caulfield12

That's the ONLY logic of not demoting Kotsay. We are winning with him, so therefore he can't be hurting the team. (If it's not broke, don't fix it, right? In which case, KW should have kept the 2005 team together...since he completely obliterated the "chemistry" of that team by taking Everett and Rowand out of the clubhouse, too. Not saying I necessarily believe that, just the theory out there.) It's almost like they are afraid to let Teahen's glove back anywhere near the clubhouse again, also. And actually, although Viciedo's missed a lot of AAA at-bats, I think he's gained a tremendous amount of confidence in his ability to be a big league player, and this hopefully is one of those situations where sitting and observing for most of 5-6 weeks has really helped, even he's accumulated less than 70 at-bats.

Maybe it's the American Idol problem. Really big celebrities don't feel comfortable criticizing because they might get booed or criticized themselves for being critical. OTOH, you feel your position is a bit more tenuous if you're in Rongey's job...part of it is simply you're forced into a position where you're "representing" the organizational viewpoint because of the nature of criticism in the post-game shows is quite over the top. In all honesty, it's a pretty cool job that 98% of Sox fans would love...and I'm sure were I in that position, I would do everything I could to protect it, too. It's just human nature. I remember looking back at the tape of a broadcast I did (color) of our minor league team and I actually said "we pride ourselves on our concecessions." When you're pretty close to the team and the players, it becomes very difficult to be objective. You have the choice to go the Stone and Skip Caray route and be out there with your criticism, or you protect your relationships at all costs and always "have their backs." The clubhouse is a close-knit community...it's even harder to get respect if you don't have a background as a former MLB player, at least a minor leaguer. I've seen quite a few people who didn't know where to draw the line because they wanted to feel like they were "part of the team," where it's almost that "in the bunker" mentality of taking it personally when your "friends" are being criticized, especially when you perceive it to be unfair or overly biased. In the end, it's easier to be "loved" than feared, so to speak. Writers like Cowley and Mariotti have gone out of there way to be critical, and it has resulted in a cut off in access or makes it much harder to do their jobs. Someone like Gonzales, who's with the team everyday, it's very very rare that he would be the type to write a negative/hit job on Mark Kotsay. Rogers can be more critical as a baseball writer and not a beat writer, but he's not as respected because he really doesn't have a finger on the pulse of the organization. Maybe it's because Brian Anderson (2006) and Beckham (2010) were cockier, and their situations were each quite different from Kotsay's, but I think it's just harder for a writer to blast someone who's failing...rather than simply underachieving. Everyone can see that it's the end of Mark's career, and he would be DFA'ed by 25 teams, it's just that he has played a role with our team, we're in first place, so the perception is that it would be cruel or heartless not to let him stay with the team...the closest thing I can remember is the controversy over Josh Paul/Chad Bradford sticking over Mark Johnson in the 2000 post-season. And I don't remember much being written about Wise, Erstad and Mackowiak either...it was obvious they were being overexposed or not the correct fits for how Ozzie was trying to use them. If nothing else, it was more of an instigation to look at possible controversies between KW and Ozzie, as we've seen the ongoing DH discussion for seemingly a year now, yet no solution in sight. Finally, I think many of the players/clubhouse people look at all the SABR and Roto League stuff, anything but the most basic statistics (now including OPS) with a bit of disdain...it's like the age old argument in Moneyball between Grady Fuson and Beane's lieutenants. I used to really be a "stats geek" and it's funny, the older I get, the more I rely on observation with baseball and the more I resist being told I'm wrong about a player because of their UZR number or something a bit esoterically-derived (although I certainly can understand the desire to quantify defense).

Quentin loves to hit in Detroit...

I thought Konerko was flexing his elbow after the throw to 2nd.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 06:41 PM) Jackson just needs to go after these guys with the fastball on the 2 strike pitches. He's hung probably 80% of his sliders so far. His slider for the strikeout was close to the perfect pitch. Didn't that last ball that hit the bag...wouldn't Konerko have fielded it for an easy out? Or was it going to get past him for a double and possible runner scoring from 1st?

When was the last time we had a starter who could throw 97-98? Colon in 2003 is the only one I can think of in recent memory...it would take him until the 4th or 5th to get up to that speed, though. And it seems he threw more often at 95-96-97 when he was with the Sox.

Can they haze Kotsay by putting a fake line-up card in the clubhouse and making him think he has the day off?

