beck72

Josh Fields no doubt has a future with the white sox. In the short term, though, it should be in LF as the sox still have Crede for 3B. If Carlos Lee can play LF, Fields definitely can. Getting rid of Crede while his value is beyond low makes little sense. Esp. if his medical diagnosis is OK for 2008 which it seems to be. The sox would have to fill LF with a free agent for the $5 mill Crede will make. Fields in LF and Crede at 3B for $5.37 mill is probably are far better value in terms of production and dollars than Fields at 3B and unknown free agent LFer. Having Fields and Crede play at the same time leaves the sox with one less hole to fill. and the sox have a LOT of other holes to fill.

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) Joe Crede is Dead to me.. Fields is our 3b. What do you do with Joe? Trade him for very little, or DFA? Neither of those are smart baseball or business moves. With Dye gone, the sox will need Joe's power. You will be hard pressed to find a free agent who will match Joe's avg and SLG and stellar defense with the $5 mill salary Joe will likely make in 2008. The sox should put Fields into LF for 2008. Depending on how that experiment works and how well the sox are doing in the standings, the sox would have a lot of options getting both Joe and Josh into the lineup next year. The sox can them decide on Joe's long term future, or trade him, get compensation picks for him if he becomess a free agent and leaves. Getting rid of Joe this offseason limits what the sox can do and would bring in more uncertainty [bringing in someone to play LF] to a club that doesn't need it. If Josh can handle LF defensively, the sox would be set at 3b and LF with two solid bats, and great D at 3rd in Joe.

QUOTE(SoxPride56 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) I don't think Otsuka is a FA after this year, I beleive it is after next year. He has only been in the league 3 years. That should make him eligible for ARB, right?

A few thoughts: *The mariners could use Dye. Two decent prospects should do it [one in the top 7, and one in the top 20], as the M's would get the draft picks for Dye if they don't re-sign him. *Josh Fields should be in LF to start 2008. He'll probably go to winter ball and get some time in LF. Crede should be good to go for 2008. The sox will need his bat with Dye gone. *Otsuka makes no sense, unless the sox know they can re-sign him, or will give him the big cash and 3, 4 yr deal we'll seek as a FA. If the sox have Otsuka as their #1 target this offseason, then going after him now would be OK if the price wasn't too bad [seeing how he's injured, the price may be reduced]. The sox would still get the comp. picks if Otsuka signs elsewhere.

I think Thornton is on his way out. Listening to the sox pregame on the radio last night [or was it in the afternoon?] Ronge asked Matt what was the difference with some of his struggles this year. The biggest thing he said was that last year teams were waiting for him to throw a strike, due to his reputation for wildness. This year they aren't. Matt was able to get ahead of hitters as opposing teams were laying off 1st pitch strikes. now they are looking for 1st pitch, straight 95 mph fastballs and hitting them hard. With Matt having little else than the fastball that he can throw for strikes, there isn't a lot to hitting him at least the pros, I can't hit a 95 mph FB . It comes down to who has more of a future w/ the sox--Logan or Matt? And if the sox can get someone with more upside in a trade. Logan has more deception and two quality pitches he can throw. matt is a one pitcher pitcher. If the yanks or another team offer something decent for him, they should get out from under Thornton's contract this year before it's too late.

According to the NY Post, sox scouts have been watching the Yanks "Of all the teams following the Yankees, the White Sox seem to be paying the most attention. And while the Yankees don’t have an interest in bringing Jose Contreras or Javier Vazquez back, industry sources indicated last night they could be interested in 27-year-old right-handed starter Jon Garland or 30-year-old lefty reliever Matt Thornton. The White Sox had Bill Scherrer and Dave Yokam - special assistants to GM Ken Williams - in St. Petersburg, Fla., recently to watch the Yankees, and Scherrer was on hand last night at Kauffman Stadium. In addition, the White Sox have had scouts following Single-A Tampa." http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242007/sport...george_king.htm This tells me the sox are looking at players on the Yanks major league roster. I could see interest in Proctor, with a swap of Thornton, with the yanks adding another prospect. But unless the Yanks are going to give up top prospect Chamberlain in a deal for Garland, I don't see jon going anywhere. Joe Torre abuses his bullpen. Proctor was solid last year--throwing over 100 innings for the Yanks with a mid 3.00 era. Proctor could be burned up this year--though he still has an ERA under 4.00 [though his walks are up]. I do see that Proctor's a FB pitcher. While Proctor may not be a fit the Cell, he's a better bet to have a solid 2008 than Thornton. Thornton wasn't overused like Proctor was in 2006. With thornton's ERA above 5 now, and signed for a few years ala MacDougal, if a team would give up some talent for him, the sox should rid themselves of one of those deals. And only thornton has value. And a better track record than Thornton as well.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 02:49 AM) I guarantee you that we can get a better player than Jose with the $9 or $10 million in salary relief we'd get by trading him. He's (at least) 35 and sports an ERA near 6, dumping his contract at all costs is the right move. I'm just saying Jose's value is at an all time low. If the sox keep him after the 31st--if no team offers a deent deal--Jose could improve his value by having a good August or Sept. Starting pitching is still a very valuable commodity. The sox shouldn't just look to dump Jose but get some talent as well.

