beck72

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 07:55 AM) I really think Contreras has more value than you are giving him credit for. He's not going to get you a top propsect, but he will get you two serviceable players with potential to become MLB players someday. And Jack Wilson is really flat out terrible. A healthy Contreras is very valuable, I agree. Yet his drop in velocity and recent decline suggest he's hurt. Few teams will even give two serviceable prospects unless he shows something in the 2nd half. Esp. with the money Jose's owed the next two years. Wilson at least gives better Ab's then Uribe--though he's more expensive. Khalil Greene's name is being mentioned as a Sox target. Wilson is along the same vein as Greene---good glove, more consistent bat than Uribe.

My trade suspects: Mackowiak, Contreras, Dye, Iguchi and Thornton.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 04:49 AM) Kenny saying "buyer's mode" is different than a GM like Omar Minaya saying the Mets are in "buyers mode". I'm taking this to mean that if (or, more appropriatey, when) Kenny trades Dye, Iguchi and/or Contreras, he's looking for young players who can step in and play within the next year. I think he feels that he's built up a strong enough rotation to where the Sox won't have to go through a total "rebuilding" mode, so he wants guys like Richar who, at the very least, will be competing for a spot in 2008. I don't take this to mean the Sox will be offering Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney for Ken Griffey in an effort to save 2007. Exactly. KW might trade some prospects or players. Yet it won't be for a 3 month rental. It might be for say a veteran bullpen arm who's under contract for 08 or young player ready to step in a position of need like SS or the OF.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 12:30 AM) I think you will be surprised and there will only be a couple mill difference in money between the two and at that rate I'm taking Hunter who is hands down the better and more consistent player. But if I were wrong and Rowand would take less money than I think he'll get offered (I think someone goes as high as 9 million over 4 years) than I would be happy with that. Hunter should sign for 13 mill and Rowand around 6, 7 mill. Hunter's making $12 mill this year and Rowand less than $5 mill [4.75?]

Just to add, Fields should get a look in LF. His bat looks major league ready so they need to find a spot other than 3b [at least for 2008]. If not this year then in winter ball, mostly because Crede shouldn't be going anywhere and will be at 3b. He's likely to recover and the sox shouldn't waive him. He's more valuable to the sox because no team will take a chance on him enough to offer a decent deal for him.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 12:56 AM) I don't think the Sox are going to go after a second baseman this winter. It looks like the Richar move was made with Richar being viewed as the future second baseman. So far he hasn't dissappointed, and although he doesn't have the track record (prior this season) to back it up, I'm not seeing any other better option. I don't really want Iguchi back and I wouldn't be a fan of giving Castillo a three-four year deal as his power appears to be completely sapped and I can't see him keeping that .355ish OBP up for too much longer. -If the Sox are going to go after a cheaper OF option (the people not named Ichiro, Torii or Andruw) I'd look at Milton Bradley. He's not going to command as much money as any of the other outfielders -- he'll get less money and years than Rowand, too -- and he seems like the type of player that Kenny would go after. I think Rowand is pretty much a lock to sign with the sox. The sox know what they're getting and Aaron would likely sign a reasonable contract. I think Richar will be looked at as a SS option as well. If he can't play SS then he'll be given a shot at 2b. If a team will take Iguchi for a prospect, then the sox could give Richar an extended look. Castillo though is an option, only if he'll go for 2 years and a 3rd year team option. His small ball style would complement Thome and PK well. And he could hit leadoff or #2.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 12:19 AM) Unless we're somehow going to get Joe Nathan or Ichiro (or I guess A-Rod) we're likely going to be better off getting 2 or 3 players instead of one. Adding a group like Luis Castillo, Jose Guillen, and Dan Miceli would probably help more than just getting Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter in our case. Well put. The sox will likely go for a few guys who have something to prove [a one year contract with an option year], and try for a few solid, proven guys like Castillo and even Rowand then spend all the money on one guy.

While everyone expects Contreras to be traded, his value is next to nothing. And even then, the sox would have to pony up some cash to unload him. Or the sox will have to trade bad contracts [which may not be a bad idea--say Jack Wilson and Pittsburgh]. I guess one of the teams in playoff contention may take a flier on Jose, provided he has a few decent starts before the 31st. If not, teams will think he's hurt and will stay away from him. I'd expect Jose to see some time on the DL if he gets lit up after the ASB. If Jose gets some time off, and has a 2nd half ala Freddy in 2006, then trade him in the offseason. But as of now, he likely won't be going anywhere.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 12:09 AM) For the differences in money, I would rather have Aaron Rowand in CF next year... I agree. The difference would likely be $6 mill per year. If Ichiro can't be signed by the sox [which his signing would be a longshot at best, though Hunter will be closer to Ichiro money than Rowand would be to Hunter money] I'd like to see Rowand signed. He could give the sox both power and some speed [which the sox definitely need].

I'm not that worried about the bullpen. In the 2nd half, the sox should be auditioning everyone from the minors from AA and AAA as bullpen guys for 2008. This should include the best relievers [such as Oneli Perez, Francisco Hernandez Jr. as well as starters with little chance for the big league rotation, such as Haeger, Heath Philips, etc]. Some of the best relievers have been journeymen/ failed starters. I'd much rather try out some minor leagues in the 2nd half then spend $5 mill a yr for 3, 4 yrs on some washed up has been. Not to mention the sox should be able to count on one or two of Massett, Sisco, Aardsma or MacDougal helping in 2008.

