beck72

QUOTE(rockren @ Jan 12, 2008 -> 01:10 AM) I agree that was probably a sticking point....we wanted Figgins....they wanted to give Matthews. Something along those lines was probably the deal breaker. However if they had the chance to get Erv, Howie and Speier for Konerko....they should've jumped all over it and have worried about who their leadoff hitter was later. Hell if we got Kendrick...I could stomach Jerry Owens in CF leading off. IMO, the sticking point is can the Angels improve their lineup enough to not have to trade for Konerko? It sounds like an internal debate among those in the angels front office. With that lineup, 3b is the spot to get that big bat to protect Vlad. Yet Rolen looks like the only bat that could help them. Is he healthy enough to make a difference? That's a risk. The smart money says they should hold tight, and pick up a bat at the deadline. They should be good enough to take that division. Though Seattle with Bedard [if that deal gets done] should be improved. Yet if Vlad goes down, can they win? The Angels nemesis has been lack of power. And Torri Hunter alone hasn't improved the Angels that much.

The Angels front office has to decide if they can get a stud for 3b via trade. I don't see it at this late date. Their best bet to get that slugger may be PK. If the Angels deal for PK, they may decide to hold onto Figgins for 3b and to hit leadoff.

IMO, the angels would not put Kendrick in any trade. If they dealt for PK, they'd have to trade Kotchman, another young hitter. Or less likely, they'd have to eat most of GMJ's contract, and move PK to DH. The angels would leave a big hole at 2b and have a huge logjam at 1b/ DH.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 05:07 PM) Im not saying whether we will trade Konerko or not but you are looking wayyyy too much into it. Having too many veteran leaders can impact young players. A guy like Swisher seems to be a "take charge", free spirit. That may not sit well with some returning guys. The 2007 sox roster had been criticized by some as not having the right kind of intensity--more a collection of quiet professionals and not much personality. How will Cabrera and Swisher, who seem to be a bit different, fit in with everyone? It may take moving a "leader" in order to build some intensity, as well as fill some roster holes [such as CF, bullpen, SP depth, etc]. So from a variety of standpoints, such as moving PK while his value is high, before he gets 10 and 5 rights, to filling holes and remaking the roster, a deal could make sense.

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 03:36 PM) The scouting and player development has been the achilles' heel of this team. I guess it looks a little unorthodox at first and I was wondering how KW was going to overhaul our previously horrible scouting dept but it does kind of make sense. I really didn't expect him to completely (and I mean completely) gut our farm system though. I'd said something in the Swisher thread about the MLB roster being steady for the next couple of years while the bare cupboard down in the minors is replenished with (hopefully) better players as a result of better drafts, so that the farm system could end up stronger if it works out the right way. The way you said it is a lot more thorough though. In the meantime, the MLB roster isn't embarrassing like it was when we entered the offseason, and with a little luck the team could even be contenders. KW has "gutted" a farm system that hadn't produced like it should have. So that isn't that big a deal IMO. Instead, KW has brought in young major league talent at the expense of the unproductive farm system. Where KW has made mistakes is not holding the farm system and all the scouts accountable. Or if he was responsible for some of the mistakes made, not owning up to them.

A big hint that Konerko could be on the way out is how much the sox have tried to add vocal "leaders" this offseason in Orlando Cabrera and now Swisher. With Dye, MB and Thome already here, PK could be the odd man out. PK has always been viewed as a quiet, intense leader. With the new additions, the sox seem to be shaking things up as far as leadership goes. But if they have an intense guy like PK around, that might limit the ability of the new guys to speak out.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 02:17 PM) One point I strongly disagree with in his column is that the Chris Young trade was a bad trade for the White Sox. Vazquez is our #2 starter, and is coming off a very solid season. We expect him to continue at that level of productivity. Yes, Young hits HR's, and he probably will end up being a good player, but I don't regret that trade for a 2nd. I only wish the White Sox would find a way to add another veteran starting pitcher before the season begins. I also agree with you about the Young-Vazquez trade. And Young is the only prospect traded away--save for Jon Rauch--who has had decent contributions to a major league team. So for all the "gutting", how badly has it hurt. What it does say is how pitiful the sox farm system has been.

If you look at the true cost of the trade---Freddy Garcia, DLS and Sweeney for Swisher and Gavin Floyd--what's not to like about it? Esp. if Floyd can keep up his solid end of the year performance in 2008. Also, for the sox to trade Gio a second time, to me means they weren't really confident about him.

Swisher must live in Ohio in the offseason. Interesting new workout routine. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/24/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin

With Swisher's best position being 1b, maybe. People talked about using PK as the best way to get talent to compete with the likes of Det. and Cle. He'd certainly bring about a nice haul that would make the sox younger and possibly better in the short and long term. I wouldn't be surprised. I'm sure Kenny has a good idea of PK's worth and has had teams [esp. the Angels] make possible offers.

FWIW, Baseball Cube had Swisher with a range factor of 2.62 in CF. Owens had a 2.65, and Rowand had a 2.64 [and 2.57 in '06 and '05]. If Swisher can play CF on a regular basis and not be a butcher out there, it will help the overall lineup for the short term.

