beck72

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 23, 2007 -> 11:01 PM) I think I actually like Cruz more than Lyon, but he's going to have control problems too, and that's something I think the organization should be/are looking to avoid right now. Regardless, if they won't give up a middle reliever for a starter, then I really dont think they'd be interested in the first place. I'm not all that big on Cruz--esp. for the control issues. But I can see AZ wanting to include him. The sox would have to add another bullpen arm better than just Cruz this offseason for my liking though.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 23, 2007 -> 07:28 PM) So how impossible would it be to get Carlos Gonzalez and Tony Pena from them? If anything, just don't tell me the Sox would have to settle for Quentin and Lyon from them; as much as I like those two, that just seems a bit below Garland's value, and while I like Lyon, his stuff and numbers just don't scream "consistent setup man" like Pena's do. If I was AZ, I'd offer Juan Cruz and Gonzalez/ Quentin. Don't think they'll give up either Lyon or Pena.

QUOTE(rockren @ Oct 21, 2007 -> 09:39 PM) I would agree with your idea, however the fact that the WSox resigned guys like MB and Dye...the WSox organization is trying to win now, rather than rebuild. I do agree that a top of the order hitter would help us win now, but if we traded Garland and didn't get a guy that could possibly take his spot in the rotation- winning this year would be a very tough feat considering the opposing pitching in the AL Central. If Garland is traded, then someone like Floyd, gio or Egbert would step in, in all likelihood. Few teams are going to give up a SP who can throw in 2008 for one year of Garland. If that SP was any good, then that team would keep him and stick him in their rotation rather than deal for Jon.

QUOTE(rockren @ Oct 21, 2007 -> 04:39 AM) IF we deal Garland, we better get a capable "make the rotation" starting arm in return. If we deal Garland, IMO, the sox should get a top of the order hitter. Few teams will be willing to part with a SP better than the sox in house options, such as Gio, Floyd, Egbert. And getting a leadoff hitter or someone to get on base for the 3-6 hitters is a bigger necessity. Though I could see the sox wanting a SP prospect who is a few years away or a reliever who can help in 2008 as an added piece to the deal.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 04:57 PM) If he goes to the NL, puts up 200 innings, sub 4 ERA, and 15 wins, he's making $75-90 mill over 5-6 years. Definitely. Garland would get very rich if he went to the NL and had a season like that.

QUOTE(rockren @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 09:02 PM) Don't get me wrong- I really want Hall at Short for us. However if we were to deal Garland, we'd have to get some kind of arm back IMO. You should be able to buy low on Hall right now. With Hall's down year and the Crew having no use for him and his contract... one of our OF prospects and a failed BP arm with pep should get it done. That's a good point. The sox should get far more than Hall in a Garland trade. The Brew Crew might bite on some sox arms that are out of options/ may not help in 2008 like Masset, Sisco, Aardsma.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 11:43 PM) Rotoworld: If the Sox think Oneli will have trouble keeping the ball in the yard, he might be a good candidate to package in a trade. He's posted good numbers but they may not translate well in the Cell.

The sox prospects are off to a nice start in Arizona. The four pitchers have gone a combined scoreless 8 2/3 innings. And Ryan Sweeney is 4 for 10, hitting third and playing LF. If Sweeney is healthy, I could see him in the mix for LF--esp. if the sox can get a proven CFer.

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Oct 13, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) Thats what I thought too...It's not a secret Boras lives on the westcoast and according to guys like Bill Platchke, he and Art Moreno have some sort of male eye sex going on at home games. Boras supposedly turns and like winks at him when Vladdy get's walked and all kind of weird nonsense. Boras also goes to every home Dodger and Angel game so he has close ties to both owners which is why they suspect the Angels to be the new frontrunners. And it's not even so much he doesn't see a "20 mil player" on their roster, it's moreso that he said he has a top 3 player in baseball and is only paying him 14 mil or whatever. He said it wouldn't look right and wouldn't do that to Vlad. The money spending can always change, it seems like he has a lot of respect for Vlad and wouldn't want to pay double for Arod, that in Moreno's eyes isn't twice the player. That I can't changing. That's a good point about Vlad. Paying Arod $30 mill and the other guys "peanuts" isn't going to go over well.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 12, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) There will be enough teams with money going after all three that he'll likely get close to that. It actually isn't bad because if he's looking that there is a chance he'll end up getting a bit less. The only ugly thing is the years but given the market conditions a 4yr 13M a year type deal would be pretty solid (it would be a bit of a discount). I'm not saying it would be a smart deal but it would fit in with the current economics and if Rowand came close to this years production I would have no problem with it (note I'd drastically prefer picking up a young CFer or a cheaper CFer like Figgins). Michael Bourn of the Phillies? Though he might be too much like Owens for my tastes.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 12, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) From everything I've heard, the Angels are considered the favorites to land ARod. The Angels owner in August has been quoted as saying "I don't see a $20 million player" on their team. that Arod will likely get more than that...

