beck72

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 07:29 PM) People thought it was risky when he brought in AJ? Kenny Williams would never bring in such a despicable human being. I haven't seen his rap sheet. But is he truly a despicable person? Can you link me to somewhere that has his troubles recorded. No need. Here's a link. You're right. http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid40882.aspx

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 05:59 PM) Substitute some names, and this quote could be from Kenny. Something will happen between these two clubs because they are both looking for something, anything, on June 1, and their GMs sound desperate. A Crede trade would certainly shake things up. The way Fields has been hitting, it may be more than a lateral move. And it would send some shock waves through the clubhouse, and get Fields the needed playing time to see if he could be the young hitter the sox can build around.

In the short term, the sox might have to bite the bullet and deal for a guy like Dukes. Acquiring immediate talent comes with a price--either in prospects which could hurt the team in the long run. Or at the price of getting a guy of questionable character. The hole the sox are in now, getting Dukes who plays hard on the field yet has big time off the field issues might be worth it

I'm not sure if this name has been thrown out there, but Chone Figgins could probably be had for a minimal price. He's struggling almost as worse as any Sox. But he's a decent bet to turn it around. and versatile enough to fill in a lot of spots the sox could use--LF, CF, IF. Getting him should be worth a shot at redeeming the sox season. Yet it wouldn't cost any part of the sox future.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 06:15 AM) I posted here a while back a snippet that said that the Giants want Crede. Perhaps they're looking at a complementing component to a deal or scouting Crede more throroughly. Crede makes a lot of sense for the Giants. They could use his glove and his bat as his numbers start to improve. If the sox think Fields is ready now, why not. As long as the return for Joe is decent. Though the guy could be traded as a PTBN as he was drafted in 2006, the giants have a SS in the SAL named Burriss who is a top of the order guy with speed to burn. He's also rated as their best IF defender. Burriss started in high A and was dropped down.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:03 AM) The time to act was in the offseason. There was little done to help this big league roster...a roster that looked dead tired all during the 2nd half last year. KW's inability to get major league ready talent for Garcia really hurt. I'm not sure how much it matters though....the Tigers/Indians are much more talented than we are, and they have younger legs. If Liriano can return for the Twins next year, there's no way you can project the Sox higher than 4th place for the next few seasons. What deals should have been made? And exactly what deal was better than what the sox got from Philly? People may bash that with Floyd not looking good. But I haven't heard many other deals talked about that would have helped this sox team improve this .500 ballclub.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ May 28, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) Gonzales is coming back per Trib. Trib I just remember how slow his bat looked against the Tigers. Still only speculation from the article.

Anyone else notice that Josh Fields was at SS the last two games-games that Kenny Williams was in attendance?

Sweeney for Ozuna. Bukvich or Floyd for Sisco.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 27, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) Well I blame the Sox brass for not taking this route in the 1st place in terms of making him into a starter when they acquired him especially after he looked last season. He may look bad right now, which is why I think it's just worth taking the long - term route with him and stretching him out, which is what he actually wanted when we acquired him. He hasn't shown any success being a lefty reliever for us, so why not try a different role for him? Control wise is a big issue of course, but we've seen similar sort of pitchers like Thornton do a lot better, so there's arguments for keeping him as a reliever also. We'll see which way it goes. I don't blame the sox. Sisco did well in the bullpen in 2005 for KC. If he would have put up those same numbers this year, the sox pen would have been in good shape.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ May 20, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) I don't believe in the future of this organization. I believe we're going to go cheap after this year and will suck because we don't know how to develop talent or draft it. I hold out slim hopes that the scouting department is going to genuinely change but I won't believe it until I see it. One thing this organization does very well is recognize the major talent they have and retain it. And recognize who may not pan out and get value in return, be they guys in the majors or minors. They could have given up on any numbers of players like Crede, Garland. The sox have problems in the players they have drafted. Esp. in position players. Yet the fixes are a ways off. Still, the pitching should be coming which will keep the sox in contention.

