caulfield12

Carlos Marmol against the Tiggers, this should be good.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) Ok, I shouldn't have said elite. I guess I mean more like all-star. Now this nonsense about him not having trade value is pure horses***. He can't be amazingly talented and yet have marginal trade value, given his paycheck. Maybe the Brewers would trade for JUST him (Viciedo) for 3-4 months of Greinke. If I was them, I hold out for Nathan Jones and Mitchell, too, because 10-12 other teams will be in on Greinke. I just think it would go down with the Hudson/Holmberg moves as a short-sighted one that crippled the franchise, because I have no illusions of Zack signing a long-term deal with the White Sox on the open market.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:35 AM) He will be for weeks at a time I think...just not consistently enough to be an elite player. And there's only 10-15 elite players in the game. I'm not going to put him in the Hall of Fame or anything, but he's going to be a very solid contributor who makes 2-3 All-Star games for the White Sox before all is said and done. Nobody acquiring him would give up "elite" prospects anyways, because he's a defensively-limited left fielder. He does have a good arm for the position, but that's more important in RF. Still, when you look at our roster in 2015 and beyond, we have zero power there except for Viciedo, Barnum, Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, etc. He's still worth a lot more to the White Sox going forward than to another franchise. It would take a huge haul for KW to part with him at this point, after all the development investment has started to pay off on him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) He was spraying hits in 2010 too. He can't hit a good fastball. This poses a minor problem. I'm not saying he won't be a good hitter, I just don't know that he'll come anywhere close to meeting the expectations of you folks. He has the bat speed, more than even Frank Thomas, it's just pitch selection. He's more comfortable with sliders and offspeed pitches right now. For Big Hurt's entire career, he had a slider speed bat, but it never stopped him from becoming a first ballot Hall of Famer because of his great patience and plate discipline. Obviously, that's Dayan's weakest point, but, once again....he's a 23 year old still learning and adjusting. He has a full four years to go before he would even be considered to be in his prime.

What's his high in RBI's with the Sox? 65 or so? 70?

Contract time, AJ! He's definitely the back-up AL All-Star catcher if there's any justice in the world.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:27 AM) What I'm trying to get across is that he's extraordinarily talented at a young age...we all get that...I don't see him developing like most folks do. He's shown virtually no difference in approach since he was here before. In my opinion, I guess I'm saying he's very well might max out a a very young age. When he was hot, he started driving fastballs to right for singles as well as getting a number of groundball singles, and was keeping the pitchers honest. He also was laying off the high fastballs, and his K rate went way down compared to the first 4-5 weeks. Then he was picking his pitches to drive when ahead in counts, mostly sliders and change-ups. Now he has to make another adjustment. But he clearly had a different approach when he was going well there...it was obvious, look at his hit charts.

What was Beckham doing that time? He hasn't been one of our better baserunners since joining the Sox. Trying to protect the runner from getting thrown out at home?

Great recovery by Russell there to limit the damage.

Cubs giveth and taketh away. Two games in a row with late rallies for the Tiggers' offense. We do NOT want them getting that belief back, but it was probably inevitable. The Cubs just suck.

Thornton's slider got tagged last time out....just pouring fastball after fastball in there.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) Q needs to start working deeper into outings if he wants to take the jobs of the big boys His pitch count wasn't high, it's just that Ventura felt he was probably very fortunate to give up 10 hits and only a single run, and putting Jones in there when Greene was 2/2 against him wasn't a bad idea, it worked. In the future, you can trust him more, perhaps...but you can't blame Robin for the quick hook in a game we really need.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) For 20 starts? I disagree. 6 weeks ago, everyone would have thought that trade was the steal of the century. Now, not so much.

Really going to extend the bullpen tonight... C'mon, Crain and Thornton, we need you to come up big.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:58 AM) so do you pinch hit for Jones? Depends on what the first two hitters do.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:58 AM) We need to trade Nate Jones while his value is high Still down from his last outing. Would have been worth more a week ago, haha. Viciedo, Nathan Jones and Mitchell for Greinke...that's probably what it would cost.

Five 97 MPH heaters in a row there.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:53 AM) Early move to the pen. I realize the guys are fresh but I don't like going this early. Q didn't have a high pitch count at all and I want to see what he can do. Hopefully Nate can get the Sox out of this jam. But 10 hits in 5 1/3 isn't exactly fooling anyone. We've had some offdays recently, at least you can understand the move from RV's standpoint.

Let's hope Nathan can put him last outing in the rear view mirror. He's never pitched in this kind of a hostile environment yet, in such a key situation, not that I can recall.

Uh-oh.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) Not inconsistent at all. If you get rid of Ramirez contract and trade for Grienke you have enough payroll flexabillity to sign Grienke. A top 3 of Sale, Grienke, and Danks for next year would be worth finding replacements for Viciedo and Ramirez. Greinke will test the market. No way you get him to sign an extension before he finds out what he's worth to the rest of the teams in MLB. And it's going to take more than Viciedo, it would be Viciedo and Reed (maybe Mitchell, but I'd ask for Reed or both), probably. You can't make this trade without crippling your major league roster in multiple places, and the falloff at SS/LF/closer would negate anything you gained from adding Greinke to the rotation in the first place. Then you'd be left with a gaping hole in LF again next year, which you'd have to replace with either Mitchell or a free agent.

Might want to get someone up in the bullpen. But still less than 70 pitches thrown.

Maybe one factor could be nobody has a scouting report on this kid, but it's all pretty basic stuff. Especially the NL teams, they don't scout the AL as much, but every team has advanced scouts and minor league scouts, and they have video of all his outings. You keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the rest of baseball to adjust to Quintana, but it hasn't happened yet. Humber had his roll for almost 3 months last year...who knows at this point?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:38 AM) If all you do is trade your good players, you probably never actually win. I'm all for trading guys if you get the right value and fill in the pieces but I don't exactly know who the hell the Sox are going to get to fill the void. Shortstop is a hard position to fill and unless Beckham proves he can hit, he can't play at short. I can live with his defense at short if he's hitting the hell out of the ball, but if he isn't, he needs to stay at 2B. Escobar isn't able to hit enough to short (and is a downgrade defensively; not a knock on Esocbar, again, more of a compliment to Ramirez) and Lillibridge sure as heck isn't competent enough offensively to play (and again, is a defensive downgrade). And it's not like Saladino is anything close to a "sure thing" in AA. You make that kind of a move when you have a capable replacement, like the Phillies did when they jettisoned Thome to open up the position for Howard. We're NEVER going to get anyone both close to major league ready and capable of being an offensive and defensive force. Alexei's very well-liked in the clubhouse and one of the "glue" players on this team that everybody respects.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 09:35 AM) Wonderful. Get something for him then. Why would you do that NOW, in the middle of the season, when his value's lower or maybe at its lowest in recent memory? Do you really think he's just going to get worse and worse? This is solely based on the theory that he's really 2-3 years older than his birth certificate? His defense has been the same as ever this year, if not better. And project 27 rbi's in 60 games over the next 100. That's very decent RBI production for a SS, although obviously the OPS is very low.