beck72

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 07:00 PM) Would the Orioles be interested in Jenks? Maybe. The Orioles do have a bunch of AA SP's [that would be able to start the year in AAA] that the sox could choose from. Bradley Bergesen looks like an arm that could develop and help the sox. But it doesn't make sense to get a closer when the lineup is atrocious.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 07:46 PM) Street is crap. The only reason Street might not be a good get would be if he wasn't healthy, and the price would be too high in terms of talent to acquire him. He's a proven arm.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 05:47 PM) I would take Taveras, Atkins, and Street in a heartbeat, if that's what you're implying, Kalapse. I don't want Taveras to lead off, but I'd sure take him batting 9th. I'd take Atkins easily. And I'd take Street, believing that he's likely to improve at least slightly under Cooper. You then flip Jenks for a nice package, and we have ourselves a pretty sweet offseason already. If the sox used up the talent to acquire Atkins, they wouldn't have enough for a leadoff guy. I guess it would depend on what the sox got for Jenks, though, and if the leadoff guy would be part of that deal.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 06:39 PM) I'd bet big money that the Sox are shopping MacD, hoping to get something, anything for him. It's probably more a case of taking on someone else's bad contract.

If teams would be willing to give up as much for Thornton as they would for Jenks, the sox would probably jump at the chance. Yet I don't see that many teams willing to do that on a guy not proven as a closer.