Am I missing something or isn't Garland signed through 2008? My prediction: Jon or Mark [or both] will be signed to a long term extension. Contreras is more likely to be dealt, esp. if Mark is signed.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 20, 2007 -> 02:33 PM) Long-term, those contracts will catch up with them, especially for Soriano. Short-term, they did what they had to do to bring the momentum back to their side. And I would still be saying that, if we were looking to sweep them this afternoon. They're simply in a much easier division, and the Brewers are the same number of games up on the Cubs that the Tigers and Indians are on us, except we all know how good those Tigers and Indians teams are. After a team loses 90 games they should work to "bring some momentum back to their side". The sox are trying to win in the AL central, not the NL central. IMO, they are well positioned to do that. The cubs should win w/ the cash they've spent. IMO, they won't.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ May 20, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) I read this article and just shook my head. Imagine if the Sox kept most of these guys. Phil would be writing about how KW wasn't aggressive and allowed this team to get old and expnsive. Bob Agreed. Not to mention the fan base being up in arms when the sox would have probably have lost 90 games for a few years after the old guys break down. The sox have older position players. The only way a team breaks them in is if they don't have playoff aspirations. Yet the sox have been able to get younger pitching and still contend. Rogers, Mariotti and the like act like the Sox broke up a dynasty in the making. The 2005 sox won and were built in 2006 to repeat. No one could have expected them to win in 2007 and beyond with the same group that won in 2005. Yet that is essentially what their gripes point to.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 20, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) I'm sure if you broke down 2006 into three segments (April/May...June/July...August/Sept.) you would see the incremental drop-off, followed by the sheer cliff drop into an abyss or chasm from which we can't seem to extricate ourselves without going outside the organization. We can't go out and get a couple of veteran/proven relievers and add a hitter or two without sacrificing our future. Who could we possibly trade off our current 25 man roster that wouldn't hurt us just as much as helping us. Which leaves the only move trading Gio Gonzalez or Adam Russell, and MAYBE Fields. If we do that now, why wouldn't we done it in 2006 when it might have been enough to spark that offense back to life? That team was arguably in a much better position to get to the playoffs than the 2007 White Sox are. I'm not a Mariotti fan by ANY stretch, but his harping about letting the Cubs take the city back and how KW missed a golden opportunity in 2006 was spot-on. Maybe the only thing he's been right about in 5-10 years. A few things: Maybe I missed the poor pitching by both the bullpen and starters that essentially tanked the sox 2006 preseason hopes. That difference maker bat was never available last year or in the offseason [what other team besides the yanks improved much at the deadline?]. The sox need a 1-4 type young hitter to build around. Though signing a guy like Ichiro for 4, 5 years could work just as well. That would open up things for the power guys like PK and Thome. And allow the young guys like Sweeney, Fields and Anderson to work themselves into the league. But when the sox key hitters like PK, Dye, Iguchi, Crede, AJ, Uribe all can't hit at the same time, all the deals in the world won't help them win. Most of those bats will wake up. Hopefully in time for the sox to go on a run with the pitching. If not, it'll be a long summer. Who really cares about taking the city and Mariotti? Making the playoffs on a year in year out basis is the only thing that matters. The sox weren't made for a dynasty after 2005. But KW did improve the 2006 team with Thome and Javy. And he has now positioned the sox to win each year with the pitching. The Cubs aren't important. If they want to spend $400 million who cares? The long term outlook for the cubs is dreadful. They'll be saddled with horrible contracts and be unable to fill glaring holes. The sox should be far more consistent, win more games in the reg. season and playoffs in the next decade than the Cubs--which is all that matters.