beck72

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) With Fields in LF, why would it make more sense for Rowand to be out there over Hunter? Because the sox probably won't pay the $5 mill. for Crede and the $15 + mill for hunter. However, the sox could get Crede and Rowand for the price of Hunter.

With Josh Fields in LF, I think you can rule out Hunter in CF. Rowand makes more sense, anyway even at 3 yrs, $30 mill than Hunter and his 4, 5 yr deal at $15 mill per.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 24, 2007 -> 01:19 AM) Considering he's made some nice catches of late and has some good games, the question remains, is he a starter next year or not? Owens just does not strike me as a starter on a team that wants to make the playoffs, let alone win the world series. Seeing him swing through mediocre 90 mph fastballs down the middle isn't going to cut it in the bigs as a leadoff man. At best, IMO, he should be a platoon player in 2008 [provided the sox got a better option at leadoff]. At worst, Owens could be a 4th OFer who can play LF and Cf and steal some bases.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2007 -> 12:33 AM) Then you are on the hook for his guarantee no matter what he shows you in the spring. Make him make the team next year. Myers has experience, the Sox have plenty of guys who could use a little. The big difference is you wouldn't be basing whether or not a guy would be a member of the 2008 White Sox based on their performance like you would be for Myers. Ozzie was quoted as saying he'd like to add some veteran experience to his young bullpen. Experience means more than just innings. It's playoff experience. The sox pen, outside of Jenks in 2005, is sorely lacking that. As far as why Myers now--Myers has been pretty consistent and effective over his career. The sox get a trial run for peanuts to see if he still has that consistency and effectiveness, before they are locked into a full year of him.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) Personally I would like both. Richar getting a good chance to play with a veteran to back him up and be a key bat off the bench. A guy who can hit like Grudzelanek (not necessarily him but his profile) would look nice but I don't know if they can devote a roster spot to someone who is solely a 2B. No more Cintron though, they need to do better than him. I could see Jason Bourgeois splitting time w/ Richar at 2b, seeing he can also play Lf and CF. With big money contracts to certain position players, spending $3, 4 mill on bench guys makes little sense.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) But what does Myers performance the rest of this season have to do with how he will perform next year? I'd rather get some young guy up who could use some experience and invite Myers to spring training. Swapping out Thornton for Myers does not strengthen the bullpen IMO. IMO, Myers with a 3.00 ERA who can get lefties out, plus what the sox can get in a trade for Thornton would be >> than thornton with a +5.00 ERA who can't get lefties out. The sox can get a close look at Myers and see if he's a fit for the 2008 bullpen. Additionally, the Sox can use Logan in the 7th, 8th innings vs. lefties and righties--ie, Thorton's role. So Logan gets more experience, which is very important going into 2008. He'd take over as the top LH set up man. Right now, if a young LHP was called up like Vasquez or Reynoso, they'd probably get lit up. They don't seem to have the control or stuff to be anything more than a LOGGY at this point. Yet when rosters expand in Sept, they'll probably get a shot. and Maybe Phillips in a relief role as well.

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 07:13 AM) I can't believe how many people here can't think outside of the temporary box. Come on guys, most of you were probably agreeing that Jon was the real ace of the team back between June 4 and July 1. If you want to trade him because you want to free up money that's one thing, but don't say you want to trade him just because he's pitched bad for the past month and a half. He's not a Cy Young by any means, but we all know he's a lot better than he is right now. Are you still going to be yelling for a trade when he's putting up zeros and getting us wins? I think it boils down to how can the sox improve their team the most, given the current roster and prospects ready to come to the bigs. The sox have options in the pitching dept--both in the bigs and minors. If this is a strength, and one trade won't necessarily hurt the pitching but could improve holes at a few other key spots, like SS, OF, bullpen, then a case can be made to trade a guy like Garland. If Contreras can regain some resemblance of the pitcher he was at the end of 2005, beg. of 2006, then the sox pitching wouldn't be hurt that much with jon dealt. Outside of Fields, the sox have few strong position player prospects that could help the sox in 2008 or 2009. This is a big problem the sox need to address this offseason. Because 2008 is the year to do it with big contracts going to Dye, Thome, PK, and maybe a free agent like Hunter or Rowand. the sox could then work in a young SS or a leftfielder, along with Fields and Richar, and not hurt their long term chances of winning. Personally, I'd much rather go with a young guy with upside like Richar to go with the current sox vets than pay millions to a mediocre vet like Grudzelanik.

