beck72

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 10, 2007 -> 01:53 AM) Well the firesale would be fun. The deals we make would be exciting and our team would have no expectations. Our organization got into a mess w/poor scouting and a .500 ballclub every year. I think you need to be contenders, and if you arent, then why waste a chance to get talent that will make you contenders in a couple years. Every other team in our division did it. Their fans probably said the same thing as we are...and look at them now. Legit contenders every year with young talent and more and more coming. We have old players w/ minimal young talent coming and 0 blue chip. So a firesale I am ok with. We can still be a 60 win team if it's done right. I'd hang on to a couple guys (Mark B., Javy, and I guess Thome w/ his no trade clause) but otherwise why not. The sox don't have to have a firesale if they: 1] spend money; 2] draft better young players; 3] deal for bargains like they have in the past; Things can turn around pretty quickly in baseball, esp with regard to farm systems. Teams like Boston, the rockies, the Yanks, Mets have turned their systems around in one or two years w/o blowing the team up. The sox will still be $100 mill. ballclub. They aren't going the Marlins route and dealing solid players just for financial reasons.

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:55 AM) Our bullpen I think will bounce back. I still have faith in guys like Mike Mac, I like Thorton, Logan has grown on me, and I think we will have a couple young future SP's up in that pen this year that will help. Could we use another arm? Sure. I don't want it through FA cuz I am not spending 8 mil on a bp arm...unless... Idk how you guys feel about it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Contreras out of the pen after watching how bad he looked all year. I've said it alot on here. I think mentally he may not have the late inning make-up but for a long or middle relief guy I think one or two innings could work out of him. He needs to throw strikes but for one inning having to see his stuff and his arm angles, it could work out. IDK, something I have been pondering. Our offense is bad. No leadoff hitter and our power is old. I was very upset to hear Thome wanted to retire here b/c I am all for it, but I really thought he would've had some value at the deadline last season. Same goes for JD. Richar is not our guy. We made the deal, I thought he was going to be a back-up not our starter. If he is, I'll be very upset. God I'd like to see a firesale still. It'd be fun if you ask me. A few responses: *The sox can't count on the bullpen bouncing back. for the sox to sit still and have the 2nd worst bullpen in the league is beyond foolish. The trade route is the best way to go because there are no decent arms. At least one solid, dependable guy who can post a 3.00 ERA and lock down leads for Jenks is needed. But I could see some SP's from the minors contend for spots, like Broadway, Philips. *Contreras isn't built for the pen. He's a SP and IMO he still has 2 decent yrs in him. He's not Garcia going out there with 8 less MPH. His problems seemed more emotional than physical. With the personal issues [divorce] behind him, he's a strong candidate to bounce back with near 4.00 ERA, if not sub 4.00. *The sox offense was horrible in 2007. Yet who thought they'd be that terrible? Not by a long shot. The sox power guys can be old. Dye and PK will still be good for the next 2 yrs. Thome is still one of the best DH's. The offense can be middle of the pack or better with a few additions. Getting a leadoff or a #2 hitter is key though. *Richar should be decent enough. He'll likely improve, as he already has the patience. He's making pitchers work, and not being an easy out. With that approach, he should be fine. He needs to play solid d, though. He was able to turn the DP well, and play better D than he was given credit for. *NO firesale would be fun, regardless of what talent might come from it. That would guarantee a few losing seasons. I give Kenny credit. He's going out and trying to win w/o giving up the future. It remains to be seen if it's the right move. Both KW and Brian Cashman banked on restocking their systems in 2007 with young arms. It didn't pan out for the sox. Yet those arms [Floyd, Gio, Massett, Danks] might be heard from more this yr.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Possible ideas on the trade rumor front: Garland to the mets The rockies may think about moving Holliday The Sox have called about Bill Hall as our SS Andru jones may be the actual CF target for the Sox link? I have liked Gomez for a long time. Gomez can play all 3 OF spots and would be a great addition to the sox.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 11:28 AM) Ok here's some reasons why I think we can be a + .500 team next season. 