beck72

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 22, 2008 -> 03:44 AM) It amazes me that we always list these type of contracts for other teams ... then say quickly the Sox would never want the guy. Somebody pointed out a concern Garland was one of the worst pitchers in the league last year. Yet he's gonna get four years at 8 mill a year and we won't offer him anything? Why are these players good enough for other teams and not the Sox? (see posts on CC being fat and arm weary). Kenny Williams isn't going to spend outrageous money [and length in years] on free agents, particularly starting pitching with the higher risk of injury. That's not his MO. He wants players of good value, even if it means trading players for it. Right now, there are a lot of teams stuck with bloated contracts for both pitchers and position players. It's hard to argue with his style, esp for pitching. Getting Freddy Garcia, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks and Floyd were all solid deals.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 21, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) Hmm. Javy is coming off a similar year to the year before we gave up some value to get him. Of course KW cant trade with himself, but perhaps there's a like-minded trade partner out there who will peg Javy as a decent middle of the rotation starter. In the NL, Javy would be a #2 for many teams. If Kenny traded Javy this offseason, he'd more than likely get a better package than what he gave up in Chris Young, Vizcaino and El Duque.

Garland should get a decent deal from a NL team [probably along the lines of what Marquis got, though I could see a 3, 4 yr deal, at $8, 9 mill per yr]. The sox should stay far away from that.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 20, 2008 -> 05:49 PM) Here's my line of thinking on this scenario. I am a backer of Vazquez, who's not exactly flavor of the month round these parts after his finish to the season. Milwaukee is going to lose both Sheets and C.C most likely. Now they could try to sign a FA SP such as Garland, but if I was KW, I'd offer them Vazquez to see what I could get in return. Rickie Weeks for CF for instance (possible B.J Upton type impact?). The Mets are another team that may lose Perez and will need a replacement. So we have options there. That's thinking outside the box. I don't know how Week would be in CF. But I could see something like getting a bat for Javy if the sox sign a Freddy Garcia, or get a 5th Starter type via trade elsewhere.

Vazquez has a ton of value. Teams know they can get 30 starts, 200 + innings and K's, and a 4.25 ERA in the AL from him. While he's not a big game pitcher, he can help a team get the playoffs with his ability to eat innings and keep a team in the game. If Javy could net the sox a SP who could be in the 2009 rotation plus another solid contributor in the bullpen or a young position player, I could see him being moved. But it would have to be a good return.

The sox should trade for a SP like Justin Duchsherer. He's a bit of a risk. Yet he's got an upside as a #1 or a #2 SP if healthy. That way, Javy moves down to be the 5th SP. If Poreda can be ready by the All star break [or Contreras], and Richard could be the 5th SP, why not. But I'd also look to add, via trade, a SP prospect that could start the year in AA and be ready for AAA by June, and possibly be ready for the 2nd half. In addition, I'd add a vet who could be in the AAA rotation to serve as insurance.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Oct 14, 2008 -> 04:43 PM) I think you might see Beckham at 3B and Getz at 2B in '09. Maybe. I agree on Getz for 2b. If the sox think Beckham could be in Chicago in 2009, I could see Fields starting at 3B. Esp. if the sox sign Uribe to be the UTL guy. Of all the names for 3b, few make sense for the short or long term if you look at the price in terms of trade or dollars. A healthy Fields has just as good a chance as any of the FA's or likely trade targets to put up decent numbers. Not to mention Fields could improve his trade value with a decent start to 2009. With Uribe around as a defensive replacement, having Fields around makes decent sense.