Garland would be the best available SP this offseason by a long shot. For a team wanting to win in 2008, and who thinks they can re-sign him to a long term deal--think west coast teams--they'll trade a lot for Jon. At least what Houston did for Jennings. If the sox could then fill long term holes at SS, an OF spot, and the bullpen with one trade while subtracting $12 mill, I think they should do it in a heartbeat. Esp. if Jose isn't hurt, which by all accounts he's not. Then the sox have SP's 1-3 signed for at least 2 years, #4 in Danks, who will improve on his 2007 year, and #5 from a few solid candidates who would likely be able to give what Danks has this year--innings and an ERA in the 4's.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 04:52 AM) I hate how Poreda is still starting in rookie ball. He needs to be in low ball right now. Gio/Egbert need to be in AAA and other moves could be made too. What is the Sox's deal with so little player movement? Could be that Poreda has more to fine tune [iIRC, didn't his secondary pitches need work] than some of the others. If this is the case, then having have success at the lower level makes sense. If he has his act together this yr, next year I'd expect him to be in W-S.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 02:00 PM) The guy just got released and apparently no contenders even want him. If the Sox released Thornton, a contender would grab him in a heartbeat. The key is, can Myers show the good stuff he's had the last few years. If so, the sox could trade Thornton for a solid contributor in the offseason [ala what the sox tried to do with Cotts]. With Logan already replacing Thornton in the 7th, 8th innings, vs. lefties and righties, Thornton could be moved. If Thornton can't get lefties out, he certainly won't be the sox LOGGY. Better to get some value for Matt now if the sox think he's been solved by the league. [Which in a radio interview, he said guys this year are swinging at his pitches, when last year they were waiting for him to throw a strike due to rep for wildness].

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 12:52 AM) A 38 year old LOOGY who can't get out left hand hitters anymore who evidently no contending teams wanted for league minimum. This really is a ridiculous signing. It makes a lot of sense when you look at this--- http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5650 Thornton could be moved for a decent player, and be replaced with Myers, if Myers does decent. He's a had a track record vs. lefties over his career--moreso than Thornton.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) One thing: I hate to say it as someone who's been a big supporter of his for a long time, but I'm at the point where I'm just sick and tired of seeing Juan Uribe. With the Dye signing, you won't have to see uribe around much longer. No way is Uribe worth $5 mill. His option will be declined.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox19.article According to Cowley, Dye and Hunter had expressed the desire to play together. And that Mark and Jermaine had been told of some big plans by Kenny to improve the club. I'm not sure exactly how Hunter could be afforded. Granted, he'd look nice in CF. But you're talking moving 2 SP's, Crede, and Uribe. And Hunter is likely looking at a 4, 5 yr deal, for at least $12 mill. per.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 01:52 AM) I hate that statement so freaking much. Why do they have to be power guys? Sure, you'd like to have power from your corner OF's, but if you get power from 1B, 2B, SS, LF, and a few other places possibly, you don't need to 2 power guys in the OF. Because teams in the NL need to have power from key spots with the weak #8 hitters and the pitchers spot [typically, power comes from the corners on the IF and OF]. Though Rollins has showed some power at SS, he hasn't had power numbers in the past. And Utley has hit for power at 2b. The Phils have weak production at 3B and RF. It probably depends on if the Phils re-sign Rowand if they deal Bourn. I could see the Phils being interested in Crede.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 01:45 AM) It looks to me that the Phillies are going to let Rowand go and probably have Bourne in CF to replace him. They probably will try to re-sign Rowand. The Phils also could use Shane Victorino in CF. Victorino and Bourn aren't power guys. One of the 2 OFers along with Burrell should have some power.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) From the sox side, a 2 yr deal with the 3rd year a team option makes sense. Dye probably wants a 3 yr deal. With Thome probably retiring after 2009, the sox could use Dye at DH in 2010 that 3rd year. Am I good or what? B)

I like Dye for the next two years. $11 mill per is the going rate. I could see Kenny going hard after Michael Bourn of the Phils. Though he's not a sure thing, Bourn seems a better bet than Owens for CF. And the sox have some arms in Sisco, Masset and Aardsma that the Phils would probably take a pass on. With Dye locked up, the sox need some low cost, high yield type position players.