1 - Excellent talent at the top of the rotation. Whatever way you spin it, Buehrle and Vazquez is a top 1-2 combo, and one of the better ones in the MLB. Buehrle had a 3.63 ERA and Vazquez had a 3.74 ERA, and yet they only won 25 games combined. If they can produce that kind of pitching again in 2008, they SHOULD win more than that, probably around 30-35. 2 - Jon Garland if kept, should have a good season in a contract year. And for 4 months this season, Garland was pretty damn good, ERA's under 4. It was only the 2 months after the ASB when he was working thru those shoulder issues, where he really struggled, and it put his ERA above 4. So the key here is Garland's health. If he's healthy, I think he can have an ERA below 4, and win around 15 games, 5 more than this season. Of course that's if we decide to keep him. So a top 3 of Buehrle, Vazquez and Garland is pretty good. 3 - The bullpen just can't be as bad. It's got to be better surely. They'll sign or trade for a couple of relievers, hopefully 1 from Japan, and MacDougal and Thornton should be improved in 2008. The overall bullpen should improve by at least 1.00 in ERA, and that will not cost the Sox about 5-10 games as it did in 2007. That's the major thing for mine for this team, fix this pen, this team is a .500 team at least. 4 - The Sox had the lowest total OBP last season with .318. They also had the lowest BA/RISP with .243. The Sox have made it a mission to bring in some more OBP guys. And there should be progression from the various players. Danny Richar had a .289 OBP, if he starts, that number should be around the .315-.330 mark. Jermaine Dye went down to .317 from .385 the previous season, but post ASB had an OBP of .368. That should be the norm for him this season. A.J Pierzynski had a post ASB OBP of .338 after a pre ASB mark of .287. I just can't see us being as bad as were offensively last season from happening this season. But a lot of it falls on Greg Walker's shoulders, and that is cause for concern. So the important thing is, the Sox have to find a way in the cold weather early in the season to produce offensively. It would actually be a good thing, if they played more games on the road in fact. So I think this team can be AT LEAST .500 next season, with the potential for 90 wins if they can fix the pen, don't trade Garland and the offense bounces back to 2006 levels. And yeah maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but someone has to try and drum up some positives for this team in light of recent events. Good points. I am also starting to think the sox could hang onto Jon. If the sox want to make the playoffs this year--and they certainly seem built for that rather than rebuilding--keeping Jon for 2008 seems smart. Yet if the sox are out of it come the deadline again, trade for youth. Though if the sox want to get some young talent that could help in 2009, or the end of 2008--say a SS like Brent Lillibridge, as well as getting a solid bullpen arm for 2008, trading Jon makes sense as well. If the sox sign Hunter for CF, there are few options for LF/ someone to hit leadoff. The sox could go with a Shannon Stewart/ Owens platoon, with Stewart getting most of the AB's but keeping him rested. The vets have to hit better. And they should. If PK and Dye can't hit for long stretches of the year, the sox aren't going anywhere. The bullpen can't be as bad. But they need to add at least one solid arm for the 7th, 8th inning. Someone like Jason Frasor from Tor. The sox if they keep Jon would only have Crede and guys like Aardsma, Massett, and Sisco for trade. They will likely only get solid arm from that pool of guys. And IIRC, those three are out of options. Only one of those arms should be around come spring. Or bring them all back to fight for one spot. They may actually boost their trade value if they can get some outs in spring. It can't get much lower. The rotation seems set. But Floyd needs a spot as he'll be out of options. Danks needs to step it up. Contreras might be the odd man out, though he's likely to improve after going through his divorce. A few teams will likely offer a decent bullpen arm for him. It might be selling low. But the sox could then hold onto Jon with the possibility of selling high in July.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 04:46 AM) No they're not, and I'm going to make a detailed post on this tonight. The main thing, they have the starting pitching to contend next season, IF, they decide to hold onto Garland. A few changes mainly to the pen and bringing in a new leadoff hitter and this team can contend next season IMHO, at least for a wildcard spot. IMO, that's a decent bet. Esp if the sox don't the right offer for Jon. They don't have to deal him. They can sort through offers after teams drool over Silva and other scrap arms. If no one meets the asking price--similar to the Jennings deal--keep Jon for 2008.

