caulfield12

The real debate isn't over the White Sox being a playoff team (which wouldn't have been possible without the Big 3 trades) in the AL Central, it's the really tough finishing or over-the-top moves to get this team to the next level...at least to the ALCS. Anyone who watched this team the second half, post-season or looking at their present roster compared to August 15th (especially where Rodon and Lynn were both consensus Top 5 AL Cy Young candidates still)...#5-8 seems a lot more realistic than #2, until they at least have addressed 2-3 of their five obvious issues. With 2-3 of those addressed, THEN you can start talking about #2-4 in MLB, but ONLY then IMO. RF 2B Back end of rotation Replacement/s for Kopech/Tepera/Kimbrel Back-up catcher

They already had a "handshake" deal to offer (but not accept) in order to get the pick back?

You really believe that Brooks Boyer's ability to market the team doesn't ever enter a conversation...? It's certainly not a PRIMARY consideration, or even in the Top 5, but it's somewhere on the list. Baseball is still the entertainment business, and position players are obviously easier to sell to the fan base. But no, nobody will be all that excited about Schwarber's addition because we already have 7 DH's on the roster. Although Sheets and Collins are the only left-handed ones, not counting Grandal as SH there (yet) unless they shock the world and add an everyday catcher instead.

Yes, there's the kill two birds/one stone effect with Baez, Soler and Schwarber in terms of the marketing/former Cubs angle.

Rodon, 2021, haha. Dye and AJ, I guess....you can argue about Pods, certainly 2005 better than 2004. Quentin was a trade, same with Floyd and Danks back in the day. Robertson held his own but certainly wasn't a bargain...in fact, most would argue it was a bit of an overpay. Then you have to fall back to "international free agents" like Abreu and Robert.

This is just tempting fate with all the pitching injuries across baseball the last 2-3 seasons....and almost zero depth behind Lopez. I guess the argument is we could still win the division with Stiever/Lambert but not both also in the rotation as replacements. Or at least tread water until the trade deadline. Guess we will get the old Crochet in the future pipeline too canard. We heard this year a lot about Moncada's contract exploding in the option years...feels like we really only have two years of clear window remaining unless we get new deca billionaire ownership.

We can also argue that he pitched 125 innings per year his first four seasons. Of course, the major injuries in 2019 as well as 3/8th's of a season in 2020 drive the overall numbers down. He pitched 132.66 this year and projects for a 3.8 fWAR and 154 IP at STEAMER. It would be pretty shocking if we got that out of Kopech next season. Certainly not a 4.9 fWAR like Carlos put together this year. That's a $25-32.5 million pitcher in today's/Balta's FA baseball economics.

Less competitors when we trade 1-2 of our 6-7 DH's (including Collins, loosely).

Marcus Semien (the whole defensive recognition for overwhelming offensive and above average D award), O'Neill (St.Louis), Adam Duvall...among the interesting names that won.

That will be the argument used against you....that you can't count on or rely upon it again in 2022. But there you have at least three organizations in Houston, New York and Boston who aren't afraid to put their money where their mouth is...there's no way you can argue that any of those guys are significantly less risky (and some, moreso) than Carlos Rodon. And part of it's also the the psychological side of things, the message it sends to your fan base...that we don't believe in our own homegrown player more than say, Craig Kimbrel, who was an absolute train-wreck with the White Sox and had very little if nothing to do with their 2021 playoff appearance. If there are DEFINITELY teams out there willing to spend that $18.4 million (and the Dodgers would be another, Giants letting DeSclafini and Alex Wood go have money to spend, along with Posey retirement)...there's not at least 6-8 teams out there that would be interested in Rodon? As it stands now, the only 50% convincing argument I've seen for Kimbrel is matching up with the Phillies, but there aren't many more teams, and the Phillies got by well enough at the back end going cheap/er, they just need to improve their 6th-8th inning guys and can spend a lot less than $16 million to accomplish that.

Based on 2021, wouldn't we make that same argument (but even moreso) about Dallas Keuchel at least 2 if not 3-4 years past his true prime with the Astros???

Re-discovering Lopez is just like finding a brand-new starter...or that Crochet will be the next Chris Sale, SOMEDAY.

Why would they allow Carlos Rodon to throw 99.7 mph in October if they were legitimately concerned about his shoulder? Or they already knew they were going to let him go without the QO well before the playoffs, and knew that there was almost no (organizational) risk on that low salary with no future financial commitment? Basically, that the player/agent knew the only way for him to get a decent deal was to demonstrate a return to peak velocity...? Because he didn't (seemingly) throw a ton of sliders in those 2 1/3 IP, which would be one obvious sign/indication of an injury...?

This whole thing is predicated on the White Sox being able to add one of about (at best) five starting pitchers who will likely be even more expensive than $20+ million. OR 2) the usual suspect Tier B/C dumpster diving for another veteran FA that ended up with us signing Eaton on the position player side. Of course, internal improvements and health from all the young players (and playing time, too) would be great. But it's not really going to drive a bunch of people on the fence and go out and put down deposits for White Sox season tickets. Kimbrel (instead of homegrown Carlos Rodon) temporarily on the payroll certainly won't. Of course, there's always the old Kenny Williams/Riverboat Gambler....adjustments/retooling on the fly in June/July philosophy.

What does Kate think about Chicago?

Loiaza is out of prison now...Q or Hector Santiago, probably. Convert Hendriks back to starting, close with Kimbrel...trade Kimbrel again at ASB with Hendricks back to closer. Lol.

Great, another 150-200 page tease thread....with food guys, Twitter, that Clark guy and Hector again.

Well, we read Kimbrel, Hernandez and Eduardo Escobar so well last deadline...might as well expect whatever is the opposite to occur just out of sheer luck. Which also means Rodon, Madrigal and Heuer all will inevitably be...terrible? Somehow I have a feeling we can't count on adding three All-Stars for 2022 unless they are already on the roster.

The real offseason won't legitimately start until Kimbrel is off the books...so we might be in for a long wait, especially if Conforto accepts the QO from NYM.

We all need to fly SWA more frequently to get Sox talk insider info...

He was a Top 3 starter in the AL the first half....so was Lynn. But sure, Contreras was only the best pitcher in baseball for four months over 2005-06 and it was enough to push them over the top.

Unless Jimenez, Robert and Grandal are all Top 10-15 AL MVP candidates next year, we are not nearly as strong as we were on August 15th...or Vaughn puts up a massive sophomore campaign.

They knew that Lynn and Rodon would both be leading the AL Cy Young race at the end of July...? Then we have no worries, we are basically the Giants going forward. Everything is currently pinned on Cease and Kopech being TOR starters, a Keuchel rebound and/or perfect health and continuing miracles from Lopez. The Braves lost two members of their rotation and pitched over it, for example.

With Rodon and Madrigal gone, as well as Fulmer, Burdi and Collins (likely), that leaves only TA, Crochet, Vaughn and Burger to carry banner for Sox first rounders... Also, next time the White Sox farm system breaks out of the Bottom 10? Likely to be at least 7-8 years from now, 6 if we are being really generous about ability to recover, and/or pessimistic about the length of the current window and divisional opponents.

Once every fifteen or twenty years move, like Jenks and Loiaza.