Here's the peice on Fields: On the hot corner: With the specter of Joe Crede's 2008 return from back surgery hovering over the White Sox, some speculation has arisen as to Fields moving to left field next season to keep his potent bat in the lineup. Judging by Williams' comments Thursday, though, Fields will be staying at third for at last the remainder of the 2007 campaign. "Josh needs to focus on third base," Williams said. "He has shown me that he obviously can hit here. I know it doesn't seem this way because we're used to Joe Crede, but I watch 29 other teams as well, and Josh handles himself well at third base. "It's a tough decision, because you don't want to shortcut his development at third base when there are still so many questions on whether or not Joe's going to come back and come back in the fashion that he was before. So you can very well find yourself in a situation where you move one guy out, then you try to bring him back in if the other guy can't do it, and you cut off your nose to spite your face." Fields maintains a focus on solely what he has to handle during a given game, a plan working for the American League rookie leader in home runs. "I'm trying my best and learning a lot of things and getting great experience," Fields said. "I'm taking that and I want to do good now, but I have a long ways to go. I'm young and have to remind myself [of that]." ----IMO, this says Josh will get more experience playing 3b in the bigs this year. Yet he may very well go to the OF in spring. Josh is probably the long term 3bman of this club, and needs more PT there. And he could start at 3b if Crede isn't ready opening day 2008. Yet the smartest move is temporarily moving Fields in order to get the most out of Crede--to win in 2008 and possibly in a trade. A healthy Joe is worth far more to the sox [via trade or production] than a guy coming right out of back surgery.

QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 13, 2007 -> 05:16 AM) After only one Contreras start this season, I started a thread asking if his effective career was over. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but toot toot. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...=57807&st=0 In your own words after his 1st start---"I never said he was done. In fact, I said the opposite." Did you also think his career was over on May 21, 2007, when Jose was 4-4 with a 3.71 ERA? Jose still has major league stuff, from what he showed in the bullpen vs. Sea-the kind of stuff that made him the best sox pitcher through most of 2005 and 2006.

Here's Bourgeois' writeup from Baseball America's 2004 prospect handbook, where he was Texas' #8 prospect: 'Bourgeois was among the top hitters in the high class a Cal league when he was promoted to AA. He was sidelined briefly w/ a bruised hand, but that wasn't enough to prevent him from posting career highs in most offensive categories. At 5 foot 9, Bourgeois draws comparisons to athletic sparkplugs such as Ray Durham and Eric Young. He packs surprising sock despite his stature and started finding the gaps more regularly last yr. He turns in consistent AB's and has improved his strike zone judgement. He has the quickness and speed to steal bases w/ a high success rate. Drafted as a SS, Bourgeois made the fulltime switch to 2b last season. He shows good anticipation on grounders and has an average arm, but overall is just a fringe average defender. After a strong Arizona fall league performance, Bourgeois will return to AA to begin 2004. His prfile mirrors Durham's through the same point of development, and Bourgeois has all the intangibles and passion to continue on the same path.'

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 13, 2007 -> 03:19 AM) No reason we need a vet in the pen. The pen is doing better lately + this team isn't that good. We need more than some setup guy to take this team to the next level. We need a plethora of new talent. Mark my words, the sox will add a proven, solid vet to the bullpen this offseason. And the most likely route is via trade as free agency doesn't have "that" guy. MacDougal is too big an injury risk and the others are inexperienced. The bullpen is on a nice run. Yet for Kenny to stand pat and not add to the current mix, would be a huge mistake. A team like TB or Pitt. could take on Sisco + Aardsma for example and trade one of their high priced relievers like Wheeler [TB] or Torres [Pitt.].

A few thoughts: *Sisco, along with Masset or Aardsma [both of whom are out of options] could very well be part of a larger deal that help the sox net a solid contributor--either a vet for the bullpen or a position player prospect. *If the sox are convinced he's turned the corner, and could compete for the 5th starters' spot in 2008, they should hold onto him. *Broadway, IMO, has more value to the sox. He could land in the rotation or in the bullpen. Sisco is likely only a SP for the sox at this point.

Looking at the roster next year, Bourgeois could find himself a spot. He could be the RH compliment to Owens in LF and CF and to Richar at 2B. With Ozuna around to play SS and 3b, Cintron would be gone.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Dye could get 4 on the open market (no problem at all). I think the Sox will go 3 years. With the DH option for Dye on that 3rd year, a 3 yr deal doesn't sound bad at all.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) If he finds his form, he still isn't worth $10 mill a year, when the Sox have glaring holes at short and in the OF. Dump him for salary. If he regains his form, he's worth $10 mill a year, as he could put up better numbers than probably Javy and Garland who'd be more expensive. The question is could the sox fill those holes by trading another SP, and would they. The sox though cannot and probably won't spend close to $50 mill on the rotation alone.