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 20, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) And we're last in the American League in runs scored since that point in time...coincidence, I think not? I've been e-mailing him these pre and post ASB comparisons (#1 offense in first half, #9 in 2nd half of 06, last in 07) and perhaps we are all coming around to this viewpoint that we're an average team. We've all been holding on too long to the idea we have too much talent not to go on a tear and get to 15-20 games over .500, as we did in 2005 and the first three months in 06. Those days are gone for at least 2-3 years, I'm afraid. Our pitching has been fine during that time period, Jenks had some problems down the stretch last year, but it was our offense that has killed us (largely) during this new epoch in Sox baseball. Combine that with the shaky bullpen in April-June of 06 and our 9 blown saves (already in 07), resulting directly in 6 losses, and we're pretty much screwed. We can be incredibly proud of our 163-90 stretch of baseball from April of 05 through July of 06 (including the playoffs), it might never be matched again in White Sox history for all we know. That's too simplistic. The sox offense wasn't the cause of their problems in the 2nd half of 2006. Sure they didn't hit as well as in the 1st half. Yet they were 9th in runs scored, 12th in avg, 13th in OBP, 2nd in SLG and 2nd in HR's Post ASB in 06. This year, they are last in everything except HR's which they are 8th. Now is the problem the sox are too old, they are washed up and need to be dismantled? the sox do need to get younger/ different type hitters while still being productive. But if they can't hit come the deadline, yes, trade some pieces. But they started well both in 2005 and 2006. They deserve a chance to get their bats to awaken. Anyway, what is the alternative until the deadline? There were few deals to be made in the offseason that could have helped the sox get younger/ faster/ more productive. What deals could have been made other teams wanted outrageous bounties, such as for Baldelli. Or guys like Pierre, Roberts or Matthews might help in the short term but will probably be huge mistakes in the near future. All this is going to take time to sort out, unless the sox tank and go 10 games under by the break, which I don't see happening. If they are around a playoff birth, I'd expect some deals to be made to improve their chances. KW sees as well as us fans that Dye and Mark might not be around in 2008 and the time is this year to make a run for the playoffs [though at the same time that won't jeapordize the long term prospects of the sox winning]. QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 20, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) We would have been much better off adding Ichiro last year...or Abreu, or Soriano, or someone. The pitching wasn't THAT bad, it was simply Buehrle and Contreras was so-so, but Garland and Vazquez pitched very well in the 2nd half (no wins for Javier to show for his efforts) and Garcia was also hit and miss, not pitching well until the Sox were pretty much out of it. Ichiro wasn't available. Abreu only plays RF and wound't have replaced Dye. And Soriano should only play DH. The deals to improve the offense were only available on X box. IMO, it's far too early to count the offense out. They are more likely to improve than not. The deals to improve the pitching were made and in some cases, not made. Both the starters and the bullpen look in better shape.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 20, 2007 -> 12:29 PM) Phil Rogers has an interesting article today. The White Sox are 54-62 since right before the ASB last season. Maybe that's where they are at and nothing much more than that can be expected from this group. I wouldn't say blow it up as the topic of this thread suggests, but I would say its time for some changes. Its doesn't look like where we and the White Sox want this team to be in October is likely or even possible with the current arrangement. The 2006 Post ASB sox and the 2007 sox are not having the same problems. For Rogers and us to say they are the same sub .500 team and not much better isn't right. Both had/ have bullpen issues. Yet the sox did pretty well trying to get a better group in without signing guys to ridiculous contracts [MacDougal has to be included as well, as he was added in the 2nd half; And of the free agents, who really would have been better than what the sox have?]. I also expect the bullpen to come around, as they have good stuff with some success. Right now, they are hitting a very rough patch. I have more faith in the sox pen coming around. At least they aren't old, hurt or have weak stuff, like most pens around the league. The 2006 offense still hit well, not as well as in the 1st half. And the 2007 starters are doing very well, which was the biggest reason for the drop off in the 2nd half. If the sox are close around the trade deadline, I'd expect KW to make a splash to improve the team [the sox have some depth that most teams won't part with]. Just get to the playoffs and a team can win. I could see Ichiro brought in to help win now, and as a trial run for 2008. Few other teams will be willing and able to go after Ichiro. The sox are one of them.

