caulfield12

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:18 AM) We actually agree here. I was actually at a funeral years back where these assholes showed up. Still I believe they have the right to say what they want, as angry as it might make me. It's one thing to be at a "generic" funeral. But the funeral of a child killed in a fashion and situation like this...? I know the crossing the line and inciting violence or something that will put someone directly into harm's way part of the law...and surely it's something they (WBC) are very careful to avoid, but with things being as touchy as they are, look what happened with Terry Jones burning Korans in Florida. That had real life consequences, although not directly in the area or city where he was located.

Some kids were shot between 3 and 11 times. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...ticle-1.1221800 Victor Cruz's cleats pay tribute to Jack Pinto, one of the victims of the Sandy Hook school shootings. ATLANTA — Every time Victor Cruz went back to the Giants bench and sat down, his eyes immediately fell to his feet and his hands. It’s hard to imagine anyone in the Georgia Dome — not his teammates, his coaches, the fans or the Falcons — were feeling as much emotional weight as Cruz was feeling at those moments. “Jack Pinto, My Hero” was written on one of his cleats and “R.I.P Jack Pinto” on the other. On the back of his gloves, Cruz wrote “Jack Pinto This one is 4 U.!” Cruz was paying tribute to 6-year-old Jack Pinto, one of the 20 children killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., on Friday. The wide receiver spoke to the family on Saturday night and discovered that Pinto was such a Cruz fan the family is considering burying the child in a Cruz jersey. “There are no words that can describe the type of feeling you get when a kid idolizes you so much that they want to, unfortunately, put him in a casket with your jersey on,” Cruz said. “I can’t even explain it.” The acknowledgement felt strange. The tribute felt good. And then the outcome felt bad. Cruz experienced one of the worst days of his pro career, catching three passes for 15 yards and the Giants lost 34-0 their first regular-season shutout loss since 1996. “I’m pretty down to say the least,” Cruz said after the game. “It’s a game that we needed and it’s a game that we wanted to play well in. Unfortunately we didn’t do that at all. To compound that with the tribute that I paid to Jack today, it’s unfortunate. I’m sad about it. As an athlete, we have to go through it and get over it, and as a person I have to keep plugging and understand that I did something good for a good family.” It was the culmination of an emotional 24-hour period for Cruz, whose personable nature has made him one of the most popular Giants in the last two years. He became aware of Jack Pinto after his Twitter feed started to blow up with talk that the 6-year-old had been one of his biggest fans. He instructed his fiancée/publicist, Elaina Watley, to find the family. It took her 20 minutes. She asked the family members if they wanted to talk to Cruz. They did. “I was in the hotel (in Atlanta) and as I was talking to them I was fighting back tears. You could hear everybody in the background crying as well. It was tough to listen to,” Cruz said. He spoke to Pinto’s 11-year-old brother, who was obviously distraught. “He could barely speak to me. I was just talking to him, telling him to stay strong, to stay positive and I’m going to help the family any way I can,’’ Cruz said. All those emotions came flooding back when Cruz went to write the tribute on his cleats and gloves – something that came to him immediately. “It was emotional,’’ Cruz said of taking out the black Sharpie to write his tribute messages. “I was fighting back tears to do it. It felt good.’’ It is not an easy thing for an athlete to perform under such emotional stress. “It’s tough. If anything you try to play for that kid. I’m sure that’s what Victor tried to do. You try to go out and perform,’’ said Falcons tight end Tony Gonzalez. “I don’t want to overstate what we do. It is just a football game in the end, but it does give people a nice escape to go out and enjoy themselves and have a little bit of peace.’’ As soon as the impact of the tragedy struck on Friday, Cruz did what most parents did. He grabbed hold of his 11-month old daughter, Kennedy, and hugged her close and tight. “That night I put my daughter in the bed with me and we slept together, even though that was a mission within itself,” he said. “We slept together that night and it was a good feeling and it was one that I cherished.” It has not been an easy year for Cruz, who is still grieving the death of his grandmother, Lucy Molina, who died in September. He does his post-touchdown salsa dance to honor her. “It’s been an emotional year for me, leading up to this point,’’ he said. “It’s just a matter of getting through it. I have a good support system at home. They’ve been helping me a lot with it. It’s tough. It’s a part of life. You have to go through ups and downs. It shows what type of person you are, what type of character you have when you proceed to go through it in your daily life. That’s what I’m trying to do.’’ It is a message he will try to convey to Jack Pinto’s family when he visits them next week and presents them with the gloves and cleats that he wore in tribute, and tries to help them make sense of something so senseless. .