For some odd reason, I think if Contreras has a decent next start, some team will take a flyer on him. There are many teams who are close to the playoffs after being sub-.500 teams for awhile--such as the Mariners, Brewers. With few SP's available, the sox do seem to have a chance here to get someone decent via trade.

The only way these guys should be seeing playing time is to showcase them for a trade. Both will be taking up space and AB's that should go to Owens, Sweeney, etc.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) How much does Jack Wilson make and when is he signed through? I don't really like Wilson a whole lot, but if they were signed through the same years, is there any chance of a bad contract for bad contract deal, Contreras for Wilson straight up? Again, Wilson isn't a very good player at all, but he's a better-than-average defensive shortstop and at the very least, you can rely on him for a .300 OBP (I know that's not saying much). That doesn't really "solve" our problem at SS, but if Wilson is only signed through 2009, he can hold the spot down for a year or two. I like the thought of seeing Wilson instead of Uribe as well. But instead of trading bad contracts [though the Sox will probably have to eat as much of Jose's contract as the Pirates cover Wilson's--I'm thinking like $3-4 mill] the sox could net more in return for Jose than just Wilson. If Contreras really started showing some life to his FB the last two starts and isn't hurt [after the break which could be he's pretty fatigued], the sox should hold onto him and deal him in the offseason. Shut him down and get some rest for a few starts, get a look at Floyd some more, or Egbert, and hope Jose has a Freddy like 2nd half. Unless some team is willing to offer a decent prospect before the trade deadline, hold onto Jose. I have a hard time thinking he's completely toast--though he's pitched like it. And though getting rid of Jose's contract would be nice, the sox should be able to get something of value for him.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 02:38 AM) Teams have been getting burned for years yet Barry Zito just got a little more than 1/8 of a billion dollars to suck for the next 8 years, Jason Schmidt and Dave Roberts are making more combined than the entire Marlins roster and Juan f***ing Pierre is getting $45M to get on base in 31% of his PAs. Nothing is going to change next year, Eric Byrnes and Aaron Rowand will demand Matthews money and some one will pay up, Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones will get larger contracts than Johnny Damon did 2 years ago and all will be merry until the first injury of '08. Rowand is putting up a .924 OPS, the highest of any CF in baseball, he's outproducing '06 Gary Matthews Jr. in every offensive category while playing similar defense and supplying pretty good speed. He's a very popular player in both the media and with the fans and he's 3 years younger Little Sarge. There's no reason for his best offer to be $24M, none at all. Vernon Wells inked a 7 year, $126M deal just last season, Ichiro just got $100M 2 weeks ago and Eric Byrnes' agent is already throwing Gary Matthews' name around. Teams are just going to stop paying up for the best free agents. I think teams will keep paying for the "sure thing" all stars. that's why teams are locking up the Buehrle's, Wells' and Ichiro's. Yet Mark is getting $14 mill and Ichiro avg's to be $16.1 mill. [signed 5-year contract EXTENSION worth $90M thru 2012 season on 7/13/07- + he receives a $5M signing bonus and salaries of $17M each year in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012- + each year $5M of his salary is deferred at 5.5% interest, thus lowering the deal's average annual present-day value to $16.1M- + the $25M in deferred salaries will be paid out in annual installments each January 30 beginning with the first year of his retirement from MLB until at least 2032-] With these stars setting the market, and teams not wanting to repeat last years free agent spending disasters having been already stuck with contracts they would love to part with but can't, the mid level players won't see the huge paydays. For instance, Torii Hunter isn't going to see Ichiro money. He'll likely get $13 mill. That will affect Rowand and Cameron.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 02:03 AM) Why should Rowand get any less than what Gary Matthews got last offseason? Because teams are getting burned by all those wasted big dollar contracts for mid level guys. The few stars will get their money--Arod is sniffing glue if he thinks he'll get $30 mill. Yet guys like Rowand won't get the extreme dollars that guys like Roberts, Matthews got last year.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 01:42 AM) Rowand is looking at a ~$50M pay day after this season, the Sox can't afford anything close to that. I really don't think Rowand signing here is anywhere near a sure thing. Rowand is likely to get $7, 8 mill a year. Probably a 3 yr deal. He's likely to be the highest paid free agent they'll target. And the sox should get a home town discount.