Another factor in considering the trade is the sox showing improvement in their drafting [and scouting in Latin America, ala DLS]. The farm system can improve pretty quickly. KW has done well in years past trading young minor leaguers who haven't amounted to much, overall. And has gotten solid major league talent in return. If the draft system improves and gives the sox REAL talent, I'm not worried. With the state of sox farm system the last decade, it can't help but improve.

At first, I was shocked at both Gio and DLS included. Yet the sox are trying to win in the next few years. Swisher gives them another young hitter to build around along with Fields, and Quentin. I can't fault KW for making a gutsy move like this. There didn't seem to be many moves that could make the sox able to challenge the Tigers or Indians. At least this helps the short term sox. I still see the sox needing more pitching, esp. the bullpen. We'll see what kind of arm a healthy Crede can bring. The long term... well. The sox have assets to trade if they need to rebuild.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 29, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) Yeah... we knew this a month ago. Except many news reports still link Crisp as part of a deal for Santana.

From this article, it sounds like any deal involving Santana has to involve a CFer. GEtting a young, inexpensive CFer locked up for years makes the most sense for the Twins. Crisp going to the Twins makes no sense. If the sox have been in contact with Boston for Crisp, a deal should get done after the Santana deal is / is not completed. Though the Red sox should hang onto Ellsbury, and his name is not often mentioned in deals. http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/12905596.html

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2007 -> 04:42 AM) Of the cubs prospects? I have them 5 and 6 from BA. Neither are in the top 50, and I believe only Veal is top 100 if that. Yeah, that. Looking at a package like that, it wouldn't cost the sox an arm and a leg for Roberts. If Richar was involved, you have to look at what Aaron Cunningham's value as a prospect would have been to the sox [which would have been in the top 10]. In that light, a package of Richar and an arm like Egbert [5 or so on the sox prospect list] would be in line with the Cubs proposed offer. Looking at John Sickels grades of the Sox top prospects heading into 2007, he had Lance Broadway #4 at a B- grade and Cunningham at #6 with a B- grade. So a package of Broadway and Richar would be similar to the Cubs by this marker.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 11:22 PM) If Gallagher and Veal are in it, then Gio or DLS will likely have to be in the deal from our side. After those two for us, we have no one at Gallagher and Veal's level. Not that that would change my mind. I would love to get Roberts. Roberts isn't worth a deal involving one of those two. John Sickels has Gallagher and Veal rated #3 and #7 with grades of B and B- respectively.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 09:57 PM) There's no question he had to do something. Funny thing is a lot of the same people that said you don't pay that kind of money for a middle reliever, cough Justin Speier, cough, like this move. It may not work out in the long haul, but it had to be done. I still think the bullpen needs more than just Linebrink. I think everyone including [Ozzie and KW] knows the bullpen needs more help. It'll be interesting to see how they add another Linebrink type 8th inning guy as free agency is toast. Crede alone won't get it done.

QUOTE(TheKillerB's @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 06:00 PM) It's going to cost a lot more than Richar and a few throw in arms (ala Masset/Aardsma/Sisco). If this is going to happen it would be something more like Richar, Broadway/Egbert/Gio, and then one or two of those arms. Atleast thats what I figure according to what other teams such as the scrubs are offering. The cubs had reportedly offered Sean Gallagher and Donald Veal, though the O's supposedly asked for Hill and Pie. Not sure what is fact or fiction. If the former is what might get Roberts, the sox should be able to get something done.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) Would this be KW with 50 cents and spending a nickle in his way of thinking? I am not ripping or praising the move time will tell. IMO, it's more a matter of getting younger talent who have a decent upside at an affordable price. A move such as this shouldn't keep the sox from adding a more proven player for either Cf or 2b.

If Richar could be part of a package [and an arm or two that do not have a long term future with the sox--Masset/ Sisco/ Aardsma] to acquire Roberts I could see a deal being made. 2b is typcially one of the easier spots to fill in the future if the sox didn't hang onto Roberts long term. They could make a play for Orlando Hudson after 2008. Yet Roberts could fill the spot hitting leadoff as well. And it wouldn't hurt the sox ability to get a CFer such as Crisp. Going with a LF and CF of Quentin, Owens, with options of Sweeney and Brian Anderson doesn't seem a playoff caliber OF.

Quentin's ability to get on base, while not clogging the bases, could be huge for the sox. That kind of hitting eye he showed in the minors is hard to teach.

QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 08:01 AM) so, let me get this straight we basically just signed a bench player, and that makes this team noticably better? why did we sign cabrera and linebrink, then sign a guy who probably won't even be on the team in 2008 but instead be in AAA, along with signing basically a AAA left fielder who was injured last year how do these moves make this team better and more competitive for 2008? The sox need to get younger more versatile players [not just in the field, but at the plate, on the bases, etc]. Along with Richar, Fields, Quentin, Ramirez seems to fit that mold. Getting guys who are near major league ready to play every day who can compliment the current roster of vets like Dye, Thome, PK, and AJ, isn't that bad a plan. While this signing might not help the sox in 2008, it would seem to help give the sox some options in the near future.

Sounds like a utility guy to start, or come from AAA to help in case of an injury. Yet someone who can help in 2009. The sox still need to add a CFer to hit leadoff.

The first thing I think of is--"Willis is hurting".