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 12:48 AM) Yeah, they are all sick assholes. One bad thing about them is they include children in their message of hate. They make their kids hold the God Hates XXXXs" signs. They also do something that also angers me. Westboro announced they would picket the funerals of the precious little kids killed by the madman in Ct. Well, they are not a national organization. They are so unlikeable and despicable that they have no real national movement. So that means they'd have to drive or fly to Ct to picket and usually they don't go. So they get the publicity when they can't afford to fly there and do their thing. Now if they do show up, I can always hope somebody messes with them. It's cool their Website has been messed with by Anonymous. I can't get on it. I hate that organization. Bunch of bastards. Definitely where the line between free speech and hate crime/action becomes very blurry. Somehow, I have a hard time imagining the Founding Fathers wanting to protect a CHURCH that presents such vitriolic beliefs as their cornerstone. And you detest the idea of witnessing all those impressionable young kids mixed up in something that's coming exclusively from their parents and grandparents. Seeing all the cemetery crosses at the Branch Davidian compound (in Waco, TX), it reminds you of the human cost in childrens' lives often lost in that type of "cult/sect" situation. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/04/14/waco....vers/index.html Thankfully, what mitigates against a recurrence is that nobody believes Fred Phelps is God, except perhaps Fred Phelps himself.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 11:26 PM) The quidditch community is discussing possibly doing a tournament in Topeka as a protest of the WBC. We most likely won't though as it would only take one hot-head hitting a WBC bastard to make things really bad. I'll just let Anonymous destroy them. You can just see another Ruby Ridge or Branch Davidians/David Koresh situation developing. Seems they are itching for a confrontation, not unlike that Terry Jones guy in Florida with the Koran burnings.

Westboro Baptist Church Home Page www.godhatesf**s.com/ - 网页快照 - 翻译此页您已公开地对此项 +1。 撤消Web Site of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, KS. Pastor: Fred Phelps. God hates f**s. God hates f**-enablers. Therefore, God hates america and this... Unsurprisingly, their website now seems to be down. Greg lives not so far from their church, Lawrence to Topeka is just a hop, skip and a jump.

http://news.yahoo.com/adam-lanzas-mom-pull...cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3 Apparently, the shooter's mom did have a connection to the school and school district, after all. The aunt of Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza said the shooter's mother pulled him out of Newtown's public school system because she was unhappy with the school district's plans for her son. Marsha Lanza, who is Adam's aunt and Nancy's ex-sister-in-law, called her former sister-in-law an "awesome ... giving person." She also told Evelyn Holmes of ABC-owned-and-operated station WLS in Chicago that Nancy had once been a classroom aide at the Sandy Hook school. "She mentioned she wound up home-schooling him because she battled with the school district," said Marsha. She did not know when Adam had left school. According to former classmates, Adam had attended the local high school at least through part of 10th grade. Adam Lanza (pictured above in 2005) was 20 years old before he died on Friday — it was not yet clear as of Friday evening whether he took his own life or whether it was taken. His brother, Ryan, who was mistakenly identified as the shooter earlier Friday, described his younger brother as having a "personality disorder," either Asperger's or a form of autism, reports ABC News — but he hadn't seen him since 2010, Ryan told authorities, according to The New York Post. Neighbors described Adam Lanza to ABC as "odd" and displaying characteristics associated with OCD. People with Asperger's sometimes display "behaviors beyond their control," according to this med-help.org site. Though there is not much research on the connection between violent crimes and autism, one study found 15 percent of juveniles evaluated in a "forensic setting" in Sweden had autistic spectrum disorders. (Asperger's is no longer classified as a form of autism.) Another law enforcement official told Fox that Adam Lanza had a "checkered past ... troubled youth for most of his life," but CNN is reporting that he had no criminal record. http://news.yahoo.com/adam-lanza-think-kno...cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3 Adam does appear to have had a girlfriend who the AP says has gone missing, along with a friend of his.

