beck72

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:48 AM) I don't think the meeting is that bad. I think it's good they included Konerko in it. The article said other GMs are like vultures right now. For now KW accepts Konerko's assertion the team hasn't given up and can still get it together. That doesn't mean he's not going to consider possible trades to pull the trigger on before the deadline. I think it's refreshing a player was included in the meeting. Well said. Having Paulie in the meeting--who will be around for the next few years and has a stake in the sox future, as well as its present--was a good touch. Kw got the players perspective. That's good management, having input from its employees and listening to them. We all want to be included in major decisions. As far as not trading away players--this meeting never dismisses that possibility. KW has over a month to give the players more time to play better. And the price for players usually goes up closest to the deadline. Few people give them a chance. Yet it's a chance KW is giving the players that doesn't tie his hands. He still can and should trade guys if they play .500 ball from now until the deadline. That kind of faith, though--even if it's blind faith--will serve KW well as he tries to add free agents in the future. Thome, PK, Dye, Buehrle, Iguchi--these are all professionals and seemingly good guys---guys you'd want to sign with your team via free agency, and the type of players you want to attract to come play with you--deserve to treated with a measure of respect. Kw is treating them with respect by giving them the month to right the ship. If they don't no big deal. But if KW had decided to sell off players this weekend and the sox went on a tear and were only a few games back by the deadline--now that kind of move could really hurt the kind of relationships with these professional good guys--and the kind of players the sox want to play here in the future, such as Ichiro. I say no harm no foul. And KW should and will no doubt be looking to make deals for the future if the players are closer to last than first come the end of July.

Pelfrey won't be going anywhere. Yet I could see the Mets parting with their 2nd rd pick of last year who's in AA now [doing very well, his name escapes me], along with Milledge, and another prospect in the 10-15 range.

Richar seems like decent depth at 2b, maybe SS if the sox can work on his defense in AAA. In case of an injury, there wasn't anyone to play 2b. And with Cintron gone next yr, Richar gives the sox a possible UTL guy. Yet no way would I expect him to be starting in 2008 for the sox. If Iguchi isn't re-signed, others full-time options are out there such as Castillo that make much more sense than Richar.

FWIW, the Mets have 4 players in Baseball America's Top 100-- Pelfrey, 20; Martinez, 22; Gomez, 60; and Humber, 73. To compare, the also have 4 players in the top 100. Fields, 45; Sweeney, 55; Danks, 56; and Gio, 72. To compare the Garcia trade, the sox could be looking at Martinez, Heilman and a prospect. Or Gomez, Humber and a prospect. For my money, I'd rather see the latter deal, as gomez has tools no one else in the sox system has.

Carlos Gomez is the position player I'd want [has speed, defense and his offensive tools are coming around, as he's been very young in all his stops]. Pitchers: Mulvey, last yrs 2nd rd pick; or Deolis Guerra, 18 yr old Venezuelan in high A; and a bullpen arm;

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 08:29 PM) because KW is stubborn and won't call it a season until midway through July. Or because Minnesota came back from a similar deficit a year ago. Or because Cleveland came back from an even greater deficit after the all-star break in 2005 and got to within like a half game. So, he is going to think the Sox have a shot at it. The problem is that the White Sox definitely don't have the youth that both of those teams had, and it certainly doesn't appear as though the White Sox have enough talent in their minor league system. I too think KW will buy before he sells. Yet it more likely involve a MacDougal type deal that nets someone for past this year that could be an upgrade. If the Sox could get more than a Tyler Lumsden, KW and the sox would come out ahead. KW isn't delusional. If he dealt away Fields, Sweeney or young pitchers on the 1% chance [according to BP] the sox make the playoffs, he'd be an idiot.

