signing Cabrera before hits free agency? With so few options at SS in the minors, locking Cabrera up for a few years makes sense rather than settling for picks. Though the sox would at least get picks in the event they can't sign him to a deal.

It seems dodger fans have a mixed review on Pierre as well. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153121 People seem to fall into 2 camps--those who hate Pierre and those who think he's OK and not as bad as the haters think. Kind of like around here, I fall into the line of thinking of "bushleaguer28". Those against Pierre are represented by "Topace". Blue Zoo seems to say it right. With Pierre, you know what you are basically going to get. With the White sox current roster of hitter, you don't know what you are going to get. Those 200 hits, 60 sb's, and ability to play everyday, might not be a bad option considering what else is out there. **************************************************************** BlueZoo Starter Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 740 It's amazing to me that all the arguing about Pierre one fact (the most important fact ,BTW) is totally ignored and not addressed. Pierre, whether you like him or hate him, did exactly what was expected of him...exactly. Almost 200 hits and over 60 stolen bases. Did you think, I repeat, that they didn't know he made a lot of outs and had a LL arm????? He does the same thing every year...and that's what he got paid by us to do it. Just like Gonzo and Nomar and Schmidt etc. got paid to do what they did- and much less , I might add. I personally don't care if they keep him or not- I can't stand a poorly throwing OF in CF, especially...but he did precisely what they expected of him. Did you think he was going to blast lots of HRs and hit .333 or something? and what, have an arm like Carl Furillo all of a sudden just because he came to the Dodgers?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 07:50 PM) It doesn't matter that he hits .290. His OBP isn't good and his slugging is awful. How can you not see how below average Pierre is? Oh, right, 'cuz his batting average is good. And everyone knows batting average correlates the best with scoring runs, right? Oh, wait. Honestly, I can't think of a dumber move than trading for Pierre. We already HAVE Juan Pierre on this team in Jerry Owens. Why in God's name would we want another one? If this made a damn bit of difference, his OBP would be higher than the .330 that it has sat at the past three seasons. And Pierre is a terrible leadoff hitter. He's a terrible number two hitter. Yes, let's give the most or second most at-bats to a guy who's arguably the worst everyday position player in all of baseball. That's utter brilliance. Did Pierre like ruin your life or something? Like I said, Pierre at an avg, of $9 mill a yr for the next 4 yrs is horrible. But if it's close to $5 mill, not so much. I'd love to hear a few of your suggestions about finding the right position players for the sox, given the market and names that possibly could be available. One way or another, the sox are going to need guys at the top of the order. Owens might never better his 2007 numbers [which were elevated due to a hot Sept.]. Ideally, the sox could use Owens near the bottom of the order. If the sox think Owens can improve on his 2007, finding the right platoon partner who can hit LHP might be the move to make. Take a flier on Reed Johnson of Tor. who might be non-tendered or traded. Re-unite him with college pal Rowand.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 05:12 PM) At least Pierre will hit .290, stay healthy (most likely) and steal 50 plus bases. Good lord, I'd pay anything not to have Pods be counted on again as a starter. Exactly. While Pierre makes little sense at $9 mill a yr, if the sox could knock that salary down to near $5 mill, that's not too bad.

QUOTE(max power @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 11:46 AM) Yeah no kidding. A lot of people liked scott in '05 but look down on pierre. I think its because Pierre is over paid. Anyway, Pierre could almost bring that '05 line with his career avg. Pierre also has better range in the field. Both have noodle arms. If Pods could stay healthy and put up his 2005 numbers .290 avg, .350 OBP and steal 59 bases, a lot of people would say stick with him. Except for the OBP [though Pierre makes better contact, strikes out less, and is widely regarded as one of the best bunters in baseball and leaders in infield hits--yeah, that is important for the sox as they often go through periods of making easy outs and putting pressure on the defense can lead to manufacturing runs], Pierre can do that. I remember seeing the difference of the sox record when Pods has scored a run. For this sox team, they have shown how much success they can have when Pods has done well for them. The money is the big concern. He is overpaid. Looking around the majors for leadoff hitters who can play a position the sox need to fill [CF, LF], the sox don't seem to have a lot of options. Crisp isn't bad but he is likely going to cost more talent than we think.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 01:38 AM) Why on God's green earth would anybody want Juan Pierre starting for their team? He doesn't get on base, he doesn't hit for power, and he turns singles into doubles because he has no arm. And you want him for left field? Left field, seriously? The average left-fielder hits .275/.350/.460, and we want a guy who will struggle putting up a .690 OPS? What a terrible baseball player. And I love this line: No he wouldn't. If Juan Pierre is anything more than a fourth outfielder on your team, your team has some real moron at the helm. Pierre's average OBP the last three seasons isn't even .330. This isn't 2004 anymore -- Pierre blows. Guys who can hit .290+ in the majors don't grow on trees. If anything, Pierre is a healthier version of Pods. All in all that's not too bad. The question is the money. If you pay him $5 mill, that's a lot different than his current deal which does blow.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) Pierre is a butcher boy. That contract the Dodgers gave him was outright stupid. With all of these options out there: Trade prospects for Crawford, Trade our entire farm system for Miggy, Trade Crede for an old beat up Damon, Trade for Pierre and pick up his hefty contract, Sign Hunter/Rowand for a boat load of money.... All of these options make me like the idea of Owens playing in LF and seeing if we could deal Garland for a guy like Gomez....or just give pennies and get Crisp. Our organization better start thinking pennies on the dollar, because a lot of these deals just don't make sense for us. that's a deal I'd like the sox to make. Gomez and Owens could platoon at worst. Yet the sox are making a commitment to win in the next 2-3 yrs. Will Owens be able to hit .280+ and post a .340 OBP? That's a hard call. Going into 2008 w/o another leadoff option other than Owens makes little sense though. Not to mention the sox don't have a #2 hitter either. Ideally, the sox should have at least 2 options for guys hitting #1 and #2. Right now, the sox have one option for leadoff in Owens.

The Dodgers have made noise about moving Pierre to LF. That they would trade Pierre seems like a no brainer as LA has some young talent, certainly needs to add some pop, and is targeting a CFer this yr. He's signed for 4 more yrs at an avg. of $9.125 mill per [$8mill in 08, $10 mill in 09 and 2010, and like $8.5 mill in 2011]. If the sox could get LA to kick in cash, couldn't that make more sense than trading for a less expensive salaried Coco Crisp, though Crisp would come at a higher trade price than Pierre? Rotoworld speculated that LA might have to kick in $10-20 mill. Split the difference and say LA pays the Sox $15 mill, that would knock Pierre's contract down to $5.375 mill a yr. Ozzie knows whether Pierre would be a good fit or not. Though Pierre has a low OBP [he's tough to strike out and makes a lot of contact], he does hit for avg [+.290 the last 2 yrs]. Ozzie sure seemed to let Kenny pick his top of the order guys last offseason--keeping Pods, adding Erstad. This yr, I'm willing to bet Ozzie gets his choices. I know people will say the sox have a Pierre clone in Owens. That may be. But Ozzie has seen both and play and knows what he each is capable of. The sox could still acquire Rowand for CF, hit him #2, and Pierre leadoff.

The sox may well trade Crede to the Dodgers [if LA doesn't trade for Cabrera]. But probably not for even one of those names mentioned. And the sox won't give up most of their top talent in the minors for 2 yrs of Cabrera.