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 12, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) The Angels are probably getting the short end of the deal as it is, giving either Santana or Shields; why would they then include another high ceiling arm as well? They are taking on $20 million, getting older than the Sox, and are forced to resign Garland. Why would they take on $20 million that way when they can just spend $10 mill more, get ARod, and keep Shields, Figgins, and Kotchman, especially knowing how gunshy they have been about making trades in the past? From the sox end, if they traded both Konerko and Garland separately, they should do better than Kotchman, Shields and Figgins. Another young, unproven high end arm or prospect would be about what PK and Garland would be worth. Whether it makes sense for the Angels, who knows? I could see them going after Konerko, though. The Angels do need to add an impact bat this offseason. The owner and fans will demand it, even at the expense of young players they've been so reluctant to deal in the past.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 11, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) You can't seriously want an aging Shields over Santana. He's just coming off a bad year for whatever reason. The guy has filthy filthy stuff. For what it's worth, Ervin was 2-2 with a 2.96 ERA (6 G, 4 GS) in September and October (27.1 IP, 22 H, 13 BB, 30 SO). If you take on Shields instead of Santana, you are pretty much forced to keep Contreras. If you get Santana, you'd be able to move Contreras in either a pure dump or for another similar contract (Furcal). The move from Contreras to Santana at worst is a lateral move, IMO. So in essence, you have the ability to rid yourself of 3 expensive contracts and replace them with 3 cheap contracts. You have to take Santana over Shields if given the choice. It makes much more sense. I did say I'd want Shields over Santana. Yet I also said the Angels should put in a young pitcher who could help in a year or two [that should have a higher ceiling that Santana]. That way, the Sox would be better in the short term, with the contracts for Dye, AJ and Mark showing the sox plan on competing right away. But the young pitcher would be help for the future as well. That way, both sides are covered. Santana has struggled for a few yrs now and IMO doesn't fit in the Cell with his FB tendencies.

I'd rather have Shields than Santana. Mostly because he's what the sox need from a bullpen guy. Santana may not be better than Floyd or Danks. And he's unproven for the bullpen. IIRC, Santana's a FB pitcher, too. The deal for PK and Garland would have to include a very solid minor league arm--maybe someone in AA from the Angels.

I know people like to focus on the HR's and Sb's Young put up this year. But the low avg [.237] and Uribe-esqe OBP, high K total, and 6 errors, doesn't do a lot for me. I'll take a SP like Vazquez then and I'll still take Vazquez. The sox need to acquire an OFer this offseason who can hit near .300 and get on base. And in hindsight, by all accounts, Brian Anderson was the better bet to do that than Young at the time of the trade.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 25, 2007 -> 03:18 AM) I still think Furcal is the guy to go after. He'll make $13 million next season and is certainly has to be viewed as a "bad contract" right about now. This is also his first season in his career where he's going to finish with a slugging percentage below .360. He'll be 30 next year so a bounceback isn't out of the question. The issue then would be matching who the Dodgers would want from the Sox. I wouldn't trade Garland for Furcal straight up -- I might have said that I would have a month or two ago, but not now -- and I don't think Contreras for Furcal makes sense (as much as we might hope). Furcal makes a lot of sense. The Dodgers will be stuck with Pierre's bad contract. So getting rid of Furcal and his salary so they can add a big bat would be smart. Not sure how much they have to spend but Arod could be a big get for them--at SS or 3b.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 22, 2007 -> 08:08 PM) I don't know where to find the splits, but I'm 99% sure that during his minor league career, his tendency has been to struggle early and then adjust. Maybe later I will look for a post on SSS backing me up, as I seem to remember Cheat having a post or three about it. I was looking at his first stops of each year, going back to 2003, in which he threw much better. Then he struggled in the higher level. I remember seeing/ hearing that he made some adjustments after his initial promotions. Yet his "2nd half" numbers have been worse across the board since he's been a pro. My point was in reference made that the sox might not be high on Danks. For a guy who had only 70 innings of AAA under his belt, Danks threw very well the first three months of this year. And surprised many that he stayed up when many thought he'd be in Charlotte after only a start or two. Instead of being a disappointment to the sox, he should be considered a pleasant surprise. Esp. when no one thought he'd be helping the sox at all in 2007 coming into this year. IMO, the sox should be able to pencil in Danks as a solid, reliable #4 for 2008. And a trade of Garland or Contreras this offseason would only cement that view.