Are you Dave Martinez?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 10:22 PM) The Ranger seems to think that Teahen and Viciedo are not good enough to take Kotsay off this team. I think I made this point clear in a post of mine back in a game thread a couple of days ago. Mark Teahen will produce 7 more runs than Mark Kotsay given the same number of PAs for the next 58 games. Dayan Viciedo will produce 11 more runs on offense (and this is based on a conservative guesstimate). Both of those guys can play 1B, maybe not as well as Kotsay, but they sure as hell hit a lot better. That's crazy. I mean, sure, he can echo the viewpoint of the players, nobody wants to see him DFA'ed when the White Sox are playing so well...but the only way anything will happen is if the White Sox fall out of first place. We heard the same arguments in 2006 while the White Sox were hot in the first half with Anderson hitting in the 100's...that his defense more than made up for his lack of offense, that we had plenty of hitters and could carry one superior defender. Except now the argument is not based on his actual ability (at this point in his career), it's based on these mysterious words like "chemistry," "moxie," "grinder," "he's the best pure baseball player on the team," etc. Well, if he was actually the best baseball player on the team, he'd figure out how to take outside pitches the other way and not roll into 4-3 and 3U put-outs over and over again. Even Jim Thome could do that OCCASIONALLY. He has warning track power at this point in his career, but, if he hits the ball on the ground, Viciedo's a lot faster getting to first in a foot race. So we're left with he hits left-handed, can play first base pretty well, has a hot wife and he tries hard and everyone in the clubhouse is pulling for him. You would think we were running a "team building/motivation" workshop and not a major league baseball team. They've even got KW buying into the fact they shouldn't change anything. We'll see.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 10:17 PM) It's not that there has to be a whipping boy. If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that. I don't know how you can't complain about Mark Kotsay. He sucks at hitting and he's is DHing the most games on this team. Chris Rongey brought this point up on the post game show, how there always seems to be one guy the Sox fans hate...well...let's run down this list. 2010 Mark Kotsay 2009 Dewayne Wise 2008 Javier Vazquez 2007 Darin Erstad 2006 Rob Mackowiak 3, if not 4, of the past 5 most hated people on this team are terrible baseball players. Kotsay is a even worse version of Darin Erstad. Ozzie keeps running this guy out there even though he hasn't proven he could hit in the past 4 months. Don't blame the fans for pointing weaknesses out, blame the players for not performing and blame Ozzie for trotting him out there. For 2008, you could add Nick Swisher to that list... If Brian Anderson was capable of hitting the baseball, the name Rob Mackowiak wouldn't be there for 2006. The funny thing is that Andruw Jones is actually hitting for a lower BA, but he adds defense and power, so nobody even complains about his complete inability to hit sliders or almost anything coming up to the plate these days.

I think the only argument left now is 1) he HAS to get hot again, he can't be cold forever, 2) the White Sox are in first place with him playing a significant role, so he can't actually he hurting the team that much and 3) superstition, if Guillen changes something in the line-up radically, the Sox will start to lose because Kotsay's not there. I'm not saying ANY of these are logical, but they're the reality we're left with...

Why didn't we just start Pena? We just gave this game away before it even started, based on the way Torres has shown ZERO control in Charlotte his last 3.

Can we sub Viciedo into that game now for Kotsay? Thanks. Ozzie.

At least the Rays came out ready to play again tonight.

The White Sox are the only team in baseball with a pitcher who throws 87-88 MPH with absolutely zero control. Somehow, we miraculously escaped getting run out of the ballpark that inning. Which shows how bad DET is going now...they really are begging to be put out their misery this season.

Maybe we should have started Miguel Asencio instead.

You would think we don't teach our minor league pitchers how to throw strikes. UGH! Just asking for trouble. 7, 5 and 5 walks in his last 3 AAA starts for Torres...Harrell couldn't throw strikes consistently (but survived) same with Hudson.

DH's are such a pain in the butt to sweep... It feels like the 1950's and the White Sox are deliberately hiding Viciedo so nobody will notice him, fortunately we can't lose him like the Dodgers lost Roberto Clemente to the Pirates.

Mark Kotsay is just "unluckier" than Nick Swisher. That's all that's wrong with him, lol.

Cabrera now 0 for 15 in his career against Buehrle.

Kotsay has surpassed Erstad and Mackowiak for most annoying Sox season of the 2000's. Almost hit three dingers in one inning. This should help Torres relax a bit for tonight's 2nd game...if we can take the first.

40 homers on the road, 80 at USCF 100 steals/48 times caught stealing (not so good, but the aggressiveness really got to Porcello in the 3rd inning) 1st HR for Pierre since September, 2008 Frazier tipped Alex's homer over the fence...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 10:25 AM) Forget Kotsay, Soxtalk needs to DFA BigSqwert. Can he bat left-handed with power?

Can't you just erase the first post? Would that reverse-jinx the jinx or is it too late? Are we doomed now to lose this double header and be 1/2 game out of first place after leading since July 11th? Just kidding bigsqwert...although I could have sworn, whenever I listened to Farmer and DJ, the White Sox lost every single game...so I've taken to never listening to the Sox broadcasters since June 9th! i know, it has zero impact on anything, not even the Butterfly Effect, but I guess it makes me feel more optimistic about the Sox winning

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 09:23 AM) Pierre LF Vizquel 3B Rios CF Paulie 1B Quentin RF Kotsay DH Alexei SS AJ C Beckham 2B Buehrle http://www.freep.com/article/20100803/SPOR...n-bigger-threat Comments from "distinguished" sportscaster Farmer on the current Sox team, haha.