Has anyone seen Hunter's splits vs LHP the last 3 yrs? He's killed them. .308/.365/.547 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...p;type=batting3

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 02:34 AM) He's better than great. He has a chance to be one of the top ten best players to ever play the game, with the way his career has started off. This really doesn't need to be said, but his top three comps on baseball-reference through age 24? Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey and Frank Robinson. As far as him getting fatter and lazier, yeah, he's probably going to end up at first base, but if there's one guy who can get through to him, that guy is going to be Ozzie. Maybe it's wrong of me to have so much faith in Ozzie, but if Cabrera were to become a White Sock, I'm 100% confident that Guillen would keep his ass in baseball shape. And as far as what to give up? Well, you can start off by asking Florida what type of prospects they're looking for in return for Jon Garland (ie getting a third team involved and sending those prospects to Florida). Then you can add to that Fields, Anderson/Sweeney, and probably two of Danks/Egbert/Gio/DLS. I don't even think Egbert fits into that group, as scouts don't really like Egbert's stuff (that's not an indictment on Egbert, mind you, just an indictment on his trade value). That would net Florida two B prospects (Garland's return), a solid LF or 3B that they'd control in Fields, a chance at an average CFer with plus defense (Sweeney or Anderson) and two middle of the rotation starters in a combo of Danks/Gio/DLS. Unfortunately, there's no *elite* talent in that group (DLS isn't one yet), and I think Florida may be looking for more of a home-run return (like they got in Hanley Ramirez). IMO, Ozzie gets what he wants this offseason. Somehow, I don't think Kenny can con Ozzie into getting any more "grinders". If Cabrera is who Ozzie wants, and the sox match up [Fields, Gio are 2 very good pieces to start, esp, Gio being the local boy], why not. Getting a 24 yr old who can hit like him would be a great addition for 2008 and in the years ahead.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) You're talking about an organziation that signed Jaret Wright after he failed an intial physical. I think the Yankees see Crede as a stop gap for 3B and need to dump one of their high priced OF's. good point. Damon definitely needs to be dumped. Few teams are going to take a flyer on him with his big contract. That the yanks may get a starting 3b on the cheap [at worst to platoon with Betemit], is a bonus.

I also think KW has a deal that's almost done. It sounds like the players might be decided upon but some details still need to be hammered out [like money coming back to the sox in a Crede-Damon deal]. Why else would KW be so obvious, he has no reason to play coy or hint about a deal? Also, if the sox are going to add a Type A free agent [like Hunter or Rowand] this is the year to do it. The sox only stand to lose a 2nd rd pick rather than a 1st round pick in the draft. Seeing how the sox haven't pick lower than this in years, and they'd lose a higher pick then, this chance to pick this low and still sign a FA may not [hopefully] come around often.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 01:36 AM) Damon LF (Crede trade) Eckstein SS (Free agent) Thome DH Konerko 1B Dye RF Hunter/Rowand CF (Free Agent) AJ C Fields 3B Richar 2B I think this is a realistic guess. This lineup provides added speed and bat handling at the top of the order, excellent OF defense, but decreases infield D. This can be accomplished without trading a pitcher. Not paying Crede or Uribe plus money from the Yankees could make this financially possible. KW is the most exciting GM in baseball. He could pull off greatness like 2005 or he may not. He will have the balls to try. You substitute Furcal with Eckstein and why not. Though Hunter/ Rowand would be hard to pay, esp. with the holes in the bullpen. the sox could do a Owens/ Rocco Baldelli [who should be relatively easy to acquire] platoon in CF and still be able to afford upgrades to the pen. Though if the sox traded Garland for Furcal, they could likely get a solid bullpen arm back.

Seeing how KW has a habit of listening to ballplayers, Damon and Jermaine played 4 yrs together in KC. Dye would know whether Damon would be a good fit for the Sox. For LF, I wouldn't have a problem with a Damon + cash for Crede deal.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 08:26 PM) Explain to me how his performance in Sept means nothing? I dont get totally throwing out one month of the season because you deem it worthless. Based on Jerry's numbers, and his improvement, there is no doubt that him and Crisp are very similar players at extremely different price tags. Unless a team is in the playoff hunt in Sept., a lot of games are meaningless--AAA pitchers, and young defenders litter rosters at this time. I think Owens month showed some promise. Was it enough to not upgrade? that's the question. That the sox seem very intent on upgrading CF with a bigger name says something about how they view Owens. Or that they have plans to move Fields to 3b and slide Owens to LF.

Owens is only 1 year and 3 months younger than Crisp [who broke into the bigs 4 years earlier than Owens did]. It's hard to argue that Owens will match Crisp production in the long term, let alone the next two years.

If the Dodgers sign A-Rod, then Furcal should be dealt. I'd rather the sox do that then get stuck for 4 years of Eckstein. However, with no deal likely before Wed.'s deadline to re-up Uribe, the sox will keep Uribe. They can still make a deal for Furcal [or another SS] later by having Uribe around for backup SS, 2b with Richar and 3b for Crede/ Fields.

I see the sox bringing in another starting SS, such as Eckstein. But Uribe will also be around as insurance/platoon to play 2b, 3b and SS.