The sox aren't going to be in complete rebuilding mode in '08. With some salaries coming off the books, the sox can add a few key pieces. Not to mention if the sox get near ready prospects in deals this year. Jenks isn't going anywhere.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 04:41 AM) Contreras needs to be dealt before the beginning of next season simply for the $10M it would save. I'd much rather watch Gio struggle to get hitters out in the 5th slot next year than a 50 year old Cuban making 8 figures. I agree on trading Contreras--I would deal him by the deadline. His K numbers are steadily declining, and seems to be on a Freddy Garcia path. But some team will take him on and give up a decent package for him.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 05:29 PM) That is my perfect offseason: My 2008 WHite Sox: Ichiru RF Castillo 2B Thome DH Konerko 1B Pierzynski C Fields 3B Eckstien SS Sweeney, Owens, Anderson CF Erstad LF Not bad. I'd also go with Ichiro and Castillo 1 and 2. Except my 3rd free agent signing [not mine but what the sox would likely do] is Rowand for CF. And I'd resign Uribe. Ichiro RF Castillo 2b Thome DH Paulie 1B AJ C Rowand CF Fields 3b Sweeney LF Uribe SS Fields looks overmatched now. But another 1/2 year playing everyday will allow him the start 2008 putting up decent numbers. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:07 PM) Juan Uribe will be the starting SS next year, this I'm sure of. Considering what will be available at the position this offseason I'm content with have Juan back at short. I agree. If the sox can get consistent offense from other spots such as Ichiro and Castillo, they'll be happy with Uribe's defense.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) I would either of those guys for Dye. HOWEVER, the Dodgers will certainly need to add more for a deal, in order for KW to pull the trigger. Because we can just hang onto JD and get those 2 draft picks for him, unless we get a real good offer. Billingsley they haven't handled well at all this season moving him into the pen. He's still a future #2 starter at the MLB level I think. Broxton will eventually be a closer somewhere, and he's probably the better short term bet. Some other names to possibly add into a deal here with the Dodgers; Wilson Betemit - Struggling ATM as he's only hitting .187. However he also has a .743 OPS, so he has real good plate discipline. Move him into a good hitting environment, and I think he'll really become a solid player. And he can also play some SS and 2B besides 3B, so he's very versatile. Maybe Colletti would have some interest in Crede as well? Scott Elbert - Dodgers #1 pitching spect. LHP, I would be giddy if we could get say Elbert, Billingsley and Betemit for Dye and Crede, although that might be unrealistic. Andre Ethier - I've mentioned him before, I don't know if the Dodgers are going to have room for both him and Kemp over the long - term, especially if they acquired Dye. He's a pretty solid contact hitter, although he's struggling a bit this season. Clayton Kershaw - Same deal as Elbert, either one should be a priority if we acquire an arm. Chin Lung Hu - Has the glove and defense you want from a SS. Hitting is the question, but he's hitting .330 in AA, and has a .862 OPS for Jacksonville. Maybe a possibility? I see KW waiting on a deal. And that would mean for prospects closer to the deadline--the dodgers won't part with key bullpen pieces as time passes. My first two choices for prospects would be SS Lung Hu and AA closer Jonathan Meloan.

I'm sure Kenny's phone is ringing off the hook. Mac and Aardsma could help a few teams. Yet he shouldn't be looking to unload them. Both have had success in the bigs. Sure you can't trust them with the ball now. Yet they have more upside than most scrub bullpen arms that could be had on the market. Keep them and get them back on track.

