caulfield12

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?q...aft_type=junreg If you go back to all the White Sox 2nd round draft picks since 2000, only Jeff Weaver and Bob Wickman had career WAR's over 10 (neither of them with the Sox). Wickman was traded to the Yankees with Melido Perez and Domingo Jean for the unforgettable Steve Sax. Ryan Sweeney is 3rd, at 6.3. You do have quite a few notable recent 2nd rounders, including Beck, Danish, Erik Johnson, Holmberg, Jeremy Reed and Danny Wright.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) Which goes to the point of what are the odds that any second round pick the Sox might give up would put up better eventual numbers than what Granderson would with the Sox? (if he were to sign?) About 2-3%. I could care less about losing the draft pick, because we'll probably just end up with another Mitchell/Thompson/Jacobs/Thompson/Walker. I DO want to be able to take that money and spend it more efficiently 1 or 2 years down the line, though. Because we've all seen in the past with bad contracts for players like Linebrink or MacDougal, Contreras, Rios (for 60-70% of his time with the Sox, he wasn't movable), Dunn, Teahen, Keppinger....how fast that money adds up to the point where they're stuck between a rock and a hard place, as they were this past off-season. Prospects aren't ready or good enough....and available payroll doesn't make improving the team through that avenue (spending like crazy) a viable option, either. We have to thank God Konerko fell apart this last season instead of ending up with a final 3 year/$45 million contract at the end of 2012...and that Buehrle left when he did, instead of us overpaying him.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) In the most obvious form ever. Its a country, with citizens, you cant charge them to move around in it. Thats not even regulation really, no more than rape or murder is a regulation. Sure you can. In China or Russia, your entire identity (residence permit) is based in the city/area/province where you're born. If you want to relocate, you have to either get married or pay a pretty hefty bribe. Even in those situations where families relocate to find higher-paying jobs (think of factory or migrant farm workers), they're unable to enroll their children in the local schools because their children are forced to stay behind with relatives in their hometown OR they simply have to stay at home.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) Prisons shouldnt be privatized. Thats a legitimate arm of government. Its sad that they are, but it just shows how f***ing backwards are government's priorities are. You cant trust the market to run a legal system, just like you couldnt trust them to run a military. Its just the odd nature of those things. And yea, I like the National Parks. I do, I f***ing admit it. I dont mind that money for personal reasons derived from me just liking something. Protect that land, I'm with it 100%. It probably has something to do though with there being a million white trash families of idiots suckling off the state who I couldnt give half a s*** about adversely harming by cutting them off while theres only one Glacier, Yosemite, Mt Rainier in the world and it would be sad if it turned into a dumb theme park marketed to the aforementioned trash. By the way (and its funny that my throwaway comment better responss to the theme of your post than the past two paragraphs so if you want me to expand I will) this isnt creating a problem for the fijancially incompetent, its a solution to them. If people learned how to take care of themselves financially, to make their own decisions, to allocate their own money....that would be a great thing. But along with Social Security, you have those hundreds of thousands with 401-k's through their own companies, you can bet all those corporations and advisors wouldn't want people to manage things by themselves. So it's not just the government, although you can probably ding Washington for incentivizing (via tax credits) the whole idea of saving for retirement. The problem is that these suddenly enlightened people might decide that instead of going to a theme park or McDonald's, they also would be much better off (and their children and grandchildren) going to Little Big Horn, Wounded Knee/Crazy Horse Monument (another example where privatization isn't working) or Glacier/Yosemite/Mt. Rainier...and it would be overcrowded to the point where you wouldn't enjoy it and would have no choice but to withdraw from society like the characters in an Ayn Rand novel (or the Unabomber).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) Bologna...he doesn't know what these teams are planning to do on other fronts moving forward. There are plenty of other aspects to improving or positioning an organization than free agency; in fact, the impact of free agency has been decreasing because teams have been locking up their young talent early, eliminating them from hitting the market in their primes. He doesn't know the trade discussions that are occurring, he doesn't know the state of their farm systems as well as the organizations do, he doesn't know what plans they have for their current players, etc. He's just trying to drum up pressure for these teams to enter the marketplace and pay his ridiculous asking prices. At least he was smart enough not to mention the White Sox...or imply they should sign Viciedo to a contract extension.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) Luhnow was with the Cardinals for 8 years. It's better than a Buddy Bell endorsement. I would rather have an Ozzie Guillen endorsement than Bell. Heck, even Harold Baines, if he chose to actually speak. If Nick Swisher said something nice about Abreu, it would almost have more meaning.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Doesn't work that way anymore. Fine, then Brazil, India, Australia....China/South Korea/Japan/Taiwan. The young players have to develop a connection and loyalty to the major league brand, and that starts when they're 12-13-14 year olds. Find a way to build a competitive advantage. The only arguable ones we have now are Cubans (although that didn't guarantee us Cespedes, Puig or Soler), developing/targeting pitching and, up until 2013, the overall health of the team/training/strength and conditioning. We had Jerry Krause running around Central and South America doing what exactly? We had a Venezuelan "hero" as our manager and leveraged that into what?....only the Freddie Garcia trade. We never had a Venezuelan camp or academy like nearly half of the major league teams. We had one of the worst Dominican ones, and then the Wilder thing made it THE worst.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) Yes but to what end? This sort of comes off as him saying "I need to make more money. You team owners need to spend more!" There are certainly reasons teams like the Cubs aren't spending a ton of money on player salaries. I can't say if their current approach is right or wrong but I don't think bumping their payroll up for no reason is the answer either. I would say they're crazy to spend it on Ellsbury when they have Almora coming up in 1 1/2 years. Now there's no guarantee that he's going to be an All-Star (we heard the same things about Brett Jackson 3-4 years ago), but it would be irresponsible to spend hundreds of millions until you know exactly what you have in Baez, Bryant and Soler, and what positions they eventually end up in (Baez could be at 2B or SS, Bryant at 3B/LF/RF, etc.) They would be stupid to trade Castro at his lowest possible value unless they feel he's completely uncoachable. They would be stupid to offer Mr. Notre Dame a long-term deal and pay him like a front-line ace.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) Yes but to what end? This sort of comes off as him saying "I need to make more money. You team owners need to spend more!" There are certainly reasons teams like the Cubs aren't spending a ton of money on player salaries. I can't say if their current approach is right or wrong but I don't think bumping their payroll up for no reason is the answer either. And the Cubs would be much better off giving $125 million to Tanaka than Ellsbury or $100 million to Choo. He just doesn't like it how teams are spending money (not on his clients). Then we have the argument about a team's "net worth" or total asset value. We've had this argument over and over again with the White Sox, especially now that they're valued close to $1 billion and with all the media rights monies streaming in. Just because the Mets are valued at $2 billion doesn't mean it's so cut and dried that they should have a $200 million dollar payroll. Plus, they're still sorting through the Madoff/Wilpon mess.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) I would not. I don't think they will be traded, but I would not be shocked in the least if they were. I think the organizatoin is beginning to sour on Viciedo a bit, though I think they give him one more season. Ramirez is an expensive, older SS and the Sox have a couple different guys who can play SS at the MLB level right now. I honestly would really like to see Leury get a shot at starting. That would give us 2 positions below 600 OPS wise, then Beckham. Frankly, they're going to need a better option back than Garcia who can play everyday, and better than Carlos Sanchez or Semien (fielding-wise at SS)...the tricky part is no team other than the Red Sox has/had that kind of major league ready talent to part with. If they took all the savings from his (Ramirez's) contract and invested it fruitfully in the Dominican, Venezuela, whatever. Just develop a plan and stick to it, that's all we're asking for.