The problem isn't medications. 50-60 years ago, we'd still be doing lobotomies frontal lobotomies on "hyper" girls. The problem is that doctors and clinicians still don't have much control over patients, in terms of making assessments whether they are legitimate or credible threats to society. It's still incredibly difficult to get someone involuntarily checked into psychiatric care. For example, we heard that there was one altercation at the school already this week, on Tuesday, involving the shooter. Clearly, the brother knew something was seriously wrong. On the other hand, we want to be a country of freedom/s. We don't want to have panels where doctors can decide who should or should not be taking medication...what the attendant penalties for someone who refuses to take prescribed medication due to difficult and often debilitating side effects should be, these are immensely complicated issues. Clearly, the first line of defense has to be the families and loved ones, but if there's a break in those bonds and relationships, there's no longer enough of a "safety net" to protect communities. There's much less sense of everyone in a neighborhood or community knowing each other than when I was growing up....now, it seems all the kids are staying at home and plugged into their electronic devices and the internet. There are no simplistic solutions here, no quick fixes.

I think this article basically encapsulates Greg's basic position... RSEDITOR OF REDSTATEComing Together By: Erick Erickson (Diary) | December 14th, 2012 at 04:37 PM | 335 At times like this we are told we must “come together.” When you think about, we don’t, as a nation, come together much any more except in tragedy. We used to come together as a nation during the Olympics, when we rooted for Americans. But in recent years we are too often lectured about the jingoism in rooting for America. We used to come together as we sent men and women in to space, but we can’t much afford to do that any more and we don’t. When we come together for most sporting events, we find ourselves divided among friends among teams. We come together as a nation every four years to inaugurate the President, but it is as bitter and divisive as every. About the only time we ever come together as a nation anymore is when savage tragedy happens. When men fly planes into tall buildings or gun down children or shoot up a movie theater, we gather, pray, and cry. It is not healthy for a nation that its only acts of coming together are acts of tragedy, or even charity stemming from tragedy. Our nation once shared a God who we all prayed to. Increasingly, the loudest voices in the nation are hostile to that God and those who worship him. The conversation at times of evil is immediately drown out by political opportunists seeking to drive their agenda. The news channels meditate on the nature of gun violence and gun restrictions or what other restrictions or laws can ever be used. We do that, in part, because in times of helplessness it makes us feel like we can do something. But we can do nothing in the face of evil until we confront evil itself. The tragedy unfolding today is not an act of the insane, but an act of evil. That evil may drive the shooter insane, but in focusing on the insanity we lose focus on the evil. There is really real good and there is really real evil in the world. Each time I have written that here on this site a vocal group of secularists and atheists have loudly chimed in to ridicule me for doing so. They’ll do so again. But in this small window America has a real moment to assess why it is that it is careening out of control morally and socially. In that small window, instead of discussing the politics or the laws, we should discuss the evil and the good and the God from whom we have, as a nation. drifted so far. It is not healthy for a nation to only come together at times like this. It is not healthy for a nation to come together at tragedy so far removed from God.