DOWN THE LINE Bill Shaikin June 10, 2007 From today's LA TImes [need to be registered]: For L.A. or San Diego, a bat to Dye for? Stat of the week: The White Sox bullpen has a 5.85 earned-run average, the worst in baseball. The Dodgers and Padres, fighting in the tightly contested National League West, could use a slugger. The Dodgers have asked the White Sox about outfielder Jermaine Dye, according to a source familiar with the talks. The Padres are intrigued by Dye as well, particularly because he would bring a right-handed bat to a stadium with a 357-foot alley in left-center. The Sox say they're not trading Dye now, certainly not for prospects, but a quality reliever might change their minds. From the Dodgers, that's Jonathan Broxton or Chad Billingsley. From the Padres, that's Scott Linebrink, the human trade rumor. The Padres would love to get a hitter before opponents start giving Adrian Gonzalez the Barry Bonds treatment. Padres General Manager Kevin Towers declined to discuss potential trade targets, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said he would not comment on trade rumors and White Sox GM Ken Williams did not return a call. --------------------- Any team that wants Dye will have to give up something decent. Esp. as any team the sox trade him to would get 2 supplemental picks. Best case scenario is Dye heats up, and the sox get a nice price for him. If the dodgers offered either Billingsley or Broxton, I'd say the sox would jump at it.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 07:47 PM) Baldellis hurt more often than Podsednik. It is probably true that we have to give up on Crawford because we dont have the pieces to acquire him. Ellsbury and Gomez are other options but I think they may be as difficult to acquire as Crawford. I like Carlos Gomez. Yet the mets would probably be more willing to part with Milledge. Esp. in a deal for Buehrle or Contreras.

The sox would be better off trying to work a deal for Baldelli. They could get him pretty cheaply, and were reportedly interested in him in the offseason. While he is injury prone, the sox need to start stockpiling talented young position players. Maybe move him to a corner OF spot to save his legs.

No. Fields is a much better long term option and far cheaper.

Kw isn't going to be a seller yet. Though he might add a piece sooner rather than later to help improve the team. If the sox are ten games back around the all star break, then a few guys could be moved out. IMO, it's too early to say the team is done. Sure they look horrible. But the sox are one hot streak away from righting the ship. For all the grief the sox got from the White Flag trade, when they gave up in July, how much flak would people around here give them for giving up a month and half earlier than that?

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) First on the list should be Egbert. Throws strikes. Doesn't give up homers. Keeps the ball on the ground. Sounds like a recipe for immediate success. Exactly.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) According to the Sun-Times and Tribune, MacDougal does have options left. I know a few people here said he doesn't so they Sox really couldn't demote him, but really if someone wanted to pick up his entire contract, why not just let them? If he does have options and Aardsma does as well, the fact that they have not been sent down yet really is indicative of KW's boast of pitching "depth" being total BS. I really don't care who they bring up or trade for to replace them, I just hope its someone who will ocassionally feel throwing a strike might be a good idea. These 2 need to be removed from the roster. I agree these two should be sent to AAA or to a 15 day DL stint. It's a matter of who takes their place. QUOTE(Jim Spencer @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) They may not be THE Answer, but it may be the start. Prinz, Vasquez or even Paulino Reynoso can't do any worse than Mac and Aardsma. Could they???? You'd think. I just want someone with talent who can get outs and keep runners from scoring, be it Prinz, Oneli, Russell or Gio.

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) I know nothing about the shortstop, but I'm for any trade that lets me say "Hu's on short."

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) To me it depends on the front offices attitude towards the season at this point. If they are planning to go into sell mode, it doesnt make sense to bring any starters into the bullpen, just keep throwing the kids we have in the bullpen now out there until they get it figured out. It may take the rest of the year, but it will put us in a good position next season. If they feel that this team will cotend than they need to put whoever out there they can that can get outs. It seems pretty clear by the public stances of Ozzie and KW that they seem to think the sox can contend this yr. It makes sense that they should do everything [within reason of course, not trading away parts of the sox future] they can to win until the deadline when they'll know better if they have a shot or not. One small part could be using a minor league SP as a bullpen guy.