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 10:18 PM) Beck, I love that idea.. Someone that can lead-off play LF and cheap.. Man that sounds like a nice little idea. Thanks. With Rowand probably a sure thing to sign, why not also sign a guy who has played college ball and is friends with Aaron? From all I've heard and read, Johnson is also a "grinder" and hard worker. I'm sure Aaron would give him a good recommendation to Kenny and the sox.

Another option for LF next year could be Reed Johnson. He'll be a FA after 2007. He's been hurt this year and just came off the DL in early July. Yet he's been able to hit .300/.360/.441 at the leadoff spot the last three years. Plus he hits LHP esp. well. And he's good friends with Rowand, attending Cal State and working out with him in the offseason. Seeing how Rowand coming back seems like a good fit, why not another reunite with a guy like Johnson. Johnson would be relatively cheap, making $3 mill. in ARB this year, and could get something like $ 4 mill a yr for 2 years plus an option. He fits in with the sox FA gambles like they did with Dye.

Looks like Contreras still has some suitors. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox21.article Some key excerpts: But with scouts from at least three major-league teams looking on, it all got away from the White Sox right-hander in the eighth, as the five-run inning resulted in the 10-3 loss to the Red Sox. Contreras' velocity was hitting 93 mph more regularly in the loss after it barely cracked 90 over the last month, and his missing control was a welcome return. Some team from the NL will bite on Jose. If he can throw 93 and show more control, it will probably show teams he's not hurt. Especially as it won't cost much in terms of talent to acquire him--though the $20 mill price tag is steep. My guess is his next start [the only one left before the deadline] will be the key. He throws well, he's gone. But the sox don't have to give him away. He could put together a Freddy Garcia type 2nd half and up his value in an offseason trade.

Rowand should be in CF at $7.5 mill a year. Sweeney should have one of the corner spots. The other spot should be addressed in a trade for a young guy who can steal bases and hit for avg. Owens is a 4th OFer who should be on the sox bench for 2008.