The aunt also couldn't understand the mass shooting. "Why these kids, why these innocent little kids? That just still baffles me," she said. "I can't understand why." She doesn't believe gun laws should be changed. "It's the person who does the killing, not the gun," she said. "I thank God every day that my kids have faith and know right from wrong -- and I'm not saying her kids didn't -- but you have got to give your kids roots." www.cnn.com But just to play Devil's Advocate, what are the gun homicide rates in countries that do permit guns where there are fewer people who believe in God? I don't know what the official rate in the US is (those professing faith or belief in God/going to church/mosque/synagogue/temple regularly), always thought it was right around 65-75% or so, something like that. Perhaps, for some, it's a logical jump to assume if someone doesn't fear God or "eternal punishment" that they would be more likely to commit an act like this, but there's got to be something more to it than that. Way too simplified. Morgan Freeman's explanation is just as spot-on. We live in a celebrified culture where bigger is better....fame is more important than wealth....where there's a rush to do anything to put yourself in the public eye. Growing up mostly in the 1980's, the idea that someone might deliberately make a sex tape as a "marketing strategy" to launch their careers was pretty much unfathomable. Now, you have to come up with someone even more outlandish, because of the sense of "been there, done that." Look at explosion in reality shows, for another example. Combined with the proliferation of violent movies and video games...these type of things tend to feed upon themselves, with everyone now wondering what will come next. Some will argue that, on an obviously much larger scale, 9/11 was the ultimate celebrity grab for fame by Al-queda....look how much money poured into their coffers from around the world for the following decade in sympathy of their crusade against the US, "imperialism" and "secularist values." Osama bin Laden became the most famous name in the world, pretty much. However, the fact that he took his own life makes you wonder if he really wanted fame in the same way that James Holmes, John Hinckley, Oswald, James Earl Ray, Jack Ruby, Sirhan Sirhan....might have courted. All of them surrendered and were taken into police custody. And Morgan Freeman's right about something else. I can remember to this day the names of the Columbine shooters, but none of the victims.

(Reuters) - Police released the names on Saturday of 26 people shot dead in the massacre at a Connecticut elementary school a day earlier, including 20 children ages 6 and 7, in an incident that stands as one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history. Six adults ages 27 to 56 - all women - were identified by authorities a day after a heavily armed 20-year-old gunman forced his way into the Sandy Hook Elementary School. Among the children, there were eight boys and 12 girls. There's another area that will get a lot of coverage. Killing 18/26 women/girls. Seems the violence was directed more at women...although you can make the obvious point that almost all of the teachers and administrators in elementary schools are females, so hard to draw a conclusion other than his anger at his mom possibly, and the possible connection to her working as a teacher's aide at the same school. Wonder if we'll get any more details about the confrontation that happened Tuesday at the school, and what could possibly have been done at THAT point to prevent something liket his from happening.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 03:43 PM) http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/15/...E8BD0U120121215 there goes the 'ban handguns fixes everything' argument. Now it's confusing again. Was the "long rifle" a hunting rifle we don't know about, or was it the Bushmaster semi-automatic assault rifle? Because the cries to get assault guns off the streets definitely won't die down as a result of this. It's even scarier to think he was lining those kids up and executing them with a rifle....methodically. Just can't imagine it.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) http://news.ca.msn.com/world/china-stabbin...-schoolchildren So congrats. Knives kill a few less than guns. Get rid of guns, knives next? Then bats? It's going to be interesting to see how many extra security guards most schools use on Monday, if they choose to do so. In the wake of those Chinese stabbings a couple of years ago, there was a visibly increased presence at the gates of all Chinese schools (not only the guards, but Chinese army soldiers). And almost all of the parents were dropping the kids off as well as waiting for them to bring them home. Obviously increasing security guards costs a TON of money, and how many schools/districts/states have those funds lying around for such circumstances? Do parents have a right to expect it? Would people be willing to pay higher property taxes to double the security presence at every school in the country? I don't think so.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) Rather than ask for you to be banned, I'll say, gee thanks for the intelligent response. I had a scholarship to Northwestern offered to me. I was accepted to two Ivy League schools. Yes I am really a stupid person. I said I might have not explained my position well enough, but rather than discuss it, you go into bombadeer Greg mode. Nice. Thanks. I don't even remember what I said on the Holmes case. This case, I'm trying to point out that those who believe there is a God believe there is justice not only on earth but in the afterlife. If more people feared that, we might be better off. I can't respond to anybody because nobody said what they didn't like about my post, just that I am a dumbs***. I am not dumb. My test scores were off the charts and I was worthy of Northwestern. Bombardier/bombard Just joking with you, Gregster. ALL THE SCHOOL SHOOTING VICTIMS WERE SHOT MULTIPLE TIMES. Just wow.