I don't think the sox trade Poreda regardless. It's probably too early to say he's just a bullpen arm. Yet until he adds another pitch, though, he should be in the bullpen. IIRC, Danks added his cutter in the Spring. Poreda adds another pitch, and he'd be as valuable if not more than Danks or Floyd. His "floor" [the lowest projection for him] is still pretty high. Yet his "ceiling" is one in which you build a team around an arm like his.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 05:45 PM) Depends on what you mean by "Threw like he has been". If he threw like the has-been he threw like last year, then he wouldn't really be that valuable. The stats showed Street can still get people out, whether it's in set up or closing, with only a slight uptick in ERA. If the sox do trade for him, I'd hazard to guess they went over the medical records with a fine toothed comb. You can never have too many solid bullpen arms, and options to close. IMO, Street would be a solid addition to what the sox already have.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 03:10 PM) If we got the career Willy Taveras and the career Huston Street and the Rockies got the career Nick Swisher then I think that would be a steal for us. But, there is a lot of risk on both sides. If they get the 2006 Swisher and we get the 2008 versions of Taveras and Street then it could go down as one of the worst trades ever for Kenny Williams. I think this deal is likely too, and congrats for thinking of it first. Are you Kenny Williams? This seems likely because the deal probably splits Sox fans down the middle, with half loving it and half hating it, and that's what happens a lot of the time when Kenny's big moves go down. See post #57. I did call the Quentin trade last year, though, after Az. signed Byrnes to a long term deal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 01:12 PM) Do we really want any part of Street as a replacement for Jenks, or would it just be increasing the pool of talent (by committee) to go along with Dotel, Thornton, Poreda and Linebrink? On paper, those five make for a pretty imposing pen...maybe the greatest in baseball history, lol. I don't know if Street would be the closer. Yet he'd be another option if Jenks was traded. Either way, he would be valuable in set up if he threw like he has been.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 04:07 AM) Just sort of thinking out loud here. Adam Russell, Lance Broadway, ??? and/or ??? for Taveras and Street. Not saying I necessarily want this sort of thing to happen but it's kind of funny how two guys that KW has shown strong interest in within the past few months now happen to be on the same team and are almost certainly going to be dealt within in the next few months. I don't know who the ??? would be but I know they're looking for bullpen help and rotation depth, Broadway's name has come up already in connection with the Rockies and Russell seems like a decent enough trade chip when dealing with a low payroll team in need of cheap, possible high impact relievers. EDIT: Now that I think about it they also have Atkins who they're looking to unload. Yeesh I could easily see some sort a mega deal brewing between the Sox and Rox. I could see the Rockies wanting Swisher. They have a big need for a 3-5 hitter, which Swisher has been in the past could replace Holliday's OBP and HR power. Not to mention Swisher could play 1b, Lf or RF. Whether it takes only a Swisher to get Taveras and Street who knows. But adding Street could allow the sox to trade Jenks for even more talent.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 09:25 AM) Wouldn't that simply confirm the reports of his being a bit lazy if he isn't in shape for such an important workout. He's had months since he defected and should have known that he'd eventually have to work out for mlb teams, if you can't get yourself in shape in that period of time then there should be some major concerns about the kid's work ethic. I'd go by Alexi's and Jose's assessment of the kid's work ethic and the type of person he is more than one workout in front of a few scouts and how in shape he is. From all accounts, those two have done nothing but work their behinds off and should know if this kid is a winner. Now, unless the kid is orca fat and a complete slug, some kind of deal makes sense for the sox. We all remember how alexei's workout left every team except the sox unimpressed. I'd give the kid some leeway, esp. him being so young.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 01:29 AM) What do the Phils really have to offer though. I don't think they have enough to get the Sox to move Dye. Or at least they won't be willing to give up what it takes, nor do I believe they are good partners. I haven't really looked at what the Phils have for the sox or who they may be willing to part with. Yet in trying to repeat, and giving their team the best chance to win, they may be willing to give the best deal for JD.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 05:33 PM) In my opinion you have to KNOW someone can take over the role of the closer, or any critical role you are going to fill when you trade someone who has shown they are an ace closer. Bobby Jenks has shown he can do it and I still wonder if there wasn't something physically (or mentally) holding him back even though he was very successful. I continue to point out his fastball speed getting back up to 95 to 97 or so and that curve breaking like it did towards the last month or so. You don't give up someone like Jenks for maybe's and expect to win titles If the sox are thinking of trading Jenks, they must believe Poreda could be just as dominant as Bobby. Poreda's emergence as a stud [with the reports in the AFL] has come as the talk of Jenks being possibly on the block. I would find it hard to trade Jenks. But I could see why a deal could come together and make sense.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 04:53 PM) Dotel had Tommy John surgery in the middle of the 2005 season, on June 1st of that season to be exact. Typically, it takes one season to return, and then you should be fully recovered or even stronger the following season, which would have been the second half of the 2007 season. He had a shoulder strain in 2007 and missed about six weeks (August 10th-September 22nd), but I think any recovery we see from Dotel should already have happened 3 1/2 seasons since the surgery. That can't be an excuse any longer IMO. What you see is what you get, pretty much. I think the sox were very happy with what they got in Dotel. Esp. his 2.98 ERA in 42 1/3 IP at the All star break. The sox had to overuse him, and he wore down in the 2nd half. If there is any talk of trading Jenks [which there seems to be], Dotel would be vital to a strong bullpen in 2009. If the sox were unhappy with Dotel, they could use his good numbers K/ IP, decent ERA, etc. and trade him when he's got value. I haven't heard a peep about trading Dotel. The names that were being thrown out there by KW at the GM meetings are telling.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) I look at Dotel in almost the same way I view Vazquez. Both look really good on paper, but the reality finds something lacking. Now Dotel pitched well in the post-season, but I think you'll find a noticeable downtrend when Linebrink went down and Dotel had to pitch more often in the 8th, rather than just the 7th. In other words, and I don't have the statistic to prove it, whenever he had a really clutch or important game situation, it feels like he failed about 50% of the time. He always pitched great when he was just getting some work in or the lead was more than 2-3 runs, but he really struggled many times in either tie games or when we only had a lead of a couple of runs. In August, he had a 5.56 ERA and FIVE (YES, 5) homers surrendered in only 11 1/3 IP. This is back to my point about Dotel pitching WORSE when Linebrink went down (around July 22nd) and he had to be the 8th inning guy, not just the 7th. September, a so-so 4.32 ERA and two homers in 8 1/3 IP. All told, he gave up 7 HOMERS in less than 20 IP over two plus months. That's something Arnie Munoz and Charlie Haeger might struggle to do if they tried. I lost count of how many walk-off or game "losing" homers Linebrink and Dotel accounted for. His ERA went from 2.85 to 3.76 during this critical time period when the SOX were dying out there in the bullpen (The DJ Carrasco Wilderness, I like to think of it as). Dotel isn't Vazquez-like. He's coming back from injury and hadn't pitched the number of innings he did this year since IIRC, 2004. Vazquez hasn't had any excuses. Dotel had every reason to wear down like he did at year's end. Yet I don't think I heard word one from Dotel about using that as an excuse.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 03:08 PM) No, you don't put Beltran in the leadoff spot. You need to take advantage of his run producing ability and put him somewhere in the middle of the lineup. I'd personally bat him cleanup behind Quentin. Who's your leadoff man, if CF is filled by Beltran and Getz/ Nix are at 2b? Unless both Dye and Swisher are traded, there aren't many spots for someone to hit #1. The sox have enough 4-7 hitters [with Dye, Thome, PK, Alexei]. They don't have guys at the top.