That was the year of Thornton's death as an elite reliever. The All-Star game implosion, then Thome.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/ramire...onnection-abreu I love how Luhnow gets brought up constantly as the voice of scouting wisdom on Abreu, because they were supposedly 2nd in the bidding. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement at this point in time. Now if Mozeliak said something like that.... And it doesn't mean they're actively shopping Viciedo or Ramirez, it just means they're not untouchable and Hahn is willing to listen. I would be pretty shocked if Viciedo or Ramirez is traded before next July.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) Actually the correct answer is that the money is better left with the people. The taxes we pay are for protection against stuff that wants to hurt us that we cannot fight individually (like Canada invading or something). Though I'm sure since all the roads are physically there and transitioning their ownership to the private world would be the most corrupt scene imaginable some small government people are OK with the status quo in that specific instance. But the entire idea of "best ways to spend money" doesnt apply. Theres no such thing, the philosophy says that every cent given to the government is basically wasted in the process while the broader public gets an extemely narrow portion it for commom benefit. **NOTE TO ALL THAT WHILE THE WORD "ROAD" IS IN THIS POST WHAT IM SAYING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY JOB AND IT DOES NOT BEAR BRINGING UP** You would be happier if EVERY road in the US was a toll road? What about every street in your neighborhood? If every single bridge had a toll to cross it? Every time you crossed state lines, another tax or fee? What redress would you have if a single company had a monopoly and controlled all the streets in your city or even state and you had no way (alternative routes) of driving without incurring prohibitive expenses?