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) Di they actually say this? because I read a piece that he TRIED to buy a gun and was turned down because his background check flagged him for something. No, sorry for the confusion. I meant this particular CNN reporter who was just on tv was able to buy an assault rifle in Colorado right after the Holmes/Batman shootings. He said they still have it at CNN...that he never fired it, just wanted to know how easy it actually was to get one in the wake of that particular shooting.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 02:33 PM) we haven't had any new laws after the last several dozen gun-fueled massacres, though maybe the targeting of such young children will actually change that. One thing you can GUARANTEE. If the son or daughter of a member of the House or Senate was killed inside of a school by a gunman, and they were a Republican member, things definitely might change to the point where there would be some political cover from the NRA. Obviously, I would never wish that on anyone...but you start thinking of scenarios after all the school shootings during the Clinton years, especially Columbine, the movie about it by Moore, more recently the Ft. Hood, Virginia Tech and Aurora shootings. Definitely, when the victims are mostly kindergarten and 1st grade students, that's a whole different animal. People perceive high school students and university students differently. Young children, that age, completely innocent and defenseless, being gunned down in cold blood....that's something that is MUCH MUCH more difficult to shrug off for any parent in this country (especially), this one is definitely touching a different nerve. Probably the most emotional for a lot of reporters for any event since 9/11 in the US.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 02:26 PM) Part of the confusion is the media's rush to report to satisfy the public's hunger for information. They just report whatever they hear as fast as they hear it. it was reported at one time he used a machine gun, 2 pistol, 2 pistols and a rifle, then the rifle was in the trunk. probably take weeks until we get the actual story, actual gun(s) used, amount of shots, etc. Then we can hear all the wonderful new laws everyone wants to pass that would have prevented this. If it comes out he had a history of playing violent video games, then those will be blamed. Mental health systems, budget cutbacks, Autism/Asberger's, that's getting a lot of blame already. Now anyone who has autism will be suspected of possibly being a violent threat, not unlike all Muslims after 9/11. The school security system, since inevitably there will be a ton of lawsuits just because that's the easiest target...and despite the fact that they just changed the procedure to where every visitor had to be buzzed into the building. Dysfunction and polarization in our country and government, not allowing both sides to meet in the middle and compromise on something that makes sense to both sides. Gun dealers/background checks will be blamed. The CNN reporter said he walked into a Colorado gun shop (he was covering Aurora/James Holmes) and was able to buy an automatic rifle for $800 on the spot with just a driver's license. Some will argue that the price of bullets should be exponentially increased, which will create a black market. Some will argue that above and beyond not having a past criminal record, there should be additional testing, like a psychological profile, Rorschach, a couple of other profiling tests (one starts with Minnesota, can't remember the rest of it off the top of my head, etc. Youth apathy/selfishness/self-centeredness.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 01:06 PM) He didn't even use the AR. It was found in the trunk. Almost never are these massacres carried out with full-auto weapons (less than 1% of firearm deaths in the US are the result of full-auto weapons). This is because the lower receiver for an AR with automatic firing capabilities is like $10,000 and requires lots of practice and training to effectively and accurately fire. This story has changed 50 times already. Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said.source, www.cnn.com The most recent CNN reporting was that there were 3 guns found inside the school. They wouldn't disclose which one he used to commit suicide with. It's possible that he had OTHER guns inside of his mom's car that he drove to the school and parked (and left inside the trunk)...which weren't used directly in the attack. That might be part of the confusion.

Another question that's going to keep coming up is why the heck a seemingly normal or nondescript teacher's aide would have any reason to possess a Bushmaster 223 semi-automatic assault rifle?? The principal who was killed recently oversaw the school's security system changing to one where everyone had to be buzzed through...she had 2 kids of her own, and 3 step-children. Also, the school psychologist, who logically was also located in the administrative offices closest to the front entrance. School shooter already had some type of altercation at the school earlier in the week.