I would do the Jenks + Vazquez for Beltran and cash deal. You then place Beltran in the leadoff spot. Getz/ Nix could then hit #2. The sox could then move Swisher for pitching.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 01:29 AM) Bobby's going to make around $3.5M in 2009, maybe double that in 2010 and 8 figures in 2011 as a 30 year old. This is assuming of course that he stays healthy and productive. The "young and cheap" argument can only work for so long. This is about trading a guy a year too early rather than a year too late, if Bobby suffers a serious injury or falls flat on his face some time in the next 2 years his trade value will plummet to zero but he'll still cost a pretty penny to retain in arbitration. I think that's the key. If the sox could get maximum value for Bobby now, if they think he might break down-provided the sox can get the bullpen held together by Poreda and Contreras [mid year] and another solid bullpen addition-why not move him is it helps the sox in the short and long term.

Very, very good news. This sounds like a Carlos Quentin type addition, adding a young slugger the sox can build around. The sox would just need to be close to the other offers, with Alexei signed for 3 more years. The impact of Jose shouldn't be understated either, with his mentor/ elder statesmen role to Alexei and potentially this kid. Though Jose is getting up in years, and due back by the end of the year, I could see him being moved to the bullpen and resigned to a decent deal. That could add an extra year or two to his career.

If the sox are thinking about trading Jenks [i'm not sure about the Beltran deal], I'd bet they like what they've seen in Poreda out of the bullpen. No one on the sox roster is near Jenks style caliber as a closer.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 03:02 AM) Crap. Look at his season game log. He pitched alot of good games this season. Amazing how some fans want to re-write history and trash him because he had a bad end to the year. He threw pretty well overall. Yet at the end when it mattered, he was nowhere to be found. I just think the sox will move on--esp after Ozzie called him out and Javy proved Ozzie right.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 02:48 AM) Javy is a guy who can eat innings and save your pen for the playoffs. He is not a pressure pitcher. That's a big reason why Javy can get a team to the playoffs. The sox know he's not a pressure pitcher now.

I agree with Neyer. Javy is a guy who can get a team to the playoffs. He's not a salary dump. But he likely won't be on the sox next year.

If the sox trade Javy, they should deal for Justin Duchscherer. While he's an injury risk [hip problem not an arm issue], he'd likely come cheap in terms of talent. Yet if healthy, he could be a #1 or #2 SP. Poreda would be insurance and ready for mid year call up.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 04:45 PM) This whole idea of picking up draft picks all over the place is all fine and good, but it has never really been a key consideration (previously) because we were always "reloading" on the run and have never really taken the time to try to build depth for 2-3 years down the line, always trying to win it all each year...maybe he's starting to realize (KW) that the depth from the picks (if they are utilized by the scouting department and the money's there to sign them) gives him more ammunition to make moves for player like Roberts and Beltre, etc. We aren't that far off...if only Borchard had become a reliable player, we'd have a powerful LH bat in the middle of the line-up to go with Josh Fields and Chris Young...at least 60-65% of our problems would have been solved. If the sox can add potential impact players like Beckham and Jordan Danks via the draft [as the Red sox have done to great effect, esp . with their young pitching] and make trades to fill holes, there is a lot to be said for acquiring 1 and done players to load up on picks. The sox would have more players of value to other teams. And players who could make a long term impact, and play for many years on the south side. The 2008 draft class looks very solid. And the new scouting team in place may be the cause. I'd like to see far more of the sox roster be home grown players in the years ahead.