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) Actually the correct answer is that the money is better left with the people. The taxes we pay are for protection against stuff that wants to hurt us that we cannot fight individually (like Canada invading or something). Though I'm sure since all the roads are physically there and transitioning their ownership to the private world would be the most corrupt scene imaginable some small government people are OK with the status quo in that specific instance. But the entire idea of "best ways to spend money" doesnt apply. Theres no such thing, the philosophy says that every cent given to the government is basically wasted in the process while the broader public gets an extemely narrow portion it for commom benefit. **NOTE TO ALL THAT WHILE THE WORD "ROAD" IS IN THIS POST WHAT IM SAYING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY JOB AND IT DOES NOT BEAR BRINGING UP** I never knew that Social Security, national parks or Medicare were out to harm us... This is where you argue that both of these systems should be privatized, right? And yet what is your solution for the 80-90% of the people in America who have no idea how to manage their money correctly? For another example, with the privatization of the prison system, it has become a race to see people locked up for the maximum amount of time for lots of petty offenses due to the single/solitary incentive to run the system being the profit motivation, not whether it's "good" or "bad" for our country as a whole. It works the same way for schools, where many charter schools in Kansas City (where I lived) were only concerned with collecting money from the government for those students showing up to class (they even paid them an incentive to show up because the financial loss of a student for one day absent was a lot greater if they weren't there at all, compared to giving up 25% as a motivator/incentive). Finally, Alan Greenspan was such a devout disciple of Ayn Rand...yet didn't he go wrong somewhere along the way?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) I always thought it was really risky considering they really wanted no part of Cabrera. The compensation ultimately was............................Josh Phegley. Not exactly like Wacha for Pujols.

Former NFL All-Pro tight end Todd Christensen of the Raiders. Wasn't even 60 yet (57). The irony is that he died from complications of a liver transplant (had been on the waiting list for 10 months), brought on not by alcoholism but just bad luck/genetics (he was a devout Mormon and never drank alcohol.) Lots of memories of the 3:00 p.m. Sunday NFL games from the West Coast with Merlin Olsen and Dick Enberg. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...aiders/3516843/

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) Playing the part of the ignorant devils advocate here, wouldnt a stadium in their county create a positive economic impact down the line? There has to be some sort of money that the team will be giving to the county in taxes that will help their financial woes, right? Unless there's something with the parking.... Let's be honest. Turner Field is essentially in an area that's similar to the South Side of Chicago in the 1960's/70's/early to mid 80's. It's about race, safety, crime.....racism, however you want to look at it. A majority of their fans are from the surrounding/outlying suburbs, whereas only 1-2% are coming from that area of the city. If you go back in history, the City of Atlanta in 1995-96 actually rounded up homeless people, drug dealers/users, veterans...and forcibly relocated them to an area outside of the city during the Olympics.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) Yeah, but at least back then they could release them in spring training and only have to pay 20%. You would have to somehow show loss of skill if Cabrera filed a grievance, but they could have had him hitting against the better pitchers, things like that, to keep his spring training numbers low. Would a judge/mediator/arbitrator really make a decision based on performance in spring training? That seems a little far-fetched, and a difficult case to prove. Cabrera's agent would have argued that KW and Ozzie had a grudge against him, were bluffing about not offering him a starting position in order to be able to collect a draft pick (of course, we all know that Ramirez turned out to be a better SS NOW)...that they were malicious in their attempts to box him into a corner, etc. They could have used Ozzie's comments in the regular season about Cabrera only being concerned with his stats, blah blah blah.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 12:53 PM) What ultimately would have happened had he accepted and won $11 million would be the White Sox releasing him in spring training, he then receiving $2.2 million and trying to hook on with another team. Maybe another teams gives him $1 million, but during spring training it's hard to see him getting much more than that. I thought the whole point of offering binding arbitration was to pick up the draft pick/s, but had he accepted, they were locked into whatever number the judge decided upon (and 75-80% of the time, it has gone in the direction of the player). http://www.examiner.com/article/a-s-sign-o...ft-compensation Would the White Sox really have eaten $2.2 million? I can't remember any time that has happened in recent baseball history...where a player accepts arbitration and then is cut by the team that just offered him. I knew that 20% was the most you could decrease a player's salary from the previous year....hmmm.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) Yes and no. The Sox could have released him and payed him 20% of his arb number in spring training. Looking for a job in March most likely wouldn't have netted him the difference from what he ultimately received. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...s&fext=.jsp Cost himself around $4.5-5 million dollars...as he eventually ended up with only $4 million with the A's. 1986 Ray Knight turns down New York Mets offer of 800K-The heart and soul of the Mets 1986 World Series champions and World Series MVP, Knight felt entitled to a big pay raise over his 600K 1986 salary. He also thought it would be a good idea to negotiate his own contract. He wouldn’t accept a penny less than 1 mil, Mets GM Frank Cashen refused, and so Ray decided to teach Cashen a lesson by signing with the Orioles for 500K. 1994 Jody Reed turns down 3 years/3.8 mil from Dodgers-Reed became synonymous with bad player moves after this doozy. To be kind, Reed was a marginal player coming off a good year who should have jumped at that offer. He rejected a three year contract offer by the Dodgers and wound up signing for the MLB minimum of $100,000 with the Brewers the next season. He did earn $750,000 of incentives for that year but still would have earned over $1.2 million more if he had accepted the Dodgers offer. He went on to earn 2.8 mil over the remaining 4 years of his career. 2010 Adam Laroche turns down 2 year/17.5 mil with Giants-Here’s a recent case of overplaying your hand. After being turned down by Laroche, Giants GM Brian Sabean turned around and signed Aubrey Huff for a 1 year deal at 3 mil. With dwindling options and the 1B market collapsing, Laroche signed with the Diamondback on a one year contract for $4.5 to $5 million. 2004 Nomar Garciaparra turns down 4 year/60 mil extension from Red Sox-After a very public and bitter divorce with the Red Sox (is there another kind?) Nomar decided to test the waters of free agency and signed a 1 year/8.25 mil with the Cubs for the 2005 season. He made 35 mil total in the remaining 5 years of his career after leaving the Red Sox. 2000 Juan Gonzalez turns down 8 years/140 mil from the Detroit Tigers-The king of all bad moves, even 10 years later this one has yet to be topped by any player. After being traded by the Texas Rangers to Detroit, the Tigers tried to lock up Juan-gone before he hit free agency. He refused the offer, had an awful season the next year in Detroit and signed for 1 year/10 mil with the Cleveland Indians the next year. He went on to earn approximately 38 mil over the remaining 5 years of his career - See more at: http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/worst-pl...h.OSaUWB2j.dpuf