If the Pirates coughed up at least $3.75 mill, to get Wilson's contract down to $5 mill per year, he'd be an upgrade over Uribe. The sox wouldn't miss much defensively. And would get a guy who could improve 40-50 pts in average and OBP--which is what the sox need more so than SLG which Uribe is better than Wilson. Wilson has also hit #2 most of his career and has hit lefties far better than Uribe. With Iguchi likely gone, the sox don't have a #2 hitter. [Or a leadoff man for that matter]. While Wilson isn't flashy, the sox need someone dependable at SS. That way, they can add a young guy like Richar at 2B. And as a short term option at least for 2008, Omar Vizquel would likely be an upgrade over Uribe.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 14, 2007 -> 03:55 AM) Jo-Jo Reyes and Jarrod Saltamachia for Javier Vazquez? Who likes that deal? Do I hear any takers? Check out this article by baseball opinion writer Christopher Solberg. http://www.baseball-opinion.com/2007/071207.htm I'd pass. The sox don't need a Salty type of player. They have C filled w/ AJ, who should be signed after 2008, and can't move Salty to 1B with PK around. Any big move should net the sox a speedster type of ballplayer.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 02:27 PM) This season was KW's inaugural "re-tooling" season. How'd it treat ya? Get ready for more of the same. The only place Williams re-tooled was the bullpen. And I'd still suspect that one, probably two of the arms he got in the last year [MacDougal, Sisco, Aardsma, Massett] will have a much better 2008. So you add one, maybe two of those with Jenks, thornton and Logan, finding a few more arms from within the sox current minor league system shouldn't be that hard. But there will be much needed changes in a few position players. The key is making the deals for the right few players, not necessarily finding the best deal. The Richar deal may be a small one. Except those aren't earth shattering moves. Kenny will need to make a major deal for a young stud position player or two. The success or failure of those players will decide on if the sox need to completely dismantle and rebuild within the next year or two. And the only current Sox players who could bring those one or two studs would be Javy or Jon.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) As for discounting batting avearge. I fell for the Jeremy Reed mirage. If the only thing a minor league hitter does well is hit for average...well it doesn't translate well to the majors. Good pitchers know they won't have to fear walking him because the worst he would do is get a single anyway. Ryan seems to walk more than Reed does...so that's something. And yes the fact that he had an .802 OPS at AAA at 21 is very exciting. I'm just dscouraged with the .750 OPS at AAA at 22. Sweeney seems to be hitting a genuine .300--making solid contact, getting hits when the pitcher falls behind rather than relying on seeing-groung balls or bloop hits. Ryan has had a professional approach to hitting since he's come up through all levels. I don't think that will change in the majors.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) I think the Dodgers and Mets are the two teams I want to see the Sox deal with the most. I will also admit the Braves have some key parts I like (Escobar & Salty) but I don't see them giving up those guys without getting one of our starters (and I must admit, I would trade Garland for that type of package but I don't know if they would and I would trade Jenks for that type of package...again some people claim Soriano is that guy for the Braves but if he was, Wickman wouldn't be closing for them). Milledge, Pelfrey, Gomez, Martinez, Kemp, Hu, Billingsley all names I love. I just don't see the Sox getting any of those guys, but who knows maybe they would do Milledge/Pelfrey or some sort of combo for Jose and Jermaine (I would be absolutely stunned if they would, but I sure wouldn't complain, LOL). What do you think about Lillibridge and Brandon Jones from ATL? With Escobar playing as well as he is, Lillibridge should be available.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 12:43 AM) Standing past is absolutely ridiculous. It honestly upsets me to even think about the possibility of not trading any starting pitcher. How exactly is the ballclub expected to improve in future seasons if not for the trade of someone holding value? We've been over the various options for acquiring talent, and this team has practically none of them working in their favor. Since Buehrle's presence on this ballcub is assured, Garland should be traded. This entire scenario with contract extensions and the possibility of not receiving top value (because of time remaining on a contract) in return will only be rehased again next season. We're not winning anything within the immediate future whether Williams realizes it or not. I'd rather have whichever package is received for Garland and Contreras, in addition to the likely struggles of their replacements, rather than have both pitch meaningless games. 2010 should be the goal. Perhaps by then, DLS will be available. Even though he's the guy signed for the longest, I wouldn't be surprised if Vazquez was the one moved. He's got almost as much value as Jon with his recent performances. Yet who is the better bet to pitch and win more games? And garland could be dealt next year if the sox can't re-sign him. Again, who is the better bet to have more value next year--Jon or Javy? Contreras could be kept until he regains his stuff--which may be only the few starts between now and the deadline. Then traded in the offseason. Or kept for the next 2 seasons. Because right now it makes little sense to dump him as his trade value is rock bottom low. It wasn't that long ago he was the sox ace. If he can pull a 2nd half like Freddy did last year, Jose will be valuable again.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 04:51 PM) So Jay Payton? I don't know...I'm struggling to find a comparable guy. Walks a little bit but not much. Hits for very little power. No speed. He's no longer the youngest at AAA and is repeating a level and is NOT progressing. Last year he hit .296 with 13 homers. This year he's at .285 with 5 in more than half as many at-bats. He'll find less pitchers that will make mistakes to him in the majors for him to hit singles if he can't hit for power and doesn't own the strike zone. I remember when Harold Baines came up they said his power would come...but at 22 he was in his second year in the majors and was hitting a dozen homers at 21. Just give me an example of a major leaguer like him...and I'll be more comfortable. IMO, he could be like Garret Anderson, with better OBP and defense, though with less power. Sweeney has the talent and the instincts to play for a long time in the majors. You're discounting how hard it is to hit near .300 in the minors, as if it's a bad thing. So he doesn't hit for 20 Hr's per year. the sox need more selective hitters, guys who can work counts, and hit for an average near .300. That he's not ready to play everyday in the majors this year is not a big deal, though he could have helped with all the injuries. The sox seem to be taking it slow with him, and let reserve guys like Terrero and Gonzalez get some irregular playing time. It seems like when they call up Sweeney the next time, they want him to stay for good [or at least get an extended look, like say in Sept]. He'll probably be ready in May or June of 2008 for the bigs. One thing to keep in mind is that Sweeney has only had 3 full seasons in the minors after being a high school player. He skipped low A ball after playing instructional ball after signing in 2003. That he's repeating AAA doesn't raise red flags. He's still on course to play one level of ball at a time.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) Is it just me or is Ryan Sweeney really beginning to concern anyone else? Almost 300 at bats at Charlotte which is a hitter's park...and he's got FIVE home runs? He's not a baby anymore...22 at AAA and repeating we ought to see something. We've been told he's one of our system's crown jewels...but what exactly does he do well? He's not the fielder that Brian Anderson is. He doesn't walk a ton. Hits for no power. His average is ok...but a corner outfielder with no speed or power? I'm not sure why we would call him up again...he's got to prove something at AAA first I would think. Sweeney should be fine. He's progressed each year, despite being one of the youngest wherever he's been. He just needs a full year in AAA, though I see a Sept. callup [or sooner if a trade happens]. Sweeney should be an above avg defender, hit for an avg near .300, have an OBP over .350, and hit 10+ HR's. His lack of HR power isn't a concern if you get HR's from elsewhere.