Now Sidney Blumenthal (CT Senator) is saying that the Bushmaster 223 WAS used as part of the attack... Basically, he described it as a modified M-16, essentially. Also story coming out how one of the young teachers (Vicky or Vickie Soto) saved almost all of her students, whose classroom was located near the front of the school....but that they all saw her shot down right in front of them and had to run past the gunman while their beloved teacher was trying to distract him. I will tell you this, if this continues??? In 20 years we will be waiting 90 minutes to get into a church; 90 minutes to get into a movie theatre, 90 minutes to enter a hospital, it'll take 5 hours to get on a plane by the time you arrive at the airport; 90 minutes to get into the doors of a sports event. There will be so much security it will make your head spin. Greg, I'd say this won't change at all. Even with metal detectors at all of these places, it wouldn't prevent something like this from happening. When someone is fully armed and threatening, there's not very much you can do to stop someone, unless you're going to quadruple the number of security guards at public places around the country. And when someone who's familiar to the people in a public place comes there, it's even harder to determine if something is REALLY wrong RIGHT AWAY when something can be done to prevent his/her entrance and access to children. Information coming out that the suspect tried to buy a gun on Tuesday (but had an issue with the paperwork), apparently. Also, this whole idea of NOT SAYING or REPEATING the gunman's name, that's not going to work. And CNN just said that they actually had to use it, although some of their commentators have been arguing the media embargoing names in such a situation would actually do anything productive in the future.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 01:57 AM) Explain to me why every state that allows concealed carry or open carry have a much lower death rate due to guns than most other places do? This debate can go on forever. Hard fact is even with all this, they won't be able to take away the guns. Its pointless to keep going on and on. Also, just because you can carry openly or concealed doesn't mean people will. Its your choice to do so. source? Simple rebuttal to that is Canada, where there are many more guns per capita than the US, but the gun homicide rate is 20X lower, something like that. Why is that? Keep in mind, also, that very few hunters or gamesman in Canada would ever think to have a semi-automatic weapon in their possession.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 01:49 AM) That all goes to poor judgement on the mothers part... she knew her kid was troubled. She decided it was a good idea to buy guns anyway. Bad parenting there. He didn't live at home, did he? I thought he had roommates? Do we know when she actually purchased the guns? Maybe there were a series of break-ins in the neighborhood, or she could have even bought them to protect herself from her son, although that's probably not the most likely reason, as he probably wouldn't have known where they were in the first place if that were actually the case. Maybe the conditions of his mental illness (what we're all concluding before knowing the facts 100%) didn't manifest themselves until well after the fact...and maybe he never once showed any propensity for violence before this time (not unusual). Keep in mind, holidays/Christmas season always seems to be one of the most stressful times of the year for many, many families...especially after the 2008 financial crisis hit.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 01:42 AM) I know because I spend time with my family and I pay attention to them. Given people can snap.. but this kid was mentally messed up and they knew it and he needed help. If he would have gotten the help he may not have done this is all I'm saying. Just having a gun doesn't make it more likely people are going to go on rampages.. hell if he didn't have a gun, he could have made pipe bombs, molotov cocktails... what ever to do the job. Other than the Oklahoma City bombing by McVeigh/Nichols and the Unabomber, etc., how many times has this happened with schools or public buildings in the US? It takes a LOT more planning and sophistication than simply picking up a handgun or rifle from the gun closet or cabinet. The amount of technical expertise necessary in other types of attacks 1) discourages (aforementioned attacks) because of the time required, during which the person might have cooled down emotionally/psychologically, and 2) requires more money to carry out. Terrorists are more likely to use IED's or pipe bombs or fire bombs, but many times those are used to create a sense of fear and intimidation, rather than killing multitudes of people. Whereas anyone can snap and find a household gun in the heat of the moment.