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 11:59 AM) He would not be the first player to get bad advice from his agent and thus leave a lot of money on the table. Still remember post-season 2008 and really dodging that bullet with Orlando Cabrera/Guillen/KW not accepting arbitration...opening the way for Ramirez to play SS full-time. I'm pretty sure he ended up worse off, didn't he?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) If the top is more than $10 mil, and/or longer than 3 years, I will be upset. Granderson's not going to leave $14.1 million on the table, only to turn around and earn $8 million and $8 million the two following years (in your $30 million, 3 year scenario of a long-term deal). Or he might end up firing his agent for telling him to reject that one year QO.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 10:31 AM) With special guest referee Joe Crede. Just as Quintana is about to finish off Viciedo with some sort of super-serpent move, Crede attempts to attack Quintana yelling, "I'm number 24, b****es!" Crede, however, blows his back out and lies writhing in the ring. Shouldn't AJ be the co-ref if there's wrestling involved...?

Really disappointed by THE BLING RING... I think that movie was made mostly to give Emma Watson an opportunity to play the "bad girl." It's the worst movie Sofia Coppola's ever done, it would have been better off as an ABC Afterschool Special or on the Lifetime Network. It's not quite in the same overall realm of abysmal-ness as After Earth and The Watch, however. Next movies on the viewing list are Before Midnight, Machete Kills (yeah, I know what to expect from that) and Jobs (Ashton Kutcher biopic).

If Quintana's truly untouchable, the only players he really has to trade are Ramirez, Hector Santiago, Jeff Keppinger (a salary swap) and Jones or Reed. Beckham and Viciedo don't make much sense to deal at this point because 1) we don't have suitable replacements in the minors, unless they feel Semien's 100% ready and 2)you're not going to get much return or value, so you're better off waiting for 3-4 months and letting 2014 play out. And maybe if DeAza had someone really with a hard-on for acquiring him, but that would open up the CF issue all over again...can't imagine in a million years they would turn the position over to Trayce Thompson coming out of spring training. But DeAza isn't going to be the centerpiece of any trade. There's unlikely to be a satisfactory 3B on the FA market, so there's where you allocate your trade bait....the problem is that targets like Headley or Sandoval wouldn't be under control for enough time to make it worthwhile. So you're left with the final move of the offseason being a Tier B/C catcher...all those names available after McCann/Salty/AJ, starting with Ruiz (who might be too expensive and also prefer to remain in the AL), Navarro, Suzuki, Brayan Pena, Buck, etc.