QUOTE (SEALgep @ Oct 18, 2008 -> 12:22 AM) Anyone see us making a run on Lowe? I can see KW picking up another starter this offseason. I see KW adding another SP via trade. But not Lowe.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 09:33 PM) Agreed. NOT a statistical liability in the 2 or 9 hole, depending on his performance. He COULD be the ideal 2 hitter we haven't had since the early days of Tadahito. Kind of a lefty Theriot. We'll see. Regardless, I think KW knows better than anyone that 2B is traditionally the easiest position to fill. Heck, our last two came neither from trade, nor the farm system, nor from conventional FA, but from Japan and Cuba. I'm thinking his highest priorities are 3B, CF, an upgrade over Javy in the rotation, and one more good bullpen arm. In no particular order, and completely dependent on his gut feelings about the potential contributions of guys like Wise, Fields, Owens, BA, Richard, Broadway, Russell etc. Maybe Contreras or Poreda fills one of the pitching priorities by mid-season, but KW probably won't count on it. I see either Konerko or Dye + Fields, other prospects, in a trade. It will be tough to say goodbye to either, given their huge contributions to the team's success. I'll bet KW'd love to have Uribe back as the backup for the infield, but he probably agrees with most of us, and doesn't want him as a starter. He's going to have to wait to see what the market offers JU. On more thing - people need to stop talking about Buehrle and Jenks like they're greybeards or something. They're still part of our (relatively) youthful core at (barely) 30 and 28 entering next season. Sure, Buehrle's logged a lot of innings in his career, but he's not going to lose the intangibles that make him a winner anytime soon. Among these are: He's smart, He's a fast worker, which helps to keep the defense on their toes He doesn't overthink an at bat, but he has a plan for every batter He leads the universe in double-play grounders He's an excellent fielder He's excellent at holding runners, easily our best His ability to pickoff runners is virtually nonpareil He's a very positive influence on youngsters like Danks and Richard, and soon Poreda He keeps himself in shape and is consistently healthy He doesn't rely on power, so age should be less of a factor HE'S GOT BALLS! MB's going to win his 250th game when he's 38 or so, hopefully in a Sox uni. Big Bad Bobby is very, very good, looking at the meaningful statistics in his young career. Seeing the way he was bringin' it in game 3 last week, I have very few doubts about him. Welcome aboard. Can't find much to disagree with at all

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 06:51 PM) He's got limited power and only decent OBP. He has a spot on the team, and I'm not saying he wouldn't be valuable, just that, statistically, he would be a liability. He seems to fit the Eckstein/Miles mold pretty well. I just thought you were comparing him to Cintron. Cintron's OBP was only 30 points higher than his avg. Getz has avg'd 70 pts more than his batting avg. Getz had some pop this yr. But that's not what is needed from him.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 07:04 PM) Why overpay for a CF when your Centerfielder last year had what was by all accounts, a year that was a statistical aberration, and is almost assured to have a turnaround year next year? I agree Swisher will likely rebound. But he's not a leadoff hitter, which is what the sox need. If the sox trade either PK or Dye, then Swisher will take over their spots. I guess the question would be who fills in and hits #1 if not from a trade for someone who plays CF, 2b or 3b?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) Chris Getz is almost certainly going to be a statistical liability at .280...if he hits .260 he's probably going to be worse than Alex Cintron. How so? Getz' M.O. is supposedly making contact, walking as much as striking out, being able to situational hit, having on OBP about 60 points higher than avg, with some ability to steal bases, and decent defense. Getz may not hit .280 right away. But a comparison to Cintron?! Not likely.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 03:29 PM) I am on your mindset. Why overpay for a second baseman when Getz seems like he can be a very solid right away in all facets of the game. Why now get a top 3rd baseman or CF via FA/trade so that the lineup become balanced. I am very confident that Getz can hit .280 right away. From all accounts, Getz should be the type of contact hitting, decent avg., good OBP, good fielding that we have been looking to provide more balance to the lineup. If he's in the #9 hole, he could hit .260 and be a plus to the sox. .280 would be a huge bonus. Getz is definitely not the only answer. But he could play a big part by hitting .260 with a .320 + OBP and fielding his position as a rookie. The sox have limited resources from which to improve the club and need to know which players to "cut bait" on and which to keep. Getz looks like a keeper.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 04:28 AM) Aside from swapping nobody pitchers for nobody prospects like the Horacio Ramirez deal, I believe Kenny and Dayton are done dealing with each other. The Royals are on the rise and ownership has stated they will be spending some money over the offseason. I expect them to very active and I expect them to have a much better team next year. Even though it doesn't seem like it, the Royals took a big step this year. They finished 4th, ahead of the Tigers of all teams. KC is on the rise. What they need though is starting pitching. I could see some sort of deal for DeJesus with Javier Vazquez going down. Both are signed for 2 more years. Aviles could then take over at leadoff for KC. The more I think about it, the sox should keep Getz at 2b to hit #9. Then make the big play for a CFer who can hit leadoff, even if they have to overpay. Vazquez alone won't get DeJesus. But it's a decent starting point. Javy showed the sox what he's made of and should be sent packing.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 09:44 AM) there's really only three players on this team that i would throw a hissy fit if we traded dye, jenks, and buehrle i have no logical reasoning for my love for these guys, though the 2005 world series has a lot to do with it i'm sure I agree with Jenks and Mark. But trading Quentin, Ramirez, Floyd or Danks would rank juat as high in my book.