Dye for abreu makes no sense. But it seems like Dye's name is being floated out there. Line up the best suitors for him. The sox need to get younger players for Dye, not veterans. And any deal should be a good one, as the team that trades for him will get 2 draft picks. Yet I'd expect any deal would wait until JD gets hot. Dye's name is linked to the dodgers. At least here. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ I could see the sox wanting SS Chin Lung Hu. Great defensively and hitting .330 in the SOU league. Or RHP Jonathan Meloan, who is closing in AA for them.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) It's a lost cause, Beck. Admit it. I'd rather accept our fate than risk stunting the development of any pitcher. I should also add I absolutely HATE the idea of placing SP prospects in the bullpen. I don't care if Garland, Santana, Buehrle, others did it. Guillen just doesn't find these pitchers (such as McCarthy and Masset) consistent work. Guillen would find any bullpen guy who could get outs consistent work. The season may be a lost cause, I agree. Yet the alternatives are hoping some journeymen bullpen guys can solidify a horrible bullpen. Or trading guys like Dye and Mark too early, thereby giving up in early June. Or staying the status quo and watching the bullpen keep giving away games. Or trading away prospects for relief help [which I'm against, seeing how bad the sox have looked, they should be sellers rather than buyers at this point]. My biggest worry would be injuries to a SP prospect if put into the bullpen. Yet I haven't seen or heard evidence of this. More guys work from starting to the bullpen if they have been hurt The Dodgers put their top SP prospect in middle relief. Looks like their spot on top of the NL west hasn't been hurt. Billingsley has been a nice bridge to Broxton and their closer, able to go more than an inning. Why not someone like that for the sox? They tried it with BMac but he wasn't able to handle it. But that shouldn't deter them. IMO, the farm system should be used to help the major league club in whatever capacity. If a SP prospect can get outs for the major league club, put him in.

The most logical idea is to bring up the best bullpen arms from the minors to help the sox struggling pen. Names like Bukvich, Prinz, Oneli Perez, Carlos Vasquez come to mind, as they are having the most success. Yet are these guys the answer? Pinning hopes on journeymen arms is a little much, IMO. The sox can't afford to stick around .500. Their window for winning is closing fast and need more help than a few mediocre arms. Why waste solid outings from SP's, hoping the bullpen might "turn it around"? So why not bring up the best arms, guys who can throw strikes, challenge hitters, miss some bats, even if they are currently starting in the minors? Why not give guys like Egbert, Russell, Broadway, even Gio a chance to get some outs from the pen in Chicago? Even Gavin Floyd should be given a chance. I know the argument against--that it would hurt their development, start their arb. clocks, etc. Yet with so few options and "sure things" available to help the bullpen via trade, why not go with the best pitchers in the system? There have been many young guys who first came into the majors in the bullpen and then went to the rotation. Few would think twice about trading a young SP for a "proven" bullpen arm. Yet their are few guys who qualify as "proven" year in and year out. Bullpen arms are the least predictable. So why not try and put a young arm having success in the high minors into the same bullpen slot? IMO, if the sox are going down, if their season is on the line, they should go down with the best players in the system on the field.

Idiotic thought. While Ozzie may work himself out of town at some point---not anytime soon--Baker is a bum.

Right now, the sox are 3 games back of a playoff spot. Despite their scoring 100 less runs than Detroit, and have almost 50 runs less than even the Twins. Even though the sox should have a far worse record based on some horrible, horrible games [which probably contributes to the doom and gloom], IMO, they don't need a dramatic re-organization. If anyone would have guessed the sox would be last in the AL in runs scored, and like 27th in all of baseball, and last in almost all offensive categories, no one would have believed it. And few options were out there that would have helped them when only 1 guy in the lineup is hitting at least their career norm. No team is going to replace 8 regulars who can't even hit their weight. That the sox are even .500 hitting so bad is amazing. I agree the sox need some new blood in on offense. Yet that seems to be plan B. Plan A was getting young pitching to compete year in and year out. That plan seems to be going well, with Danks, Masset, Gio, Russell, Egbert coming on. Fields and Sweeney should be regulars in 2008. The sox can work them into the bottom of the lineup if they get a guy like Ichiro for leadoff. All in all, the sox aren't near as bad [this year or in the next few years] as everyone makes them out to be.