I guess it's a bit easier for Bloomberg to go off on President Obama...since there's probably a closer split in NYC over gun rights. No matter how many times one discusses this issue of the right to have a gun as part of a militia (which was the context 200 years ago with the Revolutionary War and War of 1812), the Articles of Confederation (especially), where there was not one unified national military for the new country...the argument keeps going around and around in circles. One wonders when the "tipping point" will actually come where people start changing their minds on this gun control/gun rights issue.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 12:29 AM) To me this shouldn't even be about gun rights or even God... this more speaks to the care of the mentally ill. This kid was messed up and if they would have given him the care he needed this may have been averted. However, I know everyone has their agenda when these things happen. Another tremendous difference between the US and Asian countries, where there is a tremendous negative stigma attached to seeking any kind of counseling/diagnosis/psychiatric treatment. Not to mention the health care system (in China) doesn't really have a simple mechanism for taking care of these individuals when their families are unable to. It's also an interesting part of the ongoing US health care debate that mental health counseling is one of the first areas to fall victim to budget cutbacks.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 12:52 AM) I was just reading over in China there was a guy who stabbed 22 kids and one teacher today as well.. WTF is with these crazy mofos The big difference, of course, is that using a knife is much more difficult than a gun...and it seems all of those injured will survive, and few of the injuries are considered life threatening. Here in China, much of this kind of violence is economic-related. Perhaps frustration with the government, their lack of opportunity in the "new" China, usually due to lack of education...the cavern between the majority of China and the top top 10%ers, especially when many of the political elite reached those positions due to bribery/corruption in the eyes of the people, and not based on merit. Of course, the biggest difference in these two cases is the fact that it's absolutely illegal for a private citizen to have a gun, and this law is ruthlessly enforced. Police catch man suspected of injuring 22 studentsUpdated: 2012-12-15 02:40 ( XINHUA and CHINA DAILY in Zhengzhou) Comments(1) Print Mail Large Medium SmallPolice on Friday morning detained a man suspected of using a knife to injure 22 students and a villager at the gate of a primary school in Central China's Henan province. Min Yingjun, a 36-year-old villager, attacked students at Chenpeng Village Primary School in Guangshan county in the city of Xinyang at about 7:40 am, said Liu Qingdong, head of the county government's publicity department. The injured students were sent to three hospitals in the county. Their injuries were not considered life-threatening. The motive behind the attack remains unclear and the case is still under investigation. Hearing of the violence, many Internet users went online to condemn it in micro blogs. "It's raining in Guangshan now," wrote Li Kai, a reporter at the Dahe Daily. "It must be God weeping for innocent children. I can't understand why the suspect was so cold-blooded." It wasn't the first time students in China had become the victims of such acts of violence. Zheng Minsheng, a former community doctor, stabbed eight children to death and injured five others in front of a primary school in Nanping of South China's Fujian province on March 23, 2010. Yang Jiaqin, a former village doctor with a mental illness, used a knife to kill an 8-year-old boy and an 80-year-old woman and injured three other children and two other adults in front of a primary school in Hepu county, the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region, in April 2010. Wang Yonglai, 45, a villager from Weifang in East China's Shandong province, broke into a local kindergarten and attacked children with a hammer in April 2010, injuring five. He then set himself on fire and died from his injuries. Most of the culprits in these crimes have been middle-aged men who were dissatisfied with their lives and pessimistic about their futures, said Yang Yongchao, a psychologist at Zhengzhou No 8 People's Hospital. Some of them had become resentful of society after their attempts to improve their livelihood were frustrated, Yang said. Chen Wei, a Beijing-based lawyer with Yingke Law Firm who specializes in cases involving women and children, said certain Chinese schools, especially in rural and poor areas, have little or no security measures in place to protect students. "Some schools have no gate watchmen or security guards, which has the potential to endanger students," she said. "And malicious adults at times will try to get a reaction by attacking children, who tend to be weak and can't really fight back." If certain people have a conflict with a neighbor, they may try to get revenge by hurting the neighbor's child, she said. Others, if they think they have been treated unfairly, will resort to extreme measures to attract attention to their cases, she added. Chen suggested that it is safer for parents to escort their children inside schools rather than leaving them at the gate.