As the sox should be looking for guys who can play in the majors this year, Michael Bourn of the Phillies could be an option in a deal for Thornton. The Phils can't afford having both Bourn and Victorino playing in the OF next year. QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) Do you think he could bring back a really good relief pitcher ? The Sox could use one of those. The sox should be looking to a position player prospect if they deal Thornton. if a team is looking for decent reliever like thornton, they likely won't part with another good reliever--even one that could help next year. QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) I think at this point the Sox just need to keep the bullpen they have and let them figure everything out. Aardsma was terrific in April and then broke down, Boone is living up the hype that he came in with last season, McDougal is having a terrible year, but he has had too much success in the past to give up on him now. I think that they just need to worry about fixing what we have rather than giving up pieces in trades for relief pitching. If nothing works out you can sign some FA relievers in the offseason and make some trades then, but at this point I just keep sending them out there and let them figure it out. If we keep losing it brings us closer to Pedro Alvarez next June. Ozzie isn't going to keep sending the same guys out there and let the guys have ERA's close to 10.00. the fans will be screaming. The sox would be better off putting in Charlotte's or Birmingham's bullpen out there then keep the guys they have. Some guys have to be moved to make room for guys like Oneli Perez to audition for bullpen spots in 2008. I'd expect at least one guy who's performing OK could be moved if the sox could get a decent return.

Would you trade Thornton? With Logan looking pretty solid, would Thornton get a good enough return in a trade? Esp. as he just signed a 3 yr deal, and he gets more expensive in '08 and '09 [only making 550 k this yr]. Relievers are notorious for being one yr wonders. And if Thornton can't get lefties out, [they're hitting over .300 vs. him this yr] why get stuck with a big contract for the next two years? If Thornton could net the sox a B+ prospect, some teams 6th-10th best prospect, I'd bite.

Lately, Aardsma had a batting practice fastball with no movement. And he couldn't get a breaking ball over for a strike--ot when he did, it rollled up there. It was tough to see. Especially after how good he looked at the beginning of the year. At least Neal Cotts has been just as bad.

From today's suntimes--No 'no-trade clause' for Contreras "Last week at Tampa Bay, right-hander Jose Contreras said he would waive his no-trade clause if the Sox wanted to deal him. But according to the organization, Contreras' trade-clause option ran out in November 2006. That means the Sox can move him to whichever team they want. Contreras is rumored to be sought by the New York Mets, Atlanta Braves and Los Angeles Dodgers." http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...soxnt02.article

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) It was around noon. He contacted Buehrle's agent only after the Score reported a deal was close to done. That's different then. Of course, Berry could be playing coy and non-committal. Or Levine misinterpreted the agent's comments.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) Levine talked to Buehrle's agent who said no new negotiations have taken place. I'd be interested to know when Bruce last talked with Mark's agent. If this morning, then put away the part favors. If a day or two ago, then ....

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 06:23 PM) Except 1000 is getting their report directly from Buehrle's agent. Is that what ESPN 1000 is reporting? I didn't see that posted

I would go with the news being reported on the Sox flagship station over the other sports radio station in town. They're more likely to have some inside news after being with them over the last two yrs.

I think the fact that if idiots like us can see how much sense this makes, KW will make it happen. Esp. given how much Kenny wants the sox to win, with comments about how the thought of trading away players who helped win in 2005 makes him "sick".

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) I didn't mean to hold his hand, necessarily, I just meant that it would be easier for both of them AND would help with the Japanese press. Seattle has a HUGE Japanese population, more than Chicago, at least, but with both of them here, this would raise the stakes for the Japanese press to cover the White Sox and might keep Ichiro at the top of the heap...at least more so than if he went to KC or Milwaukee. I was just being sarcastic. I think winning should be most important to Ichiro at this point in his career in the US. If I was him, I'd want my team for the next 4,5 years to be competing for the playoffs each year. Signing Mark would be a big step towards that.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Vaz would get more than Count. Although, I think Vaz is worth keeping around. We'll see. I agree. Though I could see a scenario where someone offers a deal KW can't refuse for Vaz, ala BMac, where Vaz's replacement could put up a similar ERA in 2008. Vaz may not be suited for the Cell.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:25 PM) Bingo! Although Ichiro...not so much. I don't think they will spend the money on him... If they do plan on going after him, though, do you think about keeping Iguchi? (didn't mean to derail the thread) It's related. A Mark signing would mean the sox needing to get competitive for 2008. And that means free agents or trades for major leaguers not A ball prospects. I don't think a Ichiro signing would depend on Iguchi being here. I don't think Ichiro needs Tad here to hold his hand. I think the sox would or should target Luis Castillo for 2b. He could hit leadoff or #2, w/o sacrificing defense. And give the sox better offense.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:14 PM) Just beware that if we sign Mark, which I REALLY hope we do, we are probably going to have to trade 1 or 2 other starters. And that can be any combination of Contreras, Vazquez and Garland. Now, I'm sure Contreras is the one that all of us can agree on, but don't rule out Garland being shipped out. He probably would have more suitors and would get a better return than Vazquez...if only because Garland has been pretty consistent since 2005 and Vazquez has been a bit up and down. I hope we have a rotation of MB/JG/JV/JD and one of Floyd/Masset/Gonzalez next year, but, if this breaking story tells you something, it's that anything can happen. If both Count and Vaz are traded because of MArk's re-signing, the sox would have to get one or more top SP prospects that are able to pull a Danks and step into the 2008 rotation right away. But more likely only one of the Count or Vaz would be dealt.

A Buehrle re-signing would show everyone that the sox aren't going to blow the whole team up--that they plan on being competitive for the next 4-5 years. That's important to the players, us fans, and potential free agents [only one I care about--Ichiro]. QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) would love to jetison Vaz and Count for some infield or pen help, then see a push to sign Zambrano in the off season, setting up an awesome rotation next season - Zambrano, Buehrle, Garland, Danks/Floyd/Gio. Yuck. Not going to happen.

That would be the best news yet out of a horrible season. Building the rotation around Mark and his best friend Garland makes all the sense in the world.