The bullpen needs to be strengthened. Trading Jenks would weaken it big time. Right behind adding a top of the order hitter is an 8th inning set up man [who could take Linebrink's spot if Scott can't come back from injury] would be tops on my to do list.

QUOTE (Cowch @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 02:45 PM) The more I think about it, the less I want Figgins and Hudson. I wouldn't mind them, but I don't want them as much as other players. I hope KW thinks similar to me. Figgins likely won't be dealt. And Hudson will probably get a 4, 5 yr deal from someone [prob. the Mets].

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 01:16 AM) Ryan Sweeney and Aaron Cunningham are veritable locks for the A's OF. Barton should start at 1B and Gonzalez in CF, but I guess those things could change. I think the A's will give those two every opportunity to start however. Cust will be the DH, so there's really no room IMO for a veteran that will definitely start over one of their young guys. Oakland will probably look fro another cheap one year power option like they did with Frank Thomas and Mike Sweeney this year. If we want Duch or Street, Fields might be a great place to start. They have that Hanrahan guy or whatever that they got from the Tigers pencilled in, and he sucks. If the Sox sign a 2B, Oakland should be interested in Getz if Cardenas isn't ready. Getz seems like a Billy Beane type of player. Then there's Boone Logan, who could interest them. Beane loves to buy low on relievers with big arms. Getz + Fields + Logan I think might get us one of those guys, but that deal could easily backfire on us. If the Sox try to trade a package like that I'd like to see them first target someone with a better track record of both performance and health. I was just going by the link to the Contra Costa article where BB said he wanted power for the short and long term. It said that Beane didn't want to give up prospects. I inferred from that vets like Duch and Street would most likely be the bait. One or both would help the sox. I look at Street and see a Lidge type rebound for 2009. Signing a FA really isn't smart for Beane, as he'd give up draft picks. It sounds like he's willing to take on some salary for the right bat. They've gone cheap for power bats and it hasn't worked out.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 10:37 PM) They wont want the contracts coming with either. If the A's want power, which the link stated, a power bat doesn't come cheap. It would be better for the A's getting a Dye or Konerko than paying for a free agent.

In looking at MLB trade rumors for the A's, they said the A's will be looking for power this offseason. Would they want Dye or Konerko? Get Duchscherer and Huston Street? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/as-to-seek-more.html