HBP is a big factor for a leadoff guy like Reed Johnson, who might be available this offseason--probably for a reasonable price. http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2007...517163-sun.html The sox have few internal options for a #1 or a #2 hitter-both huge sox needs. Free agency looks weak. It's going to take a few trades to get the necessary peices. I know he'll be a bit of risk following his surgery--much like Crede. The sox could acquire Johnson, saying they'll play him in CF, and have Fields in LF and Joe in 3b during spring. Joe proves he's healthy to other teams, then move him. I give Fields credit for moving to LF, and not having a drop off at the plate. Yet his long term future is probably at 3b for the sox as soon as 2009.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 11:44 PM) DA is right here. Danks' minor league history was the complete opposite of what he did this year with the Sox. In the minors he struggled for the first couple months before adjusting and finishing strong. To Danks' credit he's always pitched in hitters' leagues or this year, a hitters park. The stats say the opposite, from each of his stops in his 4 yrs in the minors. As he's moved up later in the year, he's struggled. It could be fatigue, as Danks needs his control to be effective. If he doesn't hit his spots, or walks guys, he gives up more runs. For Danks, his walks were up in the first half, and his K's up in the 2nd half. Yet he gave up a lot more hits in the 2nd half. This may be to the coaches telling him to not walk guys. Danks hasn't in the 2nd half. Yet the balls he's been throwing up there have been getting hit hard. He's been aggressive, going after hitters. but the results haven't been there.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) We also get the story that he struggles at the beginning. Now he fades at the end? That's not what you want if you plan on playoff baseball. The White Sox may be happy they have Danks but aren't pleased that he became a 4 or 5 inning 100 pitch guy that had to be shutdown the last month of the season. If Danks struggles next spring and the Sox have someone who does well, Danks very well could see Charlotte. Ozzie is taking a new approach next spring, the games are going to mean more, and he wants to win them. Young guys without a decent track record of major league success will have to perform to make the team. Danks is probably penciled in to a rotation spot, and should improve on his 2007 season. But its not a given that he improves or that he is in the 2008 rotation. Danks has done well at his first stops in the minors, at the start of the year. Then has faded. I remember from stories and the stats back that up, going back to his first stop in 2003. At the start of each of his years, his BB/9 rate was down and increased. And his K/9 was higher then decreased. I don't have the splits for this year, but for Danks 4 years in the minors this held true. this makes sense. Danks doesn't hit his sopts, he gets hit hard. As he tires as the year goes on, he's not as sharp. As he was young for every level of the minors, maybe this wasn't a concern. But if it happens every year in the bigs....I get the feeling the sox think he can make the adjustments necessary to pitch a full year in the bigs in the future w/o being shut down for the last month. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/John-Danks.shtml Danks threw very well at the start of the year, esp for a 21 yr old. If he struggled like you said, he would have been back in AAA. Does he have things to work on? sure. If the sox trade Garland or Contreras, they certainly pencil in Danks for a spot in the rotation. That's not to say if Danks struggles he wouldn't be sent to AAA. But the sox would have to be pretty sure on Danks for the 4th spot, with Floyd for #5 [and Gio/ Egbert for 1st call ups] if a vet starter is traded.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 08:13 PM) In some ways, I think the Sox are more confident in Floyd. You just get the vibe that they're very disappointed in the development of Danks throughout the course of the year, particularly in terms of his mound presence and competitiveness. I don't get that vibe at all. By all accounts, the sox point to a guy like Danks as the model for young pitchers in what they're looking for. And seem pretty happy about how he's developed this year. I just think the sox are trying to protect his arm, as he's young. If you look at his minor league career, danks has faded as the year goes on.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) Contreras will be back in 2008. Most GMs will be calling about Garland since he much younger. Im guessing it will be Buerhle, Vazquez, ?, Contreras, Floyd. I really think Danks will benefit after a season in triple-a. I expect KW to go after a decent #3 via free agency... maybe take a chance on Schilling, Rogers, Colon or even bring back Garcia to a 1 year deal w/ a club option. Danks will be our call-up starter just like McCarthy was in 2005 as El-duque was often injured. Its definitley encouraging to see Contreras pitch well these last 4 games. You can count Danks in the rotation, unless he's hurt. The sox seem to have far more doubts about Floyd, though he seems to be changing some minds. Those guys you mentioned [except Freddy] will come with a $10 mill price tag. If anything the sox want to shed salary in the rotation, not add to it.

I see the sox trading for Furcal. Esp. if they think Furcal will sign a 3, 4 yr deal after 2008. He's making too much for LA and they have Hu probably ready. A deal like Contreras and Crede might be to their liking, as LA needs some power while improving their defense]. Furcal is owed $13 mill for 2008, and a bonus check for $4 mill in 2009. Or maybe LA would go for a deal of say Crede, and two arms [pick from Aardsma, Sisco and Masset] for Furcal. Furcal shouldn't be that hard to acquire. Then the sox could move Garland to another team to shore up the bullpen, maybe someone for LF, and salary relief. With Furcal on board for SS and to hit leadoff [and Crede part of the trade], Fields would go back to 3B. With Crede's $5 mill, Uribe's $5 mill. and Garland's $12 mill off the books, the sox could still afford to sign Rowand for CF. So the lineup would look like: 1. Furcal-SS 2. Rowand-CF 3. Thome-DH 4. PK-1B 5. Dye-RF 6. AJ-C 7. Fields-3b 8. Richar-2b 9. Owens/ a better option via trade in a Garland deal, such as Michael Bourn-LF

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:09 PM) Just because Byrnes took that deal does not mean that that is the best deal Mr. Byrnes could have gotten on the open market. I'm just saying Rowand is more likely to get closer to Byrnes money than Hunter money.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 04:00 PM) Aaron Rowand will be offered quite a bit more than 3/$30 by several teams. That's probably a $20 million or more hometown discount you'd be talking about. Rowand's numbers are almost identical to Byrnes--hence the same type of contract.