The sox shouldn't trade Crede. It may come to that point at the deadline. But his value has never been lower now. What Joe can give the sox [or any team] with his defense and power for $4, 5 mill, is very, very valuable. What Joe showed in 2006 playing hurt [building on the 2005 postseason], with his added confidence, and stellar defense, [the increased power and avg--though still low OBP], IMO, shows what he's capable of for the next 5 years. Joe played the 2006 season and seemed to carry himself with an ease and confidence level that he hadn't shown in previous years. So instead of declining, I believe Joe is capable of actually improving on most of his hitting numbers. On September 1, 2006, Joe was hitting .300/.333/.543 with 28 HR's. If he can stay near that level of production leading up the deadline, with his defense, he might be a guy the sox want to sign to a deal before he hits free agency. That doesn't mean Joe will be worth a 4 year deal at $10 mill per. But his 2008 salary should be very reasonable.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) I just opened the latest Sports Illustrated and on page 32 Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus said the Red Sox will most definitley trade Coco Crisp and the White Sox seem like the likely candidate. It has Boston sending Crisp to the Sox for 1B Chris Carter. Carter was third in Class A Sally League with 25 homers. This seems like a KW type move to me... Crisp out in LF sounds good. If KW decides to bring Rowand back we would have one hell of a defensive outfield. Boston would probably want someone who could help them in 2008-maybe an arm or two like Sisco, Aardsma.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 07:04 PM) He's far and away better than Owens. People are putting way too much into Owens' .342 Sept. batting average. Crisp has 50 steals the last 2 seasons, and been caught 10 times. He has struggled a bit in Boston, but was pretty good in Cleveland, and is reasonably priced. I agree. Crisp should be more comfortable back in the AL central.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 12:02 AM) Pretty extreme there buddy. If they're pretty close next season, then Fields didn't progress at all. Joe's missed near a whole season to go with his major surgery. I don't see how anyone can say with any assurance that he'll match his career year in 2006. Perhaps he'll regain form in 2009, perhaps, but it's going to take time for Joe to find himself. I guess I should have used green. My point is Crede is hardly washed up. And that Fields may not make huge gains in all categories in 2008. Many rookies have struggled in their 2nd year after the league has solved them. Fields still has some holes in his swing that he needs to correct. IMO, if the sox didn't think Josh would make those corrections down the road, they may want to "sell high" to fill other needs--which was the point of this thread

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) It's not like Fields is a stiff out there. He's moves pretty good. It's now just a matter of adjustments. He's will improve defensively at either 3B or LF. Prediction: Fields' OBP, SLG, HR total, and RBI total next season will all be higher than anything Joe Crede puts up in a single season for the rest of his career. I guess Crede is either all washed up or Fields is bound for the hall of fame. I think Joe has a lot of life left in him and Fields has potential. But if we're talking 2008, they should be pretty even.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 06:58 PM) That's a strange way of looking at it. Fields has consistently, throughout the minors, drawn walks at a higher rate than Crede has. Fields had more walks (35) in his 100 games in MLB last year, than Crede has put up in any of his seasons with the Sox (34 was his high in 144 games in 04). Fields drew a combined 74 walks between AAA and the Sox last season. The numbers are pretty even. Though Fields has improved as of late, he should find it tougher to lay off pitches in the majors and draw more walks than he did in the minors. .292/.353/.464 in 2761 ab’s--Crede in minors; .280/.360/.464 in 1400 ab’s—Fields in minors;

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 03:34 AM) You forget a panamanian who was rotten at 3rd, who moved out to left and looked foolish at times until he learned to play a semi decent left field. Left field is not rocket science. While Fields defense in LF plays a part, it's more his offense that will decide his future. He's going to K a lot and hit a lot of HR's. But can he improve his OBP and his avg? That is most important. IF the sox don't think Fields can hit for avg [.280 +] and be more patient [lay off pitches out of the zone and a .350 + OBP], then his value may never be higher now. Many 1/2 year rookies have initial success before the league figures how to pitch to them. the sox have to decide if Fields can make the adjustments or not. Forgetting the money, right now, Fields is a lesser Joe Crede without the defense.

I could see some sort of platoon arrangement at SS that would allow Uribe to shift between 2b, SS and 3b for 2008.

Fields power numbers are great. But if his defense at 3b is only avg at best [that's not to say he can't improve in the future] and LF is a stretch for him, and the sox don't think he'll be a consistent near .300 hitter in the future, with much better plate discipline [better than .350 OBP], I could see Fields being moved in the right deal. Esp. if the sox think Fields may not hit for avg. and OBP much better than Crede, but minus the defense at 3b. I guess it would come down to how healthy Crede is. But that won't be known until the year starts and how well Joe plays. So to answer the question, no I don't see Fields being moved this offseason. But I could if the sox could strike a deal for a healthy, 2006 form Crede.

If one was to say who out there [who might possibly be available via trade] that would be most valuable to the Sox, and who would compliment the current roster, Carl Crawford would be definitely be a top 3 name. Crawford would be far more valuable to the sox, with his blend of speed, defense, and ability to hit near .300, than some of the names mentioned. That isn't to say he's the player to "build around" if you had a blank roster. But as someone to add to the current Sox roster, Crawford would be more valuable than most.