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 12:11 AM) But why would BB trade Duchscherer now, instead of waiting? #1, he's still on the DL, correct? Or no? Can he even be traded? He would have to clear a ton of physical exams from Sox doctors, and we've been on the other side of this situation with Mike Sirotka once before...it would be like KW trading Konerko, he could get a lot more coming off a normal, healthy, .285, 30+, 100+ RBI season than this one. Especially with the overvaluation of pitchers, he has no reason not to wait it out and rebuild his value. Duchsherer will likely get a big jump in salary in arb. due to his being a SP. He made $1.2 mill as a bullpen guy. Beane has enough young SP's around who pitch for meal money. If Beane can get a decent return, I don't see why he wouldn't deal Duch. While we're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing what Huston Street's asking price is.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:47 PM) I doubt Colorado trades Atkins. In the NL West, they can win that division. If they do, it's going to take a lot to get him- Getz, Richard, Poreda, and maybe Fields. I'm not sure if I'd do that. that's the thing. The sox have the peices for one big deal. It should be for a leadoff hitter rather than a middle of the order guy

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 12:31 PM) There's too many question marks about Justin, Crede and Taveras to make those moves... [i]Why are we trading away Clayton Richard, who actually showed something in the playoffs? Because he's a Sox pitching prospect and we simply believe that he will fail like every starter since Buehrle?[/i] I still don't trust taking an injured pitcher off the hands of BB...if he's healthy, he holds onto him for half the season while he re-establishes his league-leading ERA, if he's not 100% healthy or cleared by the doctors' exams, he's not going anywhere and Beane knows it. 1) Beltre 2) Casey Blake 3) Melvin Mora 4) Garrett Atkins 5) Kevin Kouzmanoff Any of those aforementioned would be better options than Crede/Uribe at 3B again in 2009 IMO. NOT TO MENTION THE MOST POPULAR CHOICE OF SOX FANS, CHONE FIGGINS! A few things. *Richard is likely not a SP. He has a lot of value now as teams may gamble that he can be one. But if he fails as a SP, his value will drop off a lot. If the sox want to make some trades, they have to give up some decent players. I like Richard in the bullpen a lot. For that reason alone, he might be too valuable to trade. Yet he's not going to be the sox 5th starter and shouldn't be if the sox are trying to get back to the playoffs. *Beltre would be nice at 3b. But if the sox want a leadoff man [such as Roberts], most of their trade talent will go toward getting him. Same with Atkins and Kouzmanoff. Mora's bat would be nice. But his glove isn't there. If Crede's prognosis looks good, keep him around. *Duchsherer had a hip injury. If it was his arm, I'd be leery. The sox need another SP who could put Vazquez as the 5th starter. And then the sox would have Poreda as the next option in case someone goes down. *The sox need a speedy, good glove in CF. Esp. if Dye is in RF. While Taveras has holes, he'd fit the bill of speed at the bottom without sacraficing defense. The sox aren't going to find a CF who can steal bases, play solid defense and who can hit leadoff. Might as well get 2 of 3.

White sox 2008 offseason moves: 1. trade for Brian Roberts [that way, SS/ 2b isn’t blocked for Beckham in 2010-which signing Orlando Hudson would have] 2. trade for a speedy CFer who can play stellar defense [not ideal, but Willy Taveras] 3. Trade for Justin Duchsherer [31]-had hip surgery, will be less expensive to get than he was at the deadline; [Josh Fields] Note: Both Roberts and Duchsherer would get the Sox draft picks if they leave as FA’s after 2009-so what talent they give up now they’ll get back some; Re-signing Duchsherer to a deal if he has success in 2009 would allow the sox to trade Vasquez after 2009 4. trade Jermaine Dye, Fields; Brian Anderson; Clayton Richard; Logan; 5. re-sign Crede to a one yr deal and Uribe for utility IF [no good options at 3b] Lineup: 1. Brian Roberts 2b 2. Swisher RF 3. Quentin LF [R] 4. Thome DH [L] 5. Konerko 1b [R] 6. Ramirez SS [R] 7. AJ c [L] 8. Crede 3b [R] 9. Willy Taveras CF [R]

The sox had a great year. They far exceeded expectations of everyone, probably even KW. With the breakouts of two stellar young SP's in Danks, Floyd, an MVP type, #3 hitter in 26 yr old Quentin, and a SS to build the IF around in Ramirez, 2008 was a huge plus for the long term success of the Sox.