The biggest thing is the sox failed to win a series after winning their last 4 even after playing bad ball. But blow the whole team up?! Give me a break

The sox have hit Marquis well in the past. Esp. Mack. That PK, Crede and Tad have hit him well in the few times they've seen him bodes well for the sox. They need those guys to drive in some runs. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?playerId=4409

Just what was the alternative to Podsednik in LF? How have those free agents done that were talked about--Roberts, Matthews, etc? Pods was worth the risk, IMO. Even if those guys have respectable numbers, signing one of those bums to long term deals would have been far worse than signing Pods to a 1 yr deal, even if Pods helps little in the 2nd half [which he should]. They are very likely to be considered overpaid soon. KW getting Erstad for the OF at least allowed the sox to give Sweeney a look. And Sweeney's a better option for 2007 and going forward than anything the sox could have picked up in the offseason.

For all the comparison's with last yr's poor 2nd half hitting, 2007 is nowhere close to 2006. The sox hit .271/.328/.450 post ASB. This year they're hitting .222/.301/.363. The sox bats will wake up. It's just a matter of the sox pitching [the starters, the bullpen could use improvement] staying strong. The time to make up some ground is before the ASB. June esp. looks to be a favorable schedule after a tough April and May.

Crede should bounce back. While he won't put up Arod numbers, Joe should provide some decent pop and a .270 avg. All it takes is a game like Dye had yesterday from Crede and a hit streak and people will be saying he's a guy who should be locked up long term. Joe shouldn't be going anywhere this yr if the sox are truly in the running for the playoffs. Though an offseason deal is probable as Fields should be ready in '08.

Sweeney should stick around. At least until Pods comes back.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 13, 2007 -> 12:16 PM) Very well...and I'll continue to say that we're not in that top or elite group with Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, and possibly the Yankees and Angels. We're very similar to the A's, if I had to make a comparison. I didn't think Minnesota would struggle this badly. They will give it another month, but they have the same issue with Torii Hunter we have with Buehrle and Dye. Our offense is still the worst in the AL after the last 2/3rd's of a season. It's difficult to argue with that measuring stick. We're 4th in pitching, ERA-wise. I doubt we can be first, but we need to stay 3-5 in that area and get our hitting/runs scored somewhere around 7-10th in the AL to have any chance. Are we closer to being an "elite" team or a rebuilding team? I would say the latter. It's unfortunate, because we have the makings of a great bullpen, to go with our strong starting pitching. Crede, Konerko, Erstad, Dye and Iguchi have looked really bad recently. Iguchi, Crede and Konerko are all huge question marks to me. We can't win without at least two of those three guys hitting. We don't have anything close to resembling prospects at SS or 2B. The jury's out on Anderson and Fields as well, at best. What we do have is lots of pitching prospects, and the more legit prospects you have, the higher the odds that one or two will actually make it and become members of the rotation. I'm encouraged that Honel seems to coming back onto the radar screen as a prospect, and Danks has impressed nearly everyone. We went through a 167-95 stretch of play in 2005 and 2006 (until the All-Star break). We would have won 105 games last year if continued to play like we did in the first half (best offense in the AL). Obviously that didn't happen, for a number of reasons. Since then, we're 51-56. That's an incredible drop-off in the level of play. Which is the prevailing trend? Well, we'll find out in the next 6 weeks, but having KC simply hand us four games out of four doesn't mean we're a good team or that anything is "fixed." The sox bullpen is young and isn't going anywhere. The starting pitching is strong and should still be there. With those two key ingredients, the sox won't be "rebuilding" any time soon. If your beef is with the offense, that is easier to fix year in and year out than the pitching. Spend some offseason cash on Ichiro and he'd solidify the top of the order for the next 4, 5 yrs. But the hitters the sox have will hit. It's just a matter of the pitching holding up.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 5, 2007 -> 12:24 PM) Bringing in another hitting coach is not going to make the White Sox predominantly gap hitters. If the personnel doesn't change the offense and its approach will stay the same. The offense will not remain this weak the entire season. You can only hope they don't put themselves in a hole they cannot get out of before they breakout. Well said. The sox have veteran hitters. No hitting coach in the world is going to change these guys. Walker or any hitting coach can only hope to make slight adjustments to their mechanics. If a hitting coach has to make wholesale changes to their swings in season, that player is in deep trouble. No matter how terrible some of these guys look now, I bet